Will the Real Gennady Golovkin Please Stand Up?

[Thomastearns]

His detractors say that he's slowing and showing his age as was evident in his last two fights. Some go as far as to say that he's no more than a carefully managed second rate champion who's fought nobody. He shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as previous champions like Hagler or Hopkins etc. Furthermore he's nothing more than a cowardly bum for not moving up in weight. Canelo's going to finally expose this frauds lack of head movement for all to see.

His fans on the other hand would argue that you don't have to look much beyond his impeccable amateur and professional records - facts speak for themselves they say.

Look a bit closer you will see a clean living, granite chinned, two fisted boxing throwback who elusive qualities are regularly overlooked they argue. He's climbed the slippery boxing pole the long and hard way and many of his supporters already see him as the greatest middleweight we yet seen.

Rarely has there been a boxer who has divided opinion to this extent. September 16 is the chance for GGG to quieten his critics at least for a while. You can never silence boxing critics for ever, some of them are still arguing about Jack Johnson.

And long may that continue.

[man]

Rarely has there been a boxer who has divided opinion to this extent.

really?

[Kalan]

Well... When Roy Jones reached 35 he was leveled by Antonio Tarver and Glen Johnson... His supporters say he was old, but his opponents were older.

Golovkin is undefeated at 35 like Roy was (1 DQ loss I won't count)... GGG has to perform like a virtuoso in order to get any credit at all... He's been chasing a Lineal Middleweight Title Fight for 7 years and would have gotten a chance when he was 28 if he were an American... This is a big fight like Hagler-Leonard, but will draw bigger numbers even though Leonard was magical box office... At 32 Hagler lost to a Welterweight coming off a 3-year-layoff for his 3rd defeat.. Golovkin is 18-0 in World Middleweight Title fights.. Hagler and Monzon aren't even close... Robinson was 3-3 in Middleweight Title Defenses.

That's why a lot of people say GGG is the best Middleweight ever. Unlike the above fighters he's never ducked anyone. He's just been ducked.

[Thomastearns]

Hagler, like GGG, earned it the like difficult way unlike Leonard who was a media darling since winning his gold medal at Montreal. Marvin took the decision against him personally having felt the boxing establishment never gave him enough credit. It was a case of the old versus the new school. Ray Leonard was years ahead of his time, but still had doubters amongst the old guard (they also doubted Ali for similar reasons - being too flash/showy).

30 years later, both are boxing legends. If Golovkin can unify the title and break Hopkins record you'd like to think he must surely be in everyone's top 3 all time middleweights at the least.

Currently some have him as the greatest and some not even in their top 10. I can only think of Mike Tyson being so divisive of opinion and I'm always surprised when he's not even in people's top 10 all time heavyweights. If you were around in the late 1980s it was difficult to argue against him being anything other than number 1. That's the point I think, everything is a product of its own time and should be judged accordingly.

[Kalan]

Tyson won like 9 straight Title Defenses against guys who were old or not too good... Then he get battered and knocked out by a 42/1 underdog... After that, Holyfield and Lewis beat him up and knocked him out...and they were both older than Mike... That's the reason he's not one of the top guys.

[SenorPipino]

I actually agree with Kalan. Tyson had some good qualities---strength, power and excellent hand speed.

But he was heartless, easily discouraged and failed against the elite heavies.

A tall guy who could move and possessed a meaningful jab would always control Tyson.

If you think Gigi is one of the top middles of all time, then you're obviously lapping up the Abel Sanchez kool-aid.

If Jacobs could hang with him and get deprived od a deserved decision, I imagine the cagier, quicker Leonard would school him all night long.

I can't wait until Canelo finally puts an embarassing end to this ridiculous Golovkin myth.

