Who got the most undeserving shot at the HW Championship?

[APerno]

Top five unworthy opponents, any opinions?

[Tomasino]

Top five unworthy opponents, any opinions?

Pete Radamacher

[Kalan]

Without a doubt Johnny Davis was the worst Heavyweight Title challenger... He was an extremely amateurish 3-3 when he challenged Joe Louis in what was his 4th stoppage loss in 7 fights... Joe finished Davis in 53 seconds, throwing one real punch.. The lack of success didn't discourage Davis. He continued his career until he got knocked out by a green Light Heavyweight for his 9th straight loss 8 by KO... He finished his career with 5 wins, 2 by KO -- 21 losses, 19 by KO...

Pete Rademacher was making his pro debut, but he was the Olympic Champion. He dominated Floyd Patterson for 2 rounds, connecting with a terrific right in the 2nd that scored a hard knockdown.. Patterson was very embarrassed and promptly turned the fight around, scoring 6 knockdowns and winning in 6 rounds.. Radmacher finished his career with 23 fights, winning 15 with 8 KO's... He beat George Chuvalo, Bobo Olson, Donnie Fleeman, LaMar Clark, and Willie Besmanoff -- fighters who were well known in his day.

[scartissue]

I would not put Johnny Davis on this list. When Louis 'fought' him it was never meant to be anything more than a 4 round exhibition on Joe's exhibition tour. It was not billed as a heavyweight championship contest and had no backing. Davis was a clubfighter and that was all, no matter what anyone says about "Well, the rules say..."

As for this list, I would add Dave Zyglewicz, Jean Pierre Coopman and Lucien Rodriguez as pathetic challengers and also say that Freddie Beshore and Al McCoy had lost 3 out of their last 4 and had no business fighting for the title.

[Seamus]

Terry Daniels was pretty bad.

[gilgamesh]

Does it have to be THE Heavyweight Championship or can it be just any 'ol HW Championship?

[APerno]

Interesting on Johnny Davis - BoxRec won't call it a World Title fight but the NYSAC did. - (I read once but haven't come across a second source to confirm) that the first Louis-Walcott encounter was meant to be an exhibition as well, but when New York again refuse to accept it as such, they, this time, changed the rounds to 15 and made it a full blown title fight anyway. Many at the time believed Walcott didn't deserve the shot and were calling the fight a farce.

A telling fact is that both of Louis' previous fights, Conn and Mauriello were at Yankee Stadium, as was his subsequent rematch with Walcott, but the first Walcott fight was staged at the much smaller venue The Garden, which seems to argue they weren't expecting much.

[APerno]

Does it have to be THE Heavyweight Championship or can it be just any 'ol HW Championship?

You assign the credibility as you see fit.

[gilgamesh]

Alright...

Eric Molina was a bad opponent for Deontay Wilder, and an even worse opponent for Anthony Joshua because by then there was really no excuse.

Albert Sosnowski and Francesco Pianeta for Vitali and Wladimir Klitschko respectively were pretty weak opponents.

Johnny Davis...if you want to count that as an official title defense. Not sure if it counts or not, apparently it counted to the New York State Athletic Commission by god

Abe Simon...especially the 2nd time he got a shot, as he'd already been thoroughly dominated by Louis once before, and was coming off a Split decision loss to a Journeyman.

[APerno]

I would not put Johnny Davis on this list. When Louis 'fought' him it was never meant to be anything more than a 4 round exhibition on Joe's exhibition tour. It was not billed as a heavyweight championship contest and had no backing. Davis was a clubfighter and that was all, no matter what anyone says about "Well, the rules say..."

As for this list, I would add Dave Zyglewicz, Jean Pierre Coopman and Lucien Rodriguez as pathetic challengers and also say that Freddie Beshore and Al McCoy had lost 3 out of their last 4 and had no business fighting for the title.

I have to look up these guys, don't know any of them; good choices.

I looked up Lucien Rodriguez, I have no clue whether he was any good, but he was in the mix for the EBU from '77 trough '84. - From time to time the American (World) champion has to give the foreign champ a shot. It doesn't usually work out well for the rest of the world, but we go through it anyway for the sake of fairness. Lucien was hanging around at the top of the EBU so he was the guy this time. - I agree he probably was unworthy but there was also probably an international protocol at play that gave the fight a false respectability.

[Kalan]

Interesting on Johnny Davis - BoxRec won't call it a World Title fight but the NYSAC did

Who was the sanctioning body??? the NYSAC or Boxrec? ... As abysmal as Davis was, he was a title challenger -- the absolute worst of all time.

