caldo2025 wrote:I think it's hilarious how the GGG detractors discredit his body of work. His last 5 opponents have a combined record of 120-3. His last 3 were 86-1. Then to say that he is not on par with Hopkins confuses me as well considering how paltry his opposition was during his record setting defenses. He too had a couple of welterweights (ODH and Felix) and those were his best wins
Right on target!!! Considering B-Hop lost 3 Middleweight Title Fights and was knocked down a couple times as well (is anyone going to dismiss a Golovkin loss or KD if they happen???). If GGG suffers 3 losses and gets knocked down a couple times they'll run him out of the country. The North American boxing establishment will move Heaven and Earth to get Alvarez a win, and that includes the judges and referee.
We just saw what happened to Kovalev in his last 2 fights. We saw what happened to Povetkin. The establishment started talking about Lomachenko fighting Mikey Garcia, who is another division up from him. Forget Lomachenko getting shots at Davis or the other champions at 130 -- anymore than he was afforded shots at the other champions at 126. So then when Lomachenko calls Mikey Garcia out...the next move is, Mikey goes to 140 to fight Adrien Broner.
Cubans are treated as bad as Eastern Europeans... How long has Luis Ortiz been waiting for a big fight? Maybe they figure he's getting old now. Lara was robbed in the Canelo fight after he dominated Austin Trout. That was over 3 years ago. That's it for Lara because he hasn't gotten a single significant fight since and he's 34. As if Lara could ever get a Cotto fight or anything. Austin Trout beat Cotto more one-sidedly than even Floyd beat him, but Cotto gets offered every big fight there is. Lara vs Andrade would seem to be a fight that's begging to be made. Forget it. Then there's Rigondeaux. He got one single long talked about fight with Nonito Donaire when he was 32 years old. He out-boxed Donaire in lopsided fashion so his future seemed to be set.. But was he ever going to get another big fight out of that win? Nope!! Was he ever going to get Frampton? Hell no. Is he ever going to get ANY big fight outside of a certain loss to Lomachenko? Since Rigo is now 36 years old the answer to that is maybe. Wait a couple more years and see how beatable he looks.
Do you know how I knew that Canelo and GGG would fight? As soon as I saw them raise GGG's hand at the end of the Jacobs fight. If there was no super fight already agreed to then there's NO WAY GGG gets that decision against Jacobs. I feel GGG clearly won that fight but it was JUSTTTTT close enough to bail out the judges for giving it to Jacobs. If a huge payday wasn't on the line then I truly feel he never gets that decision. Jacobs vs. Canelo would sell half the tickets GGG vs Canelo does. I'm already pissed at the scorecards in the GGG/Canelo fight and it hasn't even happened yet. It's as much of a lock as their is in the sport right now. That's why GGG needs to get a KO. He must.
I can't follow you on the Cuban thing. I absolutely despise watching Cuban boxers fight. Barrera was pretty entertaining last week but the rest of them, not for me. They aren't getting any big fights because they get boo'd every time they fight. Lara running against Canelo for the last couple rounds was the most disgusting thing i've seen and I was so happy that he got that one stolen from him. He clearly won the fight but you can't run and win in my book. And as far as Ortiz goes, he hasn't put the work in to get a title shot IMO but who has in the heavyweight division. I've never seen a division in which not only do they not fight each other...they don't fight at all. Finally full of talent and interesting matchups and it's nothing but lawsuits left and right. They are changing the name to the Lititgate Division.
NateJR wrote:I've been a GGG detractor but not to the degree stated in the OP. There's no doubt GGG belongs in the upper echelon when it comes to Middleweight. I just don't believe he has the body of work that puts him at the very top above guys like Hopkins, Hagler, SRR or Monzon.. not even close to be honest with you. Yes GGG has had a long run at top of the MW division and a great streak in title defenses, but no matter how you twist it you have to take his 2nd tier opponents into consideration. Not even the eye test convinces me GGG is the very best MW of all time and if you want me to be critical as far as all around boxing skills he even falls further down the latter in rankings compared to ranking him on acheivements.