[RScarf1]

Golovkin could retire right now and he would still be inducted into the Hall of Fame. Jacobs was not following IBF rules regarding the weight check and Golovkin did. Golovkin was at a disadvantage because Jacobs did not care about participating in the IBF's same day weigh-in. Golovkin still deserved to win in my opinion and most people's opinions. At the WBC Convention, Marvin Hagler gave Golovkin a trophy and I think that Hagler believes that Golovkin is a great champion. Unfortunately, I think that Golovkin could get robbed by the judges and/or have a biased referee for his fight against Canelo. If Canelo wins, no matter how he wins, it will affect Golovkin's legacy.

[Lackeos]

many of his supporters already see him as the greatest middleweight we yet seen.

If someone is going to rank Golovkin ahead of other fighters who have proven themselves 5 times as much; then I reserve the right to rank some contender ahead of Golovkin, who has proven himself 5 times as much.

Therefore, I reserve the right to rank Saunders and Derevyanchenko ahead of Golovkin. It's only fair. You rank Golovkin ahead of Sugar Ray Robinson, despite the fact that he has far from earned it. Sure. But I get to rank Saunders ahead of Golovkin. Now we're playing by the same rules.

[Cutman Scabbers]

I actually agree with Kalan. Tyson had some good qualities---strength, power and excellent hand speed.

But he was heartless, easily discouraged and failed against the elite heavies.

A tall guy who could move and possessed a meaningful jab would always control Tyson.

You mean like Mitch Green, Jose Ribalta, Pinklon Thomas, Tony Tucker, Tyrell Biggs,
Larry Holmes, Tony Tubbs and Carl Williams?

[Enlightened-One]

I actually agree with Kalan. Tyson had some good qualities---strength, power and excellent hand speed.

But he was heartless, easily discouraged and failed against the elite heavies.

A tall guy who could move and possessed a meaningful jab would always control Tyson.

You mean like Mitch Green, Jose Ribalta, Pinklon Thomas, Tony Tucker, Tyrell Biggs,
Larry Holmes, Tony Tubbs and Carl Williams?

To be fair, most of the guys on your list were either in survival mode (showing no ambition), weren't that good to begin with or were well past their prime.

[NateJR]

I've been a GGG detractor but not to the degree stated in the OP. There's no doubt GGG belongs in the upper echelon when it comes to Middleweight. I just don't believe he has the body of work that puts him at the very top above guys like Hopkins, Hagler, SRR or Monzon.. not even close to be honest with you. Yes GGG has had a long run at top of the MW division and a great streak in title defenses, but no matter how you twist it you have to take his 2nd tier opponents into consideration. Not even the eye test convinces me GGG is the very best MW of all time and if you want me to be critical as far as all around boxing skills he even falls further down the latter in rankings compared to ranking him on acheivements.

Very good fighter, borderline great without a defining win against a great opponent you could call a peer. Canelo to me is his first challenge to convince me he's truly great. But to me it seems GGGs fans have a lot of built in excuses if he loses to Canelo that he shouldn't need if he truly as great as these people claim he is.

I do believe Canelo will give GGG the business. Not because GGG is old, not because of corrupt judges or referee, but because Canelo is the better fighter.

[RScarf1]

I've been a GGG detractor but not to the degree stated in the OP. There's no doubt GGG belongs in the upper echelon when it comes to Middleweight. I just don't believe he has the body of work that puts him at the very top above guys like Hopkins, Hagler, SRR or Monzon.. not even close to be honest with you. Yes GGG has had a long run at top of the MW division and a great streak in title defenses, but no matter how you twist it you have to take his 2nd tier opponents into consideration. Not even the eye test convinces me GGG is the very best MW of all time and if you want me to be critical as far as all around boxing skills he even falls further down the latter in rankings compared to ranking him on acheivements.

Very good fighter, borderline great without a defining win against a great opponent you could call a peer. Canelo to me is his first challenge to convince me he's truly great. But to me it seems GGGs fans have a lot of built in excuses if he loses to Canelo that he shouldn't need if he truly as great as these people claim he is.

I do believe Canelo will give GGG the business. Not because GGG is old, not because of corrupt judges or referee, but because Canelo is the better fighter.

