Did Wilt Chamberlain use an unrealistic tax demand to back out of the Ali fight?

[hhaehre]

This thread is all about a widely publicized fight that never happened

Apparently because Wilt found a loophole, those darn taxes. He could back out without setting foot in the ring, not against Ali or anybody else. A smart, if not somewhat cowardly, move by the basketball player.

[Controversial]

He did get a boxing license. He needed one to fight Ali. But what suicidal maniac would get into a ring with Wilt Chamberlain and fight him???

It had to be the World Heavyweight Champion because nobody else could possibly be a match for him... Ali told Wilt on national TV "I accept your challenge. As soon as I finish with a few more contenders, IF I beat them.." Ali always seemed to have another excuse for putting the signing off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

If he was as serious as you think he was then he should've fought, not just talked about it. If he allegedly found people to spar with then he could find opponents no problem. Lot of people talk about it, few back their words up. The most obvious publicity stunt in the history of boxing.

[vidal]

If he was as serious as you think he was then he should've fought, not just talked about it.

He'd have been dropped by the first half decent 'pro' he came up against and he knew it....... he'd never have legitimately earned the right to fight Ali and earned fook all in the process.

The whole using it as a tool to negotiate a better deal in his sport fits like a glove...... just not a boxing glove.

[littlepug]

If he was as serious as you think he was then he should've fought, not just talked about it.

He'd have been dropped by the first half decent 'pro' he came up against and he knew it....... he'd never have legitimately earned the right to fight Ali and earned fook all in the process.

The whole using it as a tool to negotiate a better deal in his sport fits like a glove...... just not a boxing glove.

yes, in fact any half decent amateur would get the job done, a ridiculous idea to even think that some basketball player could compete at the highest level in his first fight, so he once scored 100 points in a ball game huh ? doesn't impress me in the slightest, how was his chin ?

[Kalan]

If he was as serious as you think he was then he should've fought, not just talked about it.

He'd have been dropped by the first half decent 'pro' he came up against and he knew it....... he'd never have legitimately earned the right to fight Ali and earned fook all in the process.

The whole using it as a tool to negotiate a better deal in his sport fits like a glove...... just not a boxing glove.

yes, in fact any half decent amateur would get the job done, a ridiculous idea to even think that some basketball player could compete at the highest level in his first fight, so he once scored 100 points in a ball game huh ? doesn't impress me in the slightest, how was his chin ?

That's a load of Bullcrap!!! ... Chamberlain found instantaneous success in the NBA as any super athlete would. He wanted a challenge in an individual sport and Boxing was his target. In a team sport, you're only as successful as your teammates and coaches are talented.

The NBA takes super one-in-100-million athletes straight out of High School these days.. They don't NEED years or months of "practice" to be a good player. They're almost instantaneously successful at a super high level because they can run faster, jump higher, turn quicker, and burn opponents on offense and defense. Great fundamentals only take you so far. Great athletic gifts like a combination of speed and power take you a lot farther.

Boxing really doesn't get the super athletes. They're so heavily recruited by other sports from the time they're 11 years old. John Wooden said "Don't give me players with experience, please. Give me gifted athletes with loads of talent. I'll teach them how to play." He coached a lot of teams to national championships so maybe he knew what he was talking about.

D'Amato found it almost impossible to get world class Heavyweights to spar Chamberlain -- even when he told them it was mostly for defense and Wilt would go real light on them. You can get lower rung spar mates. Guys who have no athletic ability and need to pay the rent. They can't land a single punch and they're valueless. If they get popped with the lightest shot they turn their back or take a knee. There're very few heavies who make good sparring for a super athlete like Chamberlain. The few guys who would try -- if they got jabbed hard in the chest a few times or accidentally ducked into a jab they'd find other commitments real quick. A quick right counter from Chamberlain wasn't like a quick right counter from Patterson. It might end your week.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s ..."I accept your challenge ... after I fight a few more contenders, IF if beat them"

[littlepug]

find it hard to believe that any decent boxer would be wary of taking a punch from some one not used to throwing punches

[Controversial]

D'Amato found it almost impossible to get world class Heavyweights to spar Chamberlain -- even when he told them it was mostly for defense and Wilt would go real light on them. You can get lower rung spar mates. Guys who have no athletic ability and need to pay the rent. They can't land a single punch and they're valueless. If they get popped with the lightest shot they turn their back or take a knee. There're very few heavies who make good sparring for a super athlete like Chamberlain. The few guys who would try -- if they got jabbed hard in the chest a few times or accidentally ducked into a jab they'd find other commitments real quick. A quick right counter from Chamberlain wasn't like a quick right counter from Patterson. It might end your week.

