Would Mike Tyson be the #1 boxing icon ever

[Jip]

If he would have focused on boxing?

The death of cus, who guided him. The millions. Don king. This b;?"#h who put him in jail.

Lets say he would have continued to train like in the 80s and had no jail time, no headaches outside the ring, would he have surpassed ali the boxing global icon. With bowe, moorer, foreman, holyfield, lewis etc as potential opponents?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He was focused on Boxing. Mike did all he was capable of. He had amazing physical gifts but a very low ring IQ. He couldn't adapt or even think in there. For a short fighter he was poor on the inside. Great fighter, just never a guy that could be on the level of a Holyfield.

[RScarf1]

If Cus did not die when he did, Tyson's career would have been a lot better. Him dying was the beginning of the end. His career dragged on after that mostly because of the mediocre opponents he fought after getting out of jail. If Tyson would have fought Holyfield in 1991 like he was supposed to, I don't know if he would have won even if Cus was alive. Don King delayed the fight as long as he could when Holyfield was the number one contender of the WBC, WBA, and IBF. Then Tyson lost to Douglas.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Tyson could have Cus, Futch, Blackburn, 10 Rooney's and God in his corner and Evander would have kicked his ass.

[Tarkus]

I think he already is.

[Best Coast]

Tyson could have Cus, Futch, Blackburn, 10 Rooney's and God in his corner and Evander would have kicked his ass.

Good one!! Always good to see the Tyson nuthuggers brought down to earth!!

[Best Coast]

If he would have focused on boxing?

The death of cus, who guided him. The millions. Don king. This b;?"#h who put him in jail.

Lets say he would have continued to train like in the 80s and had no jail time, no headaches outside the ring, would he have surpassed ali the boxing global icon. With bowe, moorer, foreman, holyfield, lewis etc as potential opponents?

Tyson was never the total package. Awesome physical specimen but he was the anti-Mayweather/anti-Crawford. I use those 2 because they are great current examples of fighters who can adjust their game plan as a fight unfolds. Tyson could never do that. He also had NO mental toughness just like his little homie Zab Judah

Watch the ring entrance of Zab Judah to the Tszyu fight. Tyson is the one chirping in Zab's ear as they walk into the ring. He imparted his front-running tendencies to Zab, who had Kostya in major trouble but melted down in just a few minutes. Mayweather described Zab before their fight as a "frontrunner" than Zab proceeded to give a textbook demonstration of what a frontrunner is.

Zab was actually beating Floyd at his own game in the first few rounds but when Floyd adjusted Zab couldnt cope. That's why he fouled Floyd in the later rounds, a milder version of Tyson's ear bite of Holyfield. Tyson & Judah were peas in a pod. Both phenomenal physical talents (Tyson with his power/Zab with his speed) but both relied exclusively on their physical gifts and never developed the mental toughness/ring generalship/boxing IQ to be the total package, therefore both were exposed multiple times!!

BTW the reason Tyson got convicted of rape is not because of some b****. What sealed Tyson's fate in the courtroom was medical evidence of forced entry on the girl's vagina!! That's what rape IS...forcing sex on someone who is resisting.

All your excuses on Tyson's behalf only expose you as a shallow Tyson nuthugger. I have personally known dozens if not hundreds, but you're the first one I've come across in a while.
Pardon my rant...nothing personal. You just reminded me of too many people I've had arguments with over the years.

[Ossyrules]

He was focused on Boxing. Mike did all he was capable of. He had amazing physical gifts but a very low ring IQ. He couldn't adapt or even think in there. For a short fighter he was poor on the inside. Great fighter, just never a guy that could be on the level of a Holyfield.

Tysons focus and dedication declined a LOT following Cus D'amato. Some of your post is true, but I'd disagree with the first sentence.

[gregor]

Tyson was never the total package.

True, but the question was about becoming an icon, not being complete package

We also probably agree Cus would not be an answer to all the issues Tyson had both on the ring and outside it, but one still may imagine a scenario when he finishes as in icon. Let's say he just stays out of jail (and total bankrupcy), wins over not so dedicated Douglas a couple of months earlier or later, and Holy fight comes during one of many Holyfield's nights off. Bowe with his lack of defence was IMHO always tailor-made for Tyson.

