Prime Hopkins vs. Prime Toney

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 27 Mar 2006, 15:32

Both fighters in their prime were incredible.

The Hopkins that fought Trinidad vs. the Toney that fought Barkley.

I'd have to rate them like this:

Defense
Hopkins 10 Toney 9

Chin
Hopkins 9 Toney 10

Power
Hopkins 8 Toney 8

Speed
Hopkins 9 Toney 9

Cuts
Hopkins 10 Toney 10

Stamina
Hopkins 10 Toney 10

They are very evenly matched in their prime and both are incredible fighters but who wins.

This is not comparing the Hopkins now who throws fifteen punches around to the Toney who is drained from making weight, this is both fighters in their prime.

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 27 Mar 2006, 17:41

Has to be JT...he had that extra gear at his peak and would be too strong for Hopkins. I think Bernard is a little too predictable and methodical.

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 28 Mar 2006, 00:36

Caulk Rocket wrote:James Toney never did what Hopkins did in the middleweight division. Hopkins by late TKO or decision. Hopkins has a more solid chin than Toney, that stat you have is wrong. Hopkins was not knocked down as many times as Toney was in his career.

Are you sure about that?

I've never seen Toney hurt before.

And he's been down twice that I know of

once from Jones which didn't hurt him at all but just suprised him and caught him off balance.

and another time from Reggie Johnson, which I didn't see.

Hopkins was down three times against Mercado.

Seamus · Post by **Seamus** » 28 Mar 2006, 01:11

Hopkins was down twice against Mercado, and from what I've read they were questionable knockdowns. Plus Hopkins destroyed him in the rematch.

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 28 Mar 2006, 01:29

Seamus wrote:Hopkins was down twice against Mercado, and from what I've read they were questionable knockdowns. Plus Hopkins destroyed him in the rematch.

Still I've never seen Toney hurt before.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 28 Mar 2006, 02:43

the reggie johnson knockdown was legit, he put toney on his ass

walshb · Post by **walshb** » 28 Mar 2006, 13:09

With all respect I think this should discount the inconsistency aspect. We're
talking about peaks and JT at his peak was mesmerising, he had it all and too much for Hopkins. Toney V Nunn and Barkley who were very good opponents was special. I think he wins comfortably. I do not see where Hpokins has an advantage...

BoxBuzz · Post by **BoxBuzz** » 28 Mar 2006, 13:21

I'd put my money on Toney on this one. He's just as durable, harder hitting and I think he can force the work on the inside and hopkins won't be able to outslick him.

Jut my take.

meade95 · Post by **meade95** » 28 Mar 2006, 14:49

Both these guys at their best at 160 would have been one hell of a fight - Though Toney was probably at his best both mentaly and physically at around 168 -

With that said.....I'd go with Toney by close DEC. He out works and lands the clearer shots in a great technical fight -

dempseyfire · Post by **dempseyfire** » 29 Mar 2006, 01:31

Hopkins was already slightly past his best vs Tito. Look at him vs Glen Johnson to see the Executioner at his peak.

Tough matchup . . .I lean towards Bernard. I think Hopkins was actually the harder hitter and had a slightly better defense. Most importantly I see Hopkins using the sharp double jab to offset James and then frustrate him with counters. Toney can lead but is not comfortable doing it and can be open to counter-punches himself. Bernard I feel is more patient than James and would simply wait until Toney tried to force the action and then he'd get in his pot-shots.

Hopkins by decision

klompton · Post by **klompton** » 29 Mar 2006, 01:53

Hopkins. People talk about Toneys peak but when was that? He either lost or had questionable wins at every stage of his so-called peak. I have a great deal of respect for Toneys grit and skill but he needs the right opponent to look good against and Hopkins would be able to negate Toneys counterpunching style by mixing it up. He was much more versatile than Toney ever was. As for Toney never having been hurt just watch the Reggie Johnson fight. The light hitting Johnson dumped Toney hard and hurt him a couple more times in that fight. Toney can be hurt but it wouldnt come down to that because both guys were so durable. Hopkins was dumped a couple of times against Mercado but keep in mind he was fighting in Mercados hometown in high altitude without acclimating and after having arrived only about two days in advance (thank Don King for those wonderful arrangements, Mercado was a King fighter and he was trying to protect his interest).

Roll With The Punches · Post by **Roll With The Punches** » 29 Mar 2006, 07:20

Hopkins never fought the calibre of fighter like Nunn or McCallum

i'd take Toney with the proven skills against a higher calibre of fighters

Ezzard · Post by **Ezzard** » 30 Mar 2006, 05:15

Watched Toney-Nunn last night and then Jones-Toney... Toney looks totally different. He's looks solid against Nunn and soft against Jones. In peak condition I think he just has a little too much for Hop but it's a very close scrap.

generic screen name · Post by **generic screen name** » 30 Mar 2006, 05:26

I don't get rating Toney's defense a 9, it's about as good as Hopkins, plus about power, Toney was KOing Cruiserweights.

But all that aside I'd pick Hopkins by decision. This one i'm kinda iffy on though, tommorrow I may pick Toney....

dr_devious · Post by **dr_devious** » 30 Mar 2006, 06:26

This is very close, may well end in a draw, although BHop is the more consistent of the too. It could go either way, I cant split them

Professor X · Post by **Professor X** » 30 Mar 2006, 22:02

Lets take a common opponent: Roy Jones.

Roy embarrased Toney.
Roy knows/knew Hopkins beat him.

I'll take Hopkins over Toney at middleweight nearly every time.

Grimm · Post by **Grimm** » 31 Mar 2006, 11:15

Decagon wrote:
Grimm wrote:Stamina
Hopkins 10 Toney 10
That's stupid. More like:

Stamina
Hopkins 10 Toney 5

Toney's lack of Stamina cost him the Jones, Griffin and Tiberi fights.

How the hell did stamina cost him the Jones fight?

Toney was never in that fight at all it wasn't even close.

I said peak Toney, not the weight drained bull crap Toney vs. Jones.

Also this is a matchup at middleweight.

And Toney beat Tiberi.

Travieso · Post by **Travieso** » 31 Mar 2006, 14:39

at 160 I'd say Bernard by a close decision :)

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 01 Apr 2006, 02:39

At 160 Toney would counter punch the crap out of Hopkins. "Lights Out" would make Hopkins look silly and give him a boxing lesson. Hopkins would never be able to hurt or hit Toney. Toney on the other hand would rock Hopkins many times, probably end up stopping him.

Roll With The Punches · Post by **Roll With The Punches** » 02 Apr 2006, 08:57

Jones has nothing to do with anything

this would not be a fight on the outside

just comparing experience, i'd give Toney the edge as he is more proven against better fighters
Hopkins has not defeated any fighters in the league of a Nunn or McCallum

ringsider · Post by **ringsider** » 02 Apr 2006, 14:19

Jones has nothing to do with anything

That is right. Jones never fought anyone where he went foreward. RJ vs Toney or RJ vs. Hopkins means nothing about Toney/Hopkins.... That is why we had to listen to RJ garbage all those years........If he had actually stood and fought/boxed instead of ran away both Toney and Hopkins would have beaten him up. As an old boxing coach of mine once said, "It takes two guys have a fight, if one doesn't want to fight, you don't have any fight." That pretty much sums up all of RJ's fights until Tarver KO'd him.

Toney beats Hopkins, Skill, chin, counter punching, boxing ability, and power all go to Toney, plus he talks better smack!!

Prime Hopkins vs. Prime Toney

Prime Hopkins vs. Prime Toney

Re: Prime Hopkins vs. Prime Toney