Who sparred him then? There's absolutely no way Chamberlain would handle even the most basic sparring partner, even Tyson sparred with light heavy and cruiserweights who were levels below him. World class fighters soar with smaller and poorer fighters all the time. No way a novice can outbox a decent amateur let alone a pro.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

Not this nonsense again. Just a few questions that can't be answered.

1) No contract can be seen in that video, Chamberlain only pulls a pen out.

2) If Chamberlain was serious about being HW champ why didn't he challenge Frazier instead or even have a few pro fights? By beating Frazier he would've guaranteed a title defence against Ali and for a lot more money too.

3) If Chamberlain only wanted to fight Ali for the title how come their press conference was after Ali lost and the poster advertising a potential fight was circulated after Ali lost?

4) When in the history of boxing has a complete novice with zero boxing experience been able to fight for the HW title in his debut?

- Fair Dinkum, mate, your nonsense redacted for the common fan:

1. Never seen your sorry carcass before, only you pullin' yourself on these threads. Is ye daft?

2. If you were serious about these threads, you'd know Wilt answered to no one but hisself, least of your sorry carcass. Is ye daft?

3. Wilt wanted the hat trick: 1.Money 2.Title 3.Ali. The promoter printed fairy tales trying to recoup the fight and his losses. Is ye daft?

4. When in the history of this forum have you ever put together a logical, cogent post without soiling yourself? Is ye daft?

*** Decision is ye daft by a 4-0 shutout.







Ali faired poorly against other athletes. See Antonio Inoki, Gorilla Monsoon, and Lyle Alzado. He showed poorly against other awkward boxing styles such as Karl Mildenburger, Buster Mathis, Joe Frazier, Oscar Bonavena, Rudy Lubbers, YES, that Rudy Lubbers, George Foreman, Kenny Norton, Chuck Wepner, Ernie Shavers, and Neon Leon, ect, ect. Oh, and Cus said Wilt actually had a short ama boxing career as a youth and Wilt stated as soon as he turned pro with the Globetrotters trainers and promoters were constantly hitting him up, sorta like girls. That's what the best athlete of his era did along with picking up Jim Brown to turn him upside down to shake all the change out of his pockets. Had a whole bag of tricks he loved to play on doubting dafts ya know?

I'll take Wilt and Cus D'Amato teaming up over Ali and Dundee, but I ain't gonna ridicule others picking Ali and Dundee because I ain't daft like you.

[Kalan]

Who sparred him then?

Terrell and Patterson were 2. Patterson said Boxing needed another division for Wilt. Terrell said his jab was like a telephone pole hitting you in the chest

And littlepug must be the most naive man in the world... Any athlete who's competed on courts and fields as a kid has gotten into fights and knows how to throw a punch, which is the most natural thing in the world for a super athlete to do.. If you can fire a chest pass the full length of the court you can surely fire a jab.. If you can fire a baseball, football, or basketball, with great velocity and accuracy you can certainly rip a straight right. It's not a matter of mastering technique as much as -- can you punch or not???? ... Most of the time they can't punch that great, even with a world of experience.

You get a real good athlete into a Boxing Gym, and within a couple hours he's got a basic stance and can crack combinations on the mitts... If you're a very experienced coach who knows how to teach a super committed kid, in a couple months he looks like he's been boxing for years -- compared to guys like Tommy Morrison who always looked really clunky, and appeared to have 2 left feet no matter how much experience he got.

It's raw talent and great coaching... Joe Louis boxed for 11 months pro when he destroyed Primo Carnera -- a terrible athlete with 5 X the the experience.