Very good fighter, borderline great without a defining win against a great opponent you could call a peer. Canelo to me is his first challenge to convince me he's truly great. But to me it seems GGGs fans have a lot of built in excuses if he loses to Canelo that he shouldn't need if he truly as great as these people claim he is.
I do believe Canelo will give GGG the business. Not because GGG is old, not because of corrupt judges or referee, but because Canelo is the better fighter.
I think it's hilarious how the GGG detractors discredit his body of work. His last 5 opponents have a combined record of 120-3. His last 3 were 86-1. Then to say that he is not on par with Hopkins confuses me as well considering how paltry his opposition was during his record setting defenses. He too had a couple of welterweights (ODH and Felix) and those were his best wins. I don't think that it's fair criticism but i know it's just your opinion and who can fault you for it.
I agree with you about Canelo giving GGG all he could handle in this fight. I don't expect it to happen but I'm curious how you would view GGG if he thoroughly defeated Canelo and knocked him out within a few rounds. An impressive knockout against one of the best fighters in the world? Would you give him full credit for the win or partial credit because Canelo is coming up from Junior Middleweight? Just curious, not being fresh.
I will give GGG full credit if he beats Alvarez decisively. Would give him tons of credit if hes able to knock Alvarez out and will have to change my stance on how great I believe he is at this point. I honestly wouldn't be shocked at any outcome when it comes to this fight, you have 2 class operators in the room ng, both have good chins and good punching power and they are both very good at what they do. I'm just expressing my opinion, I truly believe Alvarez is superior.
caldo2025 wrote:Do you know how I knew that Canelo and GGG would fight? As soon as I saw them raise GGG's hand at the end of the Jacobs fight. If there was no super fight already agreed to then there's NO WAY GGG gets that decision against Jacobs
So you think the judges would have robbed Golovkin like they did Lara against Williams and Canelo???? GGG landed more punches and scored the only knockdown
I think you have to give it to Golovkin... Decisions like the Ward-Kovalev fights drive Boxing fans and viewers away... Pretty soon they don't show up.
NateJR wrote:I've been a GGG detractor but not to the degree stated in the OP. There's no doubt GGG belongs in the upper echelon when it comes to Middleweight. I just don't believe he has the body of work that puts him at the very top above guys like Hopkins, Hagler, SRR or Monzon.. not even close to be honest with you. Yes GGG has had a long run at top of the MW division and a great streak in title defenses, but no matter how you twist it you have to take his 2nd tier opponents into consideration. Not even the eye test convinces me GGG is the very best MW of all time and if you want me to be critical as far as all around boxing skills he even falls further down the latter in rankings compared to ranking him on acheivements.
Very good fighter, borderline great without a defining win against a great opponent you could call a peer. Canelo to me is his first challenge to convince me he's truly great. But to me it seems GGGs fans have a lot of built in excuses if he loses to Canelo that he shouldn't need if he truly as great as these people claim he is.
I do believe Canelo will give GGG the business. Not because GGG is old, not because of corrupt judges or referee, but because Canelo is the better fighter.
I think it's hilarious how the GGG detractors discredit his body of work. His last 5 opponents have a combined record of 120-3. His last 3 were 86-1. Then to say that he is not on par with Hopkins confuses me as well considering how paltry his opposition was during his record setting defenses. He too had a couple of welterweights (ODH and Felix) and those were his best wins. I don't think that it's fair criticism but i know it's just your opinion and who can fault you for it.
I agree with you about Canelo giving GGG all he could handle in this fight. I don't expect it to happen but I'm curious how you would view GGG if he thoroughly defeated Canelo and knocked him out within a few rounds. An impressive knockout against one of the best fighters in the world? Would you give him full credit for the win or partial credit because Canelo is coming up from Junior Middleweight? Just curious, not being fresh.
I will give GGG full credit if he beats Alvarez decisively. Would give him tons of credit if hes able to knock Alvarez out and will have to change my stance on how great I believe he is at this point. I honestly wouldn't be shocked at any outcome when it comes to this fight, you have 2 class operators in the room ng, both have good chins and good punching power and they are both very good at what they do. I'm just expressing my opinion, I truly believe Alvarez is superior.