I think that Jacobs as a world champion and No. 2 in the division was a good test. Also, Jacobs was way overweight and Golovkin was still abiding by IBF rules for the weight checks. I think Golovkin is better than Canelo. I think Canelo can only win if the officials are on his side.

[caldo2025]

His detractors say that he's slowing and showing his age as was evident in his last two fights. Some go as far as to say that he's no more than a carefully managed second rate champion who's fought nobody. He shouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as previous champions like Hagler or Hopkins etc. Furthermore he's nothing more than a cowardly bum for not moving up in weight. Canelo's going to finally expose this frauds lack of head movement for all to see.

His fans on the other hand would argue that you don't have to look much beyond his impeccable amateur and professional records - facts speak for themselves they say.

Look a bit closer you will see a clean living, granite chinned, two fisted boxing throwback who elusive qualities are regularly overlooked they argue. He's climbed the slippery boxing pole the long and hard way and many of his supporters already see him as the greatest middleweight we yet seen.

Rarely has there been a boxer who has divided opinion to this extent. September 16 is the chance for GGG to quieten his critics at least for a while. You can never silence boxing critics for ever, some of them are still arguing about Jack Johnson.

And long may that continue.

It's refreshing to see an intelligent post like this with an interesting topic for a change. The site has been bogged down by idiocy lately so thank you.

To me, GGG is an all time great no matter what happens in this fight. He went on a KO streak of dominance unlike anything i've ever seen in the MW division in my lifetime. 160 pounds is probably the toughest weight to have a streak like this just because I think at that weight athletes have more well rounded ability, strength and speed. Anyone that considers GGG's route as "carefully managed" doesn't know the sport. GGG was the most avoided fighter I can ever remember. The guy still fought and defended his title 3 times a year consistently. So I think detractors of this guys career have to have an agenda to do so or a distain for the guy.

With all that said, GGG's place in history is on the line in this fight. The result will be historical in terms of where we place GGG on that magic list of greats. A loss will end up being disastrous for him. A win will probably be minimized by detractors saying that Canelo was too small but I think as time goes on, it will end up being GGG's greatest win. But I just don't see how GGG gets a decision in this one and I can't see Canelo getting knocked out so smart money is on Canelo i feel. Either way, its career defining for both guys in many ways.

[RScarf1]

I know there have been so many bad decisions before, but if Canelo's career is elevated at Golovkin's expense, I think it will be very damaging to the reputation of boxing. I think some people will stop being fans of the sport.

[Badhusker]

GGG knows he has more at stake than Canelo does. I think we will see his best, whatever that is at his age. I hope that Canelo and his team mis-calculated on whether GGG has declined or not, waiting two years like they have. GGG hopefully by KO, otherwise he loses by decision.

[Kalan]

I actually agree with Kalan. Tyson had some good qualities---strength, power and excellent hand speed.

But he was heartless, easily discouraged and failed against the elite heavies.

A tall guy who could move and possessed a meaningful jab would always control Tyson.

If you think Gigi is one of the top middles of all time, then you're obviously lapping up the Abel Sanchez kool-aid.

If Jacobs could hang with him and get deprived od a deserved decision, I imagine the cagier, quicker Leonard would school him all night long.

I can't wait until Canelo finally puts an embarassing end to this ridiculous Golovkin myth.

Leonard wasn't as quick as Jacobs and lacked his size, height, and firepower... Ray came off a 3-year-layoff and was loaded with ring rust when he fought Hagler... Then Ray pulled a Canelo and abandoned the Middleweight Title. He didn't want the crap beaten out of him by Michael Nunn, Mike McCallum, or Julian Jackson... When SRL was younger than GGG and had fewer wins, Terry Norris easily out-sped him, boxed his ass off, and wiped the floor with Ray

So stop talkin' nonsense.. After he fought Hagler at 30 Leonard fought nothing but out-of-date rematches and cherry picks the rest of the way.