[Kalan]

There's absolutely no way Chamberlain would handle even the most basic sparring partner

Who the Hell is this guy??? When Chamberlain first set foot on an NBA court he could easily whip any other player in the league 1-on-1.. It doesn't matter if they've played 10 years in the NBA.. He's got the combination of size, speed, balance, quickness, power, intellect, and moves on them all day and every day.

If a guy is lacking in athletic talent, how long will it take him to get to the top??? ... He'll never get there. He needs to do something else.

[Controversial]

There's absolutely no way Chamberlain would handle even the most basic sparring partner

Who the Hell is this guy??? When Chamberlain first set foot on an NBA court he could easily whip any other player in the league 1-on-1.. It doesn't matter if they've played 10 years in the NBA.. He's got the combination of size, speed, balance, quickness, power, intellect, and moves on them all day and every day.

If a guy is lacking in athletic talent, how long will it take him to get to the top??? ... He'll never get there. He needs to do something else.

Since when does your ability to play basketball equate to being able to box? The two are incomparable.

[littlepug]

Who sparred him then?

Terrell and Patterson were 2. Patterson said Boxing needed another division for Wilt. Terrell said his jab was like a telephone pole hitting you in the chest

And littlepug must be the most naive man in the world... Any athlete who's competed on courts and fields as a kid has gotten into fights and knows how to throw a punch, which is the most natural thing in the world for a super athlete to do.. If you can fire a chest pass the full length of the court you can surely fire a jab.. If you can fire a baseball, football, or basketball, with great velocity and accuracy you can certainly rip a straight right. It's not a matter of mastering technique as much as -- can you punch or not???? ... Most of the time they can't punch that great, even with a world of experience.

You get a real good athlete into a Boxing Gym, and within a couple hours he's got a basic stance and can crack combinations on the mitts... If you're a very experienced coach who knows how to teach a super committed kid, in a couple months he looks like he's been boxing for years -- compared to guys like Tommy Morrison who always looked really clunky, and appeared to have 2 left feet no matter how much experience he got.

It's raw talent and great coaching... Joe Louis boxed for 11 months pro when he destroyed Primo Carnera -- a terrible athlete with 5 X the the experience.

C'mon Kalan it takes years to fully understand the complexities involved in being a prizefighter, things such as footwork, pacing the fight, riding the storm when hurt and just general ringcraft are things that need to become a natural habit and natural athlete or not wilt chamberlain would be totally out of his depth against anyone with basic skills, a better matchup would be wilt v Freddie flintoff which I would call a 50/50 fight.

[vidal]

Audley Harrison would deal with chamberlain and have some spare.

[Kalan]

Since when does your ability to play basketball equate to being able to box? The two are incomparable.

They require many of the same athletic talents to be an outstanding and critically acclaimed, world class player in them.

Both need speed of hands and feet... For blocking, stealing, passing, positioning, rebounding, running the floor, and defending for Basketball... For jabbing and moving, power punching, blocking, and parrying for Boxing.

Both need strength and power... For rebounding, grabbing loose balls, positioning, jumping, dunking, passing, guarding, and blocking opponents out underneath for Basketball... Punching and absorbing punches for Boxing.

Both require cleverness and stealth... For positioning, rebounding, faking and scoring inside, stealing, bounce passing, behind the back passing, and shot blocking for Basketball... Feinting, jabbing, countering, body punching, leading, and drawing leads for Boxing.

Both sports can utilize height, weight, and reach if the speed, power, and athleticism are also as outstanding... Easier passing, blocking, rebounding, dunking, and stealing in Basketball... Easier feinting, jabbing, leading, defending, ring cutting, and center ring control control in Boxing... It's also a lot easier for a taller and rangier guy like Hearns to punch down on a short guy with shorter arms like Duran -- and it's harder for the short opponent with the shorter arms to reach the taller opponent, and he's often frustrated.. This is one reason the K Bros dominated for so many years and Joshua, Wilder, and Fury are all undefeated.

[Kalan]

Audley Harrison would deal with chamberlain and have some spare.