That's all GGG fans could hope for. I feared that you might be one of those other GGG haters out there that go out of their way to diminish any and all of his accomplishment. Up until now, it's been "yeah GGG knocked him out BUT...." I just hope there's no more butts and the kid gets his due.
On the flip side of the coin, if Canelo knocks GGG out, I'll give him all the credit in the world. That would be an amazing accomplishment and quite shocking. But after seeing Kovalev get knocked out recently it proved to me that anyone can go. Anyone.
caldo2025 wrote:Do you know how I knew that Canelo and GGG would fight? As soon as I saw them raise GGG's hand at the end of the Jacobs fight. If there was no super fight already agreed to then there's NO WAY GGG gets that decision against Jacobs
So you think the judges would have robbed Golovkin like they did Lara against Williams and Canelo???? GGG landed more punches and scored the only knockdown
I think you have to give it to Golovkin... Decisions like the Ward-Kovalev fights drive Boxing fans and viewers away... Pretty soon they don't show up.
I do. I think that they would have stolen that one from GGG if the fight with Canelo wasn't in the works. Heck, if you look at the scores in that fight, they almost did anyway. I had GGG winning way more comfortably than 114-113, 115-112,115-112. The rounds weren't the usual trouncing that GGG does to clearly win the rounds. They weren't decisive enough (aside from knockdown).
Think about how close the judges had that fight still when you consider GGG clearly outlanded him and got a knockdown. GGG was lucky to walk out of there with his belts.
caldo2025 wrote:Do you know how I knew that Canelo and GGG would fight? As soon as I saw them raise GGG's hand at the end of the Jacobs fight. If there was no super fight already agreed to then there's NO WAY GGG gets that decision against Jacobs
So you think the judges would have robbed Golovkin like they did Lara against Williams and Canelo???? GGG landed more punches and scored the only knockdown
I think you have to give it to Golovkin... Decisions like the Ward-Kovalev fights drive Boxing fans and viewers away... Pretty soon they don't show up.
I do. I think that they would have stolen that one from GGG if the fight with Canelo wasn't in the works. Heck, if you look at the scores in that fight, they almost did anyway. I had GGG winning way more comfortably than 114-113, 115-112,115-112. The rounds weren't the usual trouncing that GGG does to clearly win the rounds. They weren't decisive enough (aside from knockdown).
Think about how close the judges had that fight still when you consider GGG clearly outlanded him and got a knockdown. GGG was lucky to walk out of there with his belts.
I thought the judges got it right. 114-113 was too close but 115-112 was reasonable. 116-111 seemed correct to me.
3G left it close. That is what got him the fight, imo, along with the growing negative pr ducking 3G was garnering GingerHead.
There are poor decisions in boxing. Let's not create conspiracy theories about the ones they get right. 3G needs to be very dominant to hope for a decision victory v GingerHead though.
Then again, if we want to propagate conspiracy theories, maybe they will give the decision (if it gets to one) to 3G to create outrage in his Mexican fanbase and build an even bigger rematch.
Afterall, GingerHead is the one with the blemished record.
Kalan wrote:
So you think the judges would have robbed Golovkin like they did Lara against Williams and Canelo???? GGG landed more punches and scored the only knockdown
I think you have to give it to Golovkin... Decisions like the Ward-Kovalev fights drive Boxing fans and viewers away... Pretty soon they don't show up.
I do. I think that they would have stolen that one from GGG if the fight with Canelo wasn't in the works. Heck, if you look at the scores in that fight, they almost did anyway. I had GGG winning way more comfortably than 114-113, 115-112,115-112. The rounds weren't the usual trouncing that GGG does to clearly win the rounds. They weren't decisive enough (aside from knockdown).
Think about how close the judges had that fight still when you consider GGG clearly outlanded him and got a knockdown. GGG was lucky to walk out of there with his belts.