Add some "usual" opponents dispatched in his "usual" way as well, and he is 30+, with a record like 55-0. He finally loses (obviously, this means he got old overnight ), probably tries a comeback till another loss... but anyway, without legal trouble and perfect record in his prime, his image and ATG rating is much higher than in reality.

A bit of stretch maybe, but not completely unrealistic.

[JeanClaude Van Damme]

He was a technician if there ever was one. A true student of the sport.

I'd like to see any of you jabronies even remember how to tie your shoelaces after doing that much coke. He also had STD's in half of his major title defenses.

[JeanClaude Van Damme]

BTW the reason Tyson got convicted of rape is not because of some b****. What sealed Tyson's fate in the courtroom was medical evidence of forced entry on the girl's vagina!! That's what rape IS...forcing sex on someone who is resisting.

Nope.

Dr. [Thomas] Richardson, the physician at the hospital who examined [Washington], said there was a small abrasion of the inner vaginal wall. That was all. It was my opinion that we should have used Dr. Richardson to establish that, from the bottom of her feet to the top of her head, he did not find any bruises or press marks—try to dissipate that this contact was so vicious. But Vince tried the case the way Vince wanted to try the case.
http://www.indianapolismonthly.com/feat ... ars-later/

All your excuses on Tyson's behalf only expose you as a shallow Tyson nuthugger. I have personally known dozens if not hundreds, but you're the first one I've come across in a while.
Pardon my rant...nothing personal. You just reminded me of too many people I've had arguments with over the years.

Don't let this account get zapped, too.

[Ossyrules]

As for the OP it impossible to say if he'd be number 1 icon, but it's not unrealistic to say it was possible. The youngest undisputed heavyweight champ of all time, his personality and fighting style attracted people to boxing in a way all his rivals, Holyfield, Lewis etc couldn't do. He was box office star

[Thomastearns]

As far as boxing icons go he's up there with Dempsey and Ali.

More books, more films, more cultural impact than anyone else in the last 30 years.

[RScarf1]

Don King and Bob Arum knew that Holyfield was exceptional, but they tried to portray that he was not as good as he really was. I remember when Arum and King were on television and making fun of Holyfield's opponent Seamus McDonagh. King and Arum were sitting side by side and being interviewed. Even though McDonagh was rated by one of the major sanctioning bodies, Arum made fun of Holyfield's opponent while King laughed. The reason why they were doing this is because they wanted to portray Tyson's opponent Henry Tillman as a good opponent even though he was really worse than McDonagh. Tillman was not rated by any sanctioning body. Tillman was Tyson's first opponent after losing to Buster Douglas. Tillman fought Holyfield as a cruiserweight and lost by TKO. The only thing Arum and King could say that was good about Tillman is that he beat Tyson twice in the amateurs. Obviously, Tyson improved since then and Tillman's pro career was unremarkable. Tyson knocked Tillman out in the first round. I remember when there was talk about Tyson fighting George Foreman. Foreman went the distance against Holyfield in 1991 and knocked out Michael Moorer in 1994 to win the heavyweight titles. In 1995, Tyson could have fought Foreman as his first opponent after getting out of prison, but instead he fought Peter McNeeley and Tyson won in the first round.

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

- Ah, the monthly clarion call sounding for all the playground sissies to gather to moan over Mr Field beating(butting) their bully nightmare into submission.

Yeah, your retired hard heart hero got a Jesus shot as we say in texas to beat a mentally deranged fighter cursed with a lifetime bipolar illness requiring very strong pyschotropic meds, whoooopee cushions all.

Tyson: 50-6, 44 ko///12-4, 10 ko title record as the first of two(Wlad) to unify in the multi belt era...

Field: 26-10-2, 30 % ko ratio///10-7-2, 4 ko title record/most title losses in the heavy div.

Tyson already # 1 icon a case study in not only boxing's exploitation, but also the sick cultural exploitation of the mentally ill. Yeah, but sissies gonna moan, so moan it loud and moan it proud for Jesus shot Field. Insert moans here________________!