Fraudley would get ripped out immediately... It would be a complete joke.

[Kalan]

C'mon Kalan it takes years to fully understand the complexities involved in being a prizefighter, things such as footwork, pacing the fight, riding the storm when hurt and just general ringcraft are things that need to become a natural habit

That's total bullcrap... Joe Louis was a raw swinger when he started pro.. but with 11 months of professional experience his skills were such that he made Primo Carnera look like a neophyte and a helpless giant... Just off a couple months of training with Jack Blackburn he had the athletic gifts to beat wide open targets like Bear and Carnera. He didn't need years to master anything.. Boxing isn't rocket science. Louis washed out early because he screwed around a lot.

Mike Tyson was Heavyweight Champion 18 months after turning professional... He was a failure as an amateur and had raw skills... But at 20 years of age, with his head into training it didn't take him years to become Heavyweight Champion... What lost it for him is FO behavior 3 years later.

[Controversial]

Since when does your ability to play basketball equate to being able to box? The two are incomparable.

They require many of the same athletic talents to be an outstanding and critically acclaimed, world class player in them.

Both need speed of hands and feet... For blocking, stealing, passing, positioning, rebounding, running the floor, and defending for Basketball... For jabbing and moving, power punching, blocking, and parrying for Boxing.

Both need strength and power... For rebounding, grabbing loose balls, positioning, jumping, dunking, passing, guarding, and blocking opponents out underneath for Basketball... Punching and absorbing punches for Boxing.

Both require cleverness and stealth... For positioning, rebounding, faking and scoring inside, stealing, bounce passing, behind the back passing, and shot blocking for Basketball... Feinting, jabbing, countering, body punching, leading, and drawing leads for Boxing.

Both sports can utilize height, weight, and reach if the speed, power, and athleticism are also as outstanding... Easier passing, blocking, rebounding, dunking, and stealing in Basketball... Easier feinting, jabbing, leading, defending, ring cutting, and center ring control control in Boxing... It's also a lot easier for a taller and rangier guy like Hearns to punch down on a short guy with shorter arms like Duran -- and it's harder for the short opponent with the shorter arms to reach the taller opponent, and he's often frustrated.. This is one reason the K Bros dominated for so many years and Joshua, Wilder, and Fury are all undefeated.

None of these attributes guarantees success. Plenty of guys have had tremendous physical and athletic advantages and achieved nothing. Some guys can just fight naturally and have no outstanding athleticism. The proof is always in the pudding, you judge someone on their success and ability to fight and Chamberlain never fought. That's because he was was either useless, scared, uninterested or all three. My money's on all three.

[Kalan]

None of these attributes guarantees success. Plenty of guys have had tremendous physical and athletic advantages and achieved nothing. Some guys can just fight naturally and have no outstanding athleticism

Nothing guarantees success if you don't put in the work... And not one of those attributes alone can guarantee success... But if you have ALL of those attributes you might became a superstar or the greatest athlete on the planet if you put in the work... Chamberlain had phenomenal reflexes, vision, and everything else... If Ali thought he could beat Chamberlain he would have signed the deal to fight him... as it is Chamberlain begged Ali for months to sign a contract..

Who does TV interviews and Dog & Pony shows for a fight that they haven't signed for and REFUSES to sign for???? Somebody who's scared to death.

Who makes such a stupid excuse when they're hyping a fight: "I accept your challenge... After I finish with a few more contenders, IF I beat them.."

Look... Be real and be honest... Ali is making excuses here... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s

[Controversial]

None of these attributes guarantees success. Plenty of guys have had tremendous physical and athletic advantages and achieved nothing. Some guys can just fight naturally and have no outstanding athleticism

Nothing guarantees success if you don't put in the work... And not one of those attributes alone can guarantee success... But if you have ALL of those attributes you might became a superstar or the greatest athlete on the planet if you put in the work...

Exactly nothing guarantee success and Chamberlain put no work into boxing either.