I thought the judges got it right. 114-113 was too close but 115-112 was reasonable. 116-111 seemed correct to me.
3G left it close. That is what got him the fight, imo, along with the growing negative pr ducking 3G was garnering GingerHead.
There are poor decisions in boxing. Let's not create conspiracy theories about the ones they get right. 3G needs to be very dominant to hope for a decision victory v GingerHead though.
Then again, if we want to propagate conspiracy theories, maybe they will give the decision (if it gets to one) to 3G to create outrage in his Mexican fanbase and build an even bigger rematch.
Afterall, GingerHead is the one with the blemished record.
Nah, no one gets that lucky and I'm not naive enough to chalk it up to lucky scorecards. Is that what you're saying? Canelo has had criminal offense type scorecards. Nah, not buying it. You'll see when they read of the scores and know what i'm saying. No way GGG wins a decision
caldo2025 wrote:
I do. I think that they would have stolen that one from GGG if the fight with Canelo wasn't in the works. Heck, if you look at the scores in that fight, they almost did anyway. I had GGG winning way more comfortably than 114-113, 115-112,115-112. The rounds weren't the usual trouncing that GGG does to clearly win the rounds. They weren't decisive enough (aside from knockdown).
Think about how close the judges had that fight still when you consider GGG clearly outlanded him and got a knockdown. GGG was lucky to walk out of there with his belts.
I thought the judges got it right. 114-113 was too close but 115-112 was reasonable. 116-111 seemed correct to me.
3G left it close. That is what got him the fight, imo, along with the growing negative pr ducking 3G was garnering GingerHead.
There are poor decisions in boxing. Let's not create conspiracy theories about the ones they get right. 3G needs to be very dominant to hope for a decision victory v GingerHead though.
Then again, if we want to propagate conspiracy theories, maybe they will give the decision (if it gets to one) to 3G to create outrage in his Mexican fanbase and build an even bigger rematch.
Afterall, GingerHead is the one with the blemished record.
Nah, no one gets that lucky and I'm not naive enough to chalk it up to lucky scorecards. Is that what you're saying? Canelo has had criminal offense type scorecards. Nah, not buying it. You'll see when they read of the scores and know what i'm saying. No way GGG wins a decision
Yes, we will soon see, if it goes the distance.
Pac was far bigger than GingerHead is today when the judges gave Ramming Speed the close decision (which I agreed with). Nobody saw that one coming (including me).
GingerHead already has a loss and a draw on his record. A loss to 3G will not derail his career. A close decision loss in a great battle will lead to a bigger rematch.
My point is that we do not know what will happen in this fight. Concluding that the cards will go GingerHead's way may seem to be a safe bet, but it is not.
Btw, GingerHead cruised to victory v Trout in an open scoring scenario, and the Lara fight could have gone either way.
Tanzio wrote:
I thought the judges got it right. 114-113 was too close but 115-112 was reasonable. 116-111 seemed correct to me.
3G left it close. That is what got him the fight, imo, along with the growing negative pr ducking 3G was garnering GingerHead.
There are poor decisions in boxing. Let's not create conspiracy theories about the ones they get right. 3G needs to be very dominant to hope for a decision victory v GingerHead though.
Then again, if we want to propagate conspiracy theories, maybe they will give the decision (if it gets to one) to 3G to create outrage in his Mexican fanbase and build an even bigger rematch.
Afterall, GingerHead is the one with the blemished record.
Nah, no one gets that lucky and I'm not naive enough to chalk it up to lucky scorecards. Is that what you're saying? Canelo has had criminal offense type scorecards. Nah, not buying it. You'll see when they read of the scores and know what i'm saying. No way GGG wins a decision
Yes, we will soon see, if it goes the distance.
Pac was far bigger than GingerHead is today when the judges gave Ramming Speed the close decision (which I agreed with). Nobody saw that one coming (including me).
GingerHead already has a loss and a draw on his record. A loss to 3G will not derail his career. A close decision loss in a great battle will lead to a bigger rematch.