[gilgamesh]

GGG knows he has more at stake than Canelo does. I think we will see his best, whatever that is at his age. I hope that Canelo and his team mis-calculated on whether GGG has declined or not, waiting two years like they have. GGG hopefully by KO, otherwise he loses by decision.

If he wins decisively he'll get the decision.

[NateJR]

I've been a GGG detractor but not to the degree stated in the OP. There's no doubt GGG belongs in the upper echelon when it comes to Middleweight. I just don't believe he has the body of work that puts him at the very top above guys like Hopkins, Hagler, SRR or Monzon.. not even close to be honest with you. Yes GGG has had a long run at top of the MW division and a great streak in title defenses, but no matter how you twist it you have to take his 2nd tier opponents into consideration. Not even the eye test convinces me GGG is the very best MW of all time and if you want me to be critical as far as all around boxing skills he even falls further down the latter in rankings compared to ranking him on acheivements.

Very good fighter, borderline great without a defining win against a great opponent you could call a peer. Canelo to me is his first challenge to convince me he's truly great. But to me it seems GGGs fans have a lot of built in excuses if he loses to Canelo that he shouldn't need if he truly as great as these people claim he is.

I do believe Canelo will give GGG the business. Not because GGG is old, not because of corrupt judges or referee, but because Canelo is the better fighter.

I think that Jacobs as a world champion and No. 2 in the division was a good test. Also, Jacobs was way overweight and Golovkin was still abiding by IBF rules for the weight checks. I think Golovkin is better than Canelo. I think Canelo can only win if the officials are on his side.

Jacobs was a great test and if Jacobs can continue to have impressive wins, GGGs win against Jacobs (although somewhat controversial) may look better with time. The fact is though on the official weigh-in which is the only weigh-in that truly matters, Jacobs made the contracted weight. So GGG fought a Middleweight, a big Middleweight but he was a Middleweight the second he weighed in under 160 lbs the day before the fight, how much he weighed on fight night can't be proven and is pure speculation.

I truly believe Canelo has all the tools to beat GGG, no controversy needed. We will find out in September, I know GGG has the goods and is a dangerous fighter, but so is Canelo and I believe Canelo has the superior skills.

[Kalan]

I truly believe Canelo has all the tools to beat GGG, no controversy needed. We will find out in September, I know GGG has the goods and is a dangerous fighter, but so is Canelo and I believe Canelo has the superior skills

Canelo has a better and fuller tool box of skills at 27 than a weight-drained 23-year-old neophyte Saul had versus Floyd Mayweather, holding him to a MD... I'm sure this will be a UD for Golovkin or a KO... GGG is a better boxer-puncher than Floyd ever was when you look at their performances.

Floyd wobbled around the the ring on rubbery legs when Mosley nailed him... Floyd was knocked down by Judah... Floyd ate jabs from Cotto -- Roger had to break open the King-Sized Q-Tips dip them in coagulents, and shove them up Floyd's nose to stem the blood flow... NONE of those things ever happened to Gannedey Golovkin in 387 Amateur and Professional Fights.. which more than double what Floyd had -- and none of his fight were close enough to be SD's... Plus Golovkin landed many more punches than Jacobs and scored the only knockdown... So anyone claiming Jacobs won can shove it... Floyd had closer fights.

[BitPlayer]

I don't think he's really very devisive at all.

Some people think he's good but overhyped, others think he's great.

[RScarf1]

I truly believe Canelo has all the tools to beat GGG, no controversy needed. We will find out in September, I know GGG has the goods and is a dangerous fighter, but so is Canelo and I believe Canelo has the superior skills

Why the heck is this statement being attributed to me? I did not write this.