[Kalan]

Exactly nothing guarantee success and Chamberlain put no work into boxing either

Chamberlain sure as Hell put work into it.. Hard work, commitment, and great talent guarantee success -- and that's why Ali refused to sign.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s ..."I accept your challenge... after I finish with a few more contenders, IF I beat them."

Weasel words from Ali... Admit it.

Chamberlain is the guy who secured Cus D'Amato to train him and put him through the paces to assess his talent for Boxing and his ability to beat Ali. Wilt was interested in Boxing since he was a kid, because he was a formidable scraper who other kids and athletes wouldn't mess with. A lot of forwards and centers who he banged heads with suggested he would make an unbeatable boxer.. In Bill Russell's autobiography he talks about how feared Chamberlain was, and when pushed to the brink he was dangerous. Russell was Clyde Lovellette's teammate. When Lovellette challenged Chamberlain to a fight and on the basketball court Wilt leveled him with one punch -- Russell walked up to Chamberlain and said "I don't blame you. He's had it coming for a long time Wilt." Russell said in his book "Everybody in the NBA found out what they wanted to know. Wilt can punch."

[hhaehre]

Louis washed out early because he screwed around a lot.

Yeah, what a shame that was. If only Louis had been more serious about his boxing and lived a cleaner life, who knows how long he would have stayed champion. I actually believe he could have been the longest reigning hw champion of all time, what a waste.

[Controversial]

Exactly nothing guarantee success and Chamberlain put no work into boxing either

Chamberlain sure as Hell put work into it.. Hard work, commitment, and great talent guarantee success -- and that's why Ali refused to sign.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mF57P1uUG0s ..."I accept your challenge... after I finish with a few more contenders, IF I beat them."

Weasel words from Ali... Admit it.

Chamberlain is the guy who secured Cus D'Amato to train him and put him through the paces to assess his talent for Boxing and his ability to beat Ali. Wilt was interested in Boxing since he was a kid, because he was a formidable scraper who other kids and athletes wouldn't mess with. A lot of forwards and centers who he banged heads with suggested he would make an unbeatable boxer.. In Bill Russell's autobiography he talks about how feared Chamberlain was, and when pushed to the brink he was dangerous. Russell was Clyde Lovellette's teammate. When Lovellette challenged Chamberlain to a fight and on the basketball court Wilt leveled him with one punch -- Russell walked up to Chamberlain and said "I don't blame you. He's had it coming for a long time Wilt." Russell said in his book "Everybody in the NBA found out what they wanted to know. Wilt can punch."

You can come up with all the stats, praise, rumours, tales and hype you want, it means nothing. The only proof is seeing how someone actually fights, how they take a punch etc.. Chamberlain never fought so all this talk that he was a great fighter is all fantasy. No novice has ever beaten a world class HW in a professional fight so the odds are stacked against him and he knew it. I'm no fan of Ali but he would've whupped poor old Wilt.

[Kalan]

Never EVER... Ali knew he was mince meat if he fought Chamberlain... That's why he said, "After I finish with a few more contenders... IF I beat them"

Wilt only wanted to know how long it would take for Ali to sign the contract... "Don't rush things" ... "But you can't tell me how long can you?"

That's not "stats, praise, rumours, tales and hype" that's a cold, hard fact... Ali wouldn't sign to fight Chamberlain.

[Controversial]

Never EVER... Ali knew he was mince meat if he fought Chamberlain... That's why he said, "After I finish with a few more contenders... IF I beat them"

Wilt only wanted to know how long it would take for Ali to sign the contract... "Don't rush things" ... "But you can't tell me how long can you?"

That's not "stats, praise, rumours, tales and hype" that's a cold, hard fact... Ali wouldn't sign to fight Chamberlain.

And Wilf pulling out when he heard tiiiiimbeer is also a cold hard fact.

[Kalan]

That was pure Arum BS... Wilt pushed his right fist right into Ali's face and warned, "Watch it. I'll knock your block off." Ali started behaving.

Just like McGregor totally owed Mayweather at their Toronto press conference... You had Mayweather apologizing to Dana White and being very meek.

Couldn't believe that sheet... Floyd acting like a little kid and his opponent has never even been in a boxing match and is a massive underdog.