[Sequitorian]

Mike Tyson couldn't box his way out of a paper bag ...

[Jip]

He was focused on Boxing. Mike did all he was capable of. He had amazing physical gifts but a very low ring IQ. He couldn't adapt or even think in there. For a short fighter he was poor on the inside. Great fighter, just never a guy that could be on the level of a Holyfield.

That simply aint true. He wasnt focused on boxing at all at the end. In the douglus fight he was far away from his prime shape although in terms of age he still was prime. Than the 4 year jail time. He was ficused on $ & vagina.

He was prime in the 80s and still young of age in the 90s, had he stay prime up or always in shape than regardless of him being a slow thinker he would beaten bowe, moorer or foreman. Holyfield would always been a tough fight for him, but refs also need to take points away.

[man]

it is difficult to say. in the end he
was a puncher, who was short for
his weight class. so, if he meets a
taller boxer, it is hard for him to
dominate with power.

he had three close to prime losses,
one to buster, two to evander. in
case he lives a reasonable life with
great team around, he wins against
douglas. holy is a different animal.

one of the things tyson had lost after
prison was solid defence. in my view
his best defensive tool in his prime
had been fast upper body movement.
post prime - after a round or two -
that was totally gone and he became
a stationary, easily punched and thus
frustrated target.

so i think he would do better against
evander, possible win one out of three
and closely lose the other two.

overall perfect tyson is ATG top five,
but not one.

[Badhusker]

Mike Tyson? You have got to be kidding me. #1 Icon.....ever?

Tyson had a great career while it lasted, and was awesome in his prime. Its funny that fans come up with more excuses than he does himself for his downfall. His character is one that I would put far below Tyson Fury and Andrian Broner. He actually makes them look like Saints. Whether it is mental illness or long time drug abuse effects, I'm not qualified to say, but he is a poor icon for the sport, and certainly no role model.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He was focused on Boxing. Mike did all he was capable of. He had amazing physical gifts but a very low ring IQ. He couldn't adapt or even think in there. For a short fighter he was poor on the inside. Great fighter, just never a guy that could be on the level of a Holyfield.

Tysons focus and dedication declined a LOT following Cus D'amato. Some of your post is true, but I'd disagree with the first sentence.

He ran amuck when he was with cus.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He was focused on Boxing. Mike did all he was capable of. He had amazing physical gifts but a very low ring IQ. He couldn't adapt or even think in there. For a short fighter he was poor on the inside. Great fighter, just never a guy that could be on the level of a Holyfield.

That simply aint true. He wasnt focused on boxing at all at the end. In the douglus fight he was far away from his prime shape although in terms of age he still was prime. Than the 4 year jail time. He was ficused on $ & vagina.

He was prime in the 80s and still young of age in the 90s, had he stay prime up or always in shape than regardless of him being a slow thinker he would beaten bowe, moorer or foreman. Holyfield would always been a tough fight for him, but refs also need to take points away.

Straight out of the Tyson apologists playbook.

[Counter-puncher]

The most ragged, well-leafed playbook in recent boxing history.

The 'but for Cus dying', 'but for that bitch Washington/Givens and her mom' chapters are particularly worn and dog-eared.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

The most ragged, well-leafed playbook in recent boxing history.

The 'but for Cus dying', 'but for that bitch Washington/Givens and her mom' chapters are particularly worn and dog-eared.

Agreed, the chapter on headbutts is close. No chapter on 'prime' Tyson looking the same against Tillis that he did against douglas.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I do have to give JIP credit, the line about a Boxer fighting for $ & pussy as an example of lost focus is pure comedic gold. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but all Boxers fight for that. The Spartan life for a fighter is far rarer than the party animal skirt chaser. A top guy that lives like Hagler, Hopkins or Mayweather is about 10000-1.

[Counter-puncher]

The most ragged, well-leafed playbook in recent boxing history.

The 'but for Cus dying', 'but for that bitch Washington/Givens and her mom' chapters are particularly worn and dog-eared.

Agreed, the chapter on headbutts is close. No chapter on 'prime' Tyson looking the same against Tillis that he did against douglas.

I knew I missed a chapter.