My point is that we do not know what will happen in this fight. Concluding that the cards will go GingerHead's way may seem to be a safe bet, but it is not.
Btw, GingerHead cruised to victory v Trout in an open scoring scenario, and the Lara fight could have gone either way.
You keep saying Canelo cruised to victory over Trout but that fight was way closer than judges had it. So i'm not sure what point you are making with that one.
caldo2025 wrote:
Nah, no one gets that lucky and I'm not naive enough to chalk it up to lucky scorecards. Is that what you're saying? Canelo has had criminal offense type scorecards. Nah, not buying it. You'll see when they read of the scores and know what i'm saying. No way GGG wins a decision
Yes, we will soon see, if it goes the distance.
Pac was far bigger than GingerHead is today when the judges gave Ramming Speed the close decision (which I agreed with). Nobody saw that one coming (including me).
GingerHead already has a loss and a draw on his record. A loss to 3G will not derail his career. A close decision loss in a great battle will lead to a bigger rematch.
My point is that we do not know what will happen in this fight. Concluding that the cards will go GingerHead's way may seem to be a safe bet, but it is not.
Btw, GingerHead cruised to victory v Trout in an open scoring scenario, and the Lara fight could have gone either way.
You keep saying Canelo cruised to victory over Trout but that fight was way closer than judges had it. So i'm not sure what point you are making with that one.
GingerHead was aware of the open scoring. He cruised to victory. If it would not have been open scoring he would have fought harder in the later rounds and likely would have at least knocked Trout down again if not scored a ktfo.
Tanzio wrote:
Yes, we will soon see, if it goes the distance.
Pac was far bigger than GingerHead is today when the judges gave Ramming Speed the close decision (which I agreed with). Nobody saw that one coming (including me).
GingerHead already has a loss and a draw on his record. A loss to 3G will not derail his career. A close decision loss in a great battle will lead to a bigger rematch.
My point is that we do not know what will happen in this fight. Concluding that the cards will go GingerHead's way may seem to be a safe bet, but it is not.
Btw, GingerHead cruised to victory v Trout in an open scoring scenario, and the Lara fight could have gone either way.
You keep saying Canelo cruised to victory over Trout but that fight was way closer than judges had it. So i'm not sure what point you are making with that one.
GingerHead was aware of the open scoring. He cruised to victory. If it would not have been open scoring he would have fought harder in the later rounds and likely would have at least knocked Trout down again if not scored a ktfo.
That's an interesting point I guess. I forgot about that stupid open scoring in that fight. I can't remember what scores were announced heading into the championship rounds in that one but the scores must have been lopsided at that point so Canelo didn't have to put his foot on the gas. Good point. I getcha.
caldo2025 wrote:
You keep saying Canelo cruised to victory over Trout but that fight was way closer than judges had it. So i'm not sure what point you are making with that one.
GingerHead was aware of the open scoring. He cruised to victory. If it would not have been open scoring he would have fought harder in the later rounds and likely would have at least knocked Trout down again if not scored a ktfo.
That's an interesting point I guess. I forgot about that stupid open scoring in that fight. I can't remember what scores were announced heading into the championship rounds in that one but the scores must have been lopsided at that point so Canelo didn't have to put his foot on the gas. Good point. I getcha.
After 8 rounds the judges had it 80-71, 78-73, 76-75. The fight was over given Trout's lack of pop.
Kalan wrote:Well... When Roy Jones reached 35 he was leveled by Antonio Tarver and Glen Johnson... His supporters say he was old, but his opponents were older.
Golovkin is undefeated at 35 like Roy was (1 DQ loss I won't count)... GGG has to perform like a virtuoso in order to get any credit at all... He's been chasing a Lineal Middleweight Title Fight for 7 years and would have gotten a chance when he was 28 if he were an American... This is a big fight like Hagler-Leonard, but will draw bigger numbers even though Leonard was magical box office... At 32 Hagler lost to a Welterweight coming off a 3-year-layoff for his 3rd defeat.. Golovkin is 18-0 in World Middleweight Title fights.. Hagler and Monzon aren't even close... Robinson was 3-3 in Middleweight Title Defenses.