[caldo2025]

I've been a GGG detractor but not to the degree stated in the OP. There's no doubt GGG belongs in the upper echelon when it comes to Middleweight. I just don't believe he has the body of work that puts him at the very top above guys like Hopkins, Hagler, SRR or Monzon.. not even close to be honest with you. Yes GGG has had a long run at top of the MW division and a great streak in title defenses, but no matter how you twist it you have to take his 2nd tier opponents into consideration. Not even the eye test convinces me GGG is the very best MW of all time and if you want me to be critical as far as all around boxing skills he even falls further down the latter in rankings compared to ranking him on acheivements.

Very good fighter, borderline great without a defining win against a great opponent you could call a peer. Canelo to me is his first challenge to convince me he's truly great. But to me it seems GGGs fans have a lot of built in excuses if he loses to Canelo that he shouldn't need if he truly as great as these people claim he is.

I do believe Canelo will give GGG the business. Not because GGG is old, not because of corrupt judges or referee, but because Canelo is the better fighter.

I think it's hilarious how the GGG detractors discredit his body of work. His last 5 opponents have a combined record of 120-3. His last 3 were 86-1. Then to say that he is not on par with Hopkins confuses me as well considering how paltry his opposition was during his record setting defenses. He too had a couple of welterweights (ODH and Felix) and those were his best wins. I don't think that it's fair criticism but i know it's just your opinion and who can fault you for it.

I agree with you about Canelo giving GGG all he could handle in this fight. I don't expect it to happen but I'm curious how you would view GGG if he thoroughly defeated Canelo and knocked him out within a few rounds. An impressive knockout against one of the best fighters in the world? Would you give him full credit for the win or partial credit because Canelo is coming up from Junior Middleweight? Just curious, not being fresh.

[Tarkus]

I have a better question for you. Is "please stand up" a verb?

[Tanzio]

Team GingerHead took this fight a year earlier than they preferred to because of a combination of the negative effect years of ducking 3G was having on the Mexican prima dona's rep and the appearance of 3G's last two performances.

3G will take GingerHead to school, and likely stop him.

[Kalan]

I think it's hilarious how the GGG detractors discredit his body of work. His last 5 opponents have a combined record of 120-3. His last 3 were 86-1. Then to say that he is not on par with Hopkins confuses me as well considering how paltry his opposition was during his record setting defenses. He too had a couple of welterweights (ODH and Felix) and those were his best wins

Right on target!!! Considering B-Hop lost 3 Middleweight Title Fights and was knocked down a couple times as well (is anyone going to dismiss a Golovkin loss or KD if they happen???). If GGG suffers 3 losses and gets knocked down a couple times they'll run him out of the country. The North American boxing establishment will move Heaven and Earth to get Alvarez a win, and that includes the judges and referee.

We just saw what happened to Kovalev in his last 2 fights. We saw what happened to Povetkin. The establishment started talking about Lomachenko fighting Mikey Garcia, who is another division up from him. Forget Lomachenko getting shots at Davis or the other champions at 130 -- anymore than he was afforded shots at the other champions at 126. So then when Lomachenko calls Mikey Garcia out...the next move is, Mikey goes to 140 to fight Adrien Broner.

Cubans are treated as bad as Eastern Europeans... How long has Luis Ortiz been waiting for a big fight? Maybe they figure he's getting old now. Lara was robbed in the Canelo fight after he dominated Austin Trout. That was over 3 years ago. That's it for Lara because he hasn't gotten a single significant fight since and he's 34. As if Lara could ever get a Cotto fight or anything. Austin Trout beat Cotto more one-sidedly than even Floyd beat him, but Cotto gets offered every big fight there is. Lara vs Andrade would seem to be a fight that's begging to be made. Forget it. Then there's Rigondeaux. He got one single long talked about fight with Nonito Donaire when he was 32 years old. He out-boxed Donaire in lopsided fashion so his future seemed to be set.. But was he ever going to get another big fight out of that win? Nope!! Was he ever going to get Frampton? Hell no. Is he ever going to get ANY big fight outside of a certain loss to Lomachenko? Since Rigo is now 36 years old the answer to that is maybe. Wait a couple more years and see how beatable he looks.