Ronnie Clark jailed

[coneye]

Shame and tragic , .. Makes me relize i've been lucky never been down that road

[daviddee]

Rather than quoting everyone one by one, I'll put all of this in one post.

A number of issues have been raised in relation to evidence, representation, appeals, the English Court system and so on, deal with this sort of stuff on a day to day basis so I can answer some of it without knowing the finer details of the case.

First of all, the evidence can't be judged on the article, same goes for the reporting of any criminal case, far more goes on that what is reported. Her word is evidence if she provided a statement, the accuracy of it can be disputed, but it is evidence. Just because he hasn't physically harmed her doesn't mean he hasn't committed an offence, the article isn't clear on the exact charges he was convicted of but it makes mention of Threats To Kill, which I presume were dropped, possibly Harassment and it would fall under the new offences mentioned. If it's true that he was following her movements and that could be proved, then he was up against it from the start because it is difficult to argue that in doing so he was being reasonable or acting in her best interests.

The issues with the children do not constitute a defence, while it might not be right what has gone on there, that is for the Family Courts to decide, before a criminal Court they are only useful for mitigation.

In terms of the sentence, it's based on the sentencing guidelines, how closely they're followed depends on the Judge, but the range is from a Community Order up to 4 years, without seeing the exact evidence it's hard to say whether it was excessive or not, from the limited facts I'd guess he was sentenced on Cat 2A, starting point 12 months, range of 6 months-2 years.

While he had to use a Solicitor practising in English law, he didn't have to use the one given to him, at some point down the line, either at the Police Station or the Magistrates Court, he will have asked for the Duty Solicitor, until they get a signed Legal Aid declaration from you and get a Rep Order granted, you can change firms with a simple authority that's a couple of lines long.
The evidence for the spyware may well have come from examining the phones, both Ronnie's and her's. If they found spyware on her phone and evidence on his that he was accessing it then that's pretty hard to dispute, but stuff like that isn't usually reported in any real detail.

He may well be out before 4 1/2 months, if he's in Dundee and she's in Northallerton then the distance should make him a good candidate for HDC, either way as long as he doesn't do anything stupid inside he'll be out before Christmas and in an open prison in a couple of months.

If there was anything in that from one of the brothers they should have been prosecuted too, likely they weren't because it's probably bullshit and for a small case it's not really worth dealing with the cross border issues.

I don't think find my iPhone could be classed as spyware that he installed given that it comes standard, although using it to track her movements and read messages would be illegal, possible appeal point on sentence though?

"Can he appeal" - Possibly. He'll find it difficult to appeal the conviction now, which is actually fairly simple and just involves filling in some forms with a couple of appeal points and submitting them to the Magistrates Court, but you have 21 days and he's probably gone over that now, appealing out of time isn't easy. Appealing the sentence is possible, he'll have until the 14th August to submit it, but to do so he'll need a positive advice on Appeal from his Barrister, while the sentence may be harsh to appeal you have to be able to show that it's manifestly excessive.

Looking at the articles and doing a bit of research, it looks like Amrit Jandoo who represented him, was only called to the Bar in March, but had practised as a Solicitor since 2009, working for the firm that I would guess represented Ronnie, Clark Willis, if you're not sure I'll check tomorrow. There's nothing dodgy about that, fairly normal if a Solicitor transfers to the Bar on good terms with their old firm that they'll then pass them a few jobs to help them get going. The important thing is to get the advice on Appeal from him, chase them up for it ASAP, the quicker you get it the better and a bit of pressure tends to help because normally Barrister's aren't really in a rush. If it comes back positive then great, they'll bang it into the Court of Appeal and it goes from there, if it's negative then either you leave it at that, or pay privately for another Barrister to look at the papers and provide an advice, hoping that it's positive. Make sure you get that advice though because without it any Appeal won't get anywhere.

In terms of the transfer from a normal Court to a High Court and the seriousness of the case, I don't know exactly how the Scottish Court system works and what goes up to the High Court but in England it's very different. There's three types of offences, Summary, Either Way and Indictable cases. Summary offences can only be heard in the Magistrates Court, Either Way can be in the Mags or Crown and Indictable will be sent to the Crown Court. Ronnie was tried on an Either Way offence, the Magistrates had deemed it suitable for Summary trial and he didn't elect Crown Court trial. After being found guilty the Magistrates then decided that their sentencing powers (6 month maximum), were not sufficient and committed it to the Crown Court for Sentence. The difference between the two countries is that all sorts can end up in the Crown Court, Affray, S4 Public Order, low value Fraud, etc, I've even seen a bit of shoplifting in the Crown Court, charged as a Conspiracy to Steal!