That's why a lot of people say GGG is the best Middleweight ever. Unlike the above fighters he's never ducked anyone. He's just been ducked.
You still struggle with judging boxers by age. Every guy has there own timeline and should be judged on merit. Take into account there skillset and how it is effected by age etc.
Quoting age is pointless. Just give your opinion on how close the guy is to there prime/best level.
caldo2025 wrote: But after seeing Kovalev get knocked out recently it proved to me that anyone can go. Anyone.
You are the most blind-assed partisan I can imagine... Tony Weeks even admitted his was wrong to stop the fight... You can't stop somebody on illegal blows... Ward won his Kovalev fights because of corrupt officiating... End of story,
caldo2025 wrote: But after seeing Kovalev get knocked out recently it proved to me that anyone can go. Anyone.
You are the most blind-assed partisan I can imagine... Tony Weeks even admitted his was wrong to stop the fight... You can't stop somebody on illegal blows... Ward won his Kovalev fights because of corrupt officiating... End of story,
And you are the Boxrec GOAT crybaby, which is quite an accomplishment on this forum.
SenorPipino wrote:
If Jacobs could hang with him and get deprived of a deserved decision, I imagine the cagier, quicker Leonard would school him all night long.
WTF??
What exactly did Jacobs do to deserve to beat the champion? Or maybe you mean surviving to hear the final bell?
Decked in the 4th, wobbled badly in the ninth. Retreating while being jabbed to death.
Landed some solid counters in the later rds, but too little and too late.
SenorPipino wrote:I can't wait until Canelo finally puts an embarassing end to this ridiculous Golovkin myth.
When Gennady destroys Canelita, i'll be delighted to come back here to swim in your tears.
caldo2025 wrote: But after seeing Kovalev get knocked out recently it proved to me that anyone can go. Anyone.
You are the most blind-assed partisan I can imagine... Tony Weeks even admitted his was wrong to stop the fight... You can't stop somebody on illegal blows... Ward won his Kovalev fights because of corrupt officiating... End of story,
And you are the Boxrec GOAT crybaby, which is quite an accomplishment on this forum.
Well, at least he doesn't have to try hard and pretend on this forum, day in and day out, people laugh with him, instead of at him, Mr Tanzidiot, Tanzero, etc...
caldo2025 wrote: But after seeing Kovalev get knocked out recently it proved to me that anyone can go. Anyone.
You are the most blind-assed partisan I can imagine... Tony Weeks even admitted his was wrong to stop the fight... You can't stop somebody on illegal blows... Ward won his Kovalev fights because of corrupt officiating... End of story,
OH man, don't start that again. Really? I'm a Kovalev guy and i'm not dumb enough to believe what you're selling. Kovalev did worse than get knocked out...he got knocked out for not fighting back. That's right up there with "No Mas" if you ask me. I still love the guy but when the ref wasn't buying his acting job on the borderline low blows, he quit. He quit. He was out on his feet and had nothing.
You're NOT a Kovalev guy... You're a partisan who hates Eastern Europeans... You're just full of it... Everyone knows Kovalev was robbed in his last 2 fights but many partisan Americans just choose to remain blind as batshlt.. If you couldn't see that last punch landing 8 inches low there's something screwy wrong with your eyeballs.. Weeks even admitted he was wrong, but claimed to have missed the low blows.. What's he going to say "I saw them?" LOL
Kalan wrote:
You are the most blind-assed partisan I can imagine... Tony Weeks even admitted his was wrong to stop the fight... You can't stop somebody on illegal blows... Ward won his Kovalev fights because of corrupt officiating... End of story,
And you are the Boxrec GOAT crybaby, which is quite an accomplishment on this forum.
Well, at least he doesn't have to try hard and pretend on this forum, day in and day out, people laugh with him, instead of at him, Mr Tanzidiot, Tanzero, etc...
It's ok, crowdoh, the GOAT crybaby has plenty of Kleenex to share.