[Kalan]

There were times when a lot of people were disgusted, appalled - and in disbelief about Heavyweight Title Challengers... Like when Tommy Morrison fought 2 flagrant cherry-picked challengers -- one of whom knocked Morrison out in the 1st round.

They weren't happy with many of George Foreman's title challengers.. "George is acting like he's still a challenger and can fight whoever he wants." Crawford Grimsley lasted 3 seconds in his next fight – after going the distance with Foreman.

Terry Daniels wasn't a favorite with the press.. He said he was going to beat Frazier because he was into “psycho cybernetics.” The press had a lot of fun with Ron Stander’s wife trashing her husband’s viability as a Heavyweight Title challenger.. “You don’t put a Volkswagon in the Indianapolis 500” she said.

Alfredo Evangelista got a lot of fun remarks when he challenged for the Title... Johnny Carson said, “Breaking news hot off the wire folks... Muhammad Ali and Alfredo Evangelista just won the Nobel Peace Prize – for Promoting Non-Violence in Boxing.”

Jim Murray wasn’t happy with challenger Joe Bugner.. “I don’t know why Bugner wore gloves. I guess his hands were cold.” ... Murray also wasn’t happy with Chuck Wepner, “Chuck may be slow, but he can’t punch.”

[Controversial]

Tim Tomashek was pretty undeserving as he wasn't even ranked and was literarily picked out of the crowd to fight Tommy Morrison for the WBO title after Mike Williams refused to fight at the last minute.

[davie]

Can I include Charles Martin, even though he "won" it?

[Lennox]

WBC Peter Okello, WBA Owen Beck

Tim Tomashek was ranked 213 when he was dragged out of the crowd when Mike Williams? refused to fight.

http://www.premierboxingorganisation.co ... EAVYWEIGHT

[BitPlayer]

Can I include Charles Martin, even though he "won" it?

Glazkov might be the worst mandatory challenger.

[davie]

Can I include Charles Martin, even though he "won" it?

Glazkov might be the worst mandatory challenger.

If Martin gets in, Glaskov is a shoo in

[handsofstone]

Razvan Cojanu is a recent one

[Bodyshot3]

Tim Tomashek was pretty undeserving as he wasn't even ranked and was literarily picked out of the crowd to fight Tommy Morrison for the WBO title after Mike Williams refused to fight at the last minute.

Good call Controversial....I truly hope Tim got paid well that night, it was extremely bizarre and almost a return to the fairground boxing booths.
More of a case of Tim being 'available' and 'brave' rather than undeserving to be kind?

I have always though that there have been worse Euro challengers than Rodriguez or Evangelista - both who could actually box a bit - and would say that Willi Fischer (fought Hide for the WBO) and sadly Scott Welch are well down there.

Jean Pierre Coopman - who was brave as hell but limited as heck - is widely regarded as Ali's ultimate 'gimme' after his war in Manila with Frazier. Coopman was not exactly setting the European scene ablaze when he got the call to fight Ali in Panama..but has dined out on it ever since

[BitPlayer]

I'm not sure last minute replacements should really count.

[Ambling Alp II]

Plus the WBO title was not considered a major title at the time. It was like the WBF is now. No real fan consider that a title fight at the time.

[Kalan]

Can I include Charles Martin, even though he "won" it?

NOPE!!!! ... He was 6'5" X 247 an undefeated in 25 fights... He must be deserving if he won it... If he were that bad he wouldn't have lasted 3 rounds

[Kalan]

Jack Palmer, who weighed 168, and was 23-8-3 according to boxrec when he got a crack at Tommy Burns... You wonder why Jack Twin Sullivan, who knocked Palmer out in his previous fight before Burns didn't get the call to fight Burns... Palmer never won again, finishing 23-11-3 after losing by 2nd round KO to a guy making his pro debut.

[Kalan]

Worse was John Finnegan, Jeffries' worst challenger... His record was 4-2-4 according to boxrec and he weighed 180 "looking like a boy" next to Jeffries... He lasted 44 seconds, was hit 3 times and knocked down 3 times.

[APerno]

Worse was John Finnegan, Jeffries' worst challenger... His record was 4-2-4 according to boxrec and he weighed 180 "looking like a boy" next to Jeffries... He lasted 44 seconds, was hit 3 times and knocked down 3 times.

Interesting list you dug up . . . do you think Dempsey-Miske was an 'exhibition' sold as a defense?