I hope all goes well for Ronnie, if he can stick an Appeal in then go for it, he's got nothing to lose taking it to the single Judge and may well have been unfortunate, Trial before the Magistrates can be hit and miss, especially if you get the wrong one because some of them make their minds up beforehand, go with the word of one over the other without taking anything else into account or even understand what they can and can't do, like bailing someone with the condition "Not to enter England, save to attend Court or a pre-arranged appointment with Solicitors". Probably would have been better off getting a jury involved, but it's too late for that now.

Hope that's answered a few questions, if anyone has anymore then either ask me here or PM.

Thank you Expe... crazy how different both legal systems are.. W

[expe]

Thank you Expe... crazy how different both legal systems are.. W

No problem mate, good luck with the appeal if you get it in, might have a decent chance given that it's a new offence and there won't have been any test cases before the Court of Appeal yet. If Ronnie's been sentenced on Cat 2A then there's a decent shout there that the judge hasn't applied the law correctly as to do so he must have deemed that there was a sophistication to the offence.

There's no point disputing facts at this stage because of the conviction and spyware would be classed as sophistication under the guidelines, however if it was find my iPhone then it could be argued that isn't spyware because it's on the phone when you buy it and that removes the sophistication element, if the CoA found in his favour on that then it should be enough to get him out either through a non custodial sentence or through time served on a reduced sentence.

The whole legal system is crazy, if someone found a way round client confidentiality and wrote a book it would be a best seller, people wouldn't believe some of the stuff that goes on. Just as an example of the cross border stuff, if one of you had sent the message alleged, it would have been a crime committed in Scotland, against a victim in England, all sorts of issues would have been raised in relation to where you should have been charged and tried and which law should apply.

If you need anything just drop me a PM and I'll try and help out where I can.

[ste1983]

Is that his career over ? Or will he get a license again?

Jamie Cox got his license back after being convicted of assaulting his ex (or some sort of violence against her) and Frankie Gavin after an affray so sure Ronnie will....then again they had big promoters behind email at the time.

[BigDoofus]

Totally unrelated, but I remember reading about a bloke who suspected his wife was having an affair, so he bought an iPhone with the 'Find my iPhone' thing switched on and hid it in her car boot. He then used it to trace her to wherever she was having the affair and chopped up his wife and her lover with an axe.

So I suppose it depends on the circumstances of what the software is used for.

I love a happy ending

[bripez]

Here's an idea for Eddie - why don't we have a catchweight Prizefighter-type competition for those boxers with such convictions.

You know, the likes of Ronnie, Chisora, Cox, the fella from Hartlepool etc. - any more to make up the numbers?

[CaptainSpacerod]

Here's an idea for Eddie - why don't we have a catchweight Prizefighter-type competition for those boxers with such convictions.

You know, the likes of Ronnie, Chisora, Cox, the fella from Hartlepool etc. - any more to make up the numbers?

Mayweather.

He might be amenable to the idea once Eddie explained a night's work could take his record to 53-0

[MarkMcBurney]

Is that his career over ? Or will he get a license again?

Jamie Cox got his license back after being convicted of assaulting his ex (or some sort of violence against her) and Frankie Gavin after an affray so sure Ronnie will....then again they had big promoters behind email at the time.

Pretty sure Jamie Cox was acquitted on appeal...?

[ShadrachSimmo]

Is that his career over ? Or will he get a license again?

Jamie Cox got his license back after being convicted of assaulting his ex (or some sort of violence against her) and Frankie Gavin after an affray so sure Ronnie will....then again they had big promoters behind email at the time.

Pretty sure Jamie Cox was acquitted on appeal...?

Scott Harrison springs to mind. A few Scottish boxers Lee McAllister, Gary McMillan and Scot Dixon all served time I believe but not sure if they ever boxed again.

[ste1983]

Is that his career over ? Or will he get a license again?

Jamie Cox got his license back after being convicted of assaulting his ex (or some sort of violence against her) and Frankie Gavin after an affray so sure Ronnie will....then again they had big promoters behind email at the time.

Pretty sure Jamie Cox was acquitted on appeal...?

Thought they appealed his sentence not conviction

[Stuarty]

Wasn't aware of this. Hope he's alright and can move on when he's released.