Talent...a myth?

[samdance]

Talent is largely relevant. That's hogwash to say talent isn't relevant. 10,000 hours of purposeful practice will make us all better. But I'd still be worse in basketball after 10,000 hours than a tall, extremely talented guy if he practiced 100 hours.

Based on what, let's do the maths;
You train 10000 hours over 2 years that's roughly 14 hours a day.
Talented guy trains 100 hours over 2 years that's roughly 14 minutes a day.
I would bet my life on it that you would be far better.

You would lose that bet big time. This book seems to be for people who believe "You can do anything and everything you want to do." It was a cute song by Harold Melvin and The Bluenotes, but by the time I was a young adult I knew it was BS. They made some money on the song. This author made some money on the book, both spewing total nonsense.

Let's stop debating then as my brain cannot comprehend how you can believe that you wouldn't be better

[Ossyrules]

Can't believe this is still going on...

Anyway I'm off to train for 10,000 hours. Keep your eyes on the tv I'm going to batter broner whose too lazy

[Tony1244]

Based on what, let's do the maths;
You train 10000 hours over 2 years that's roughly 14 hours a day.
Talented guy trains 100 hours over 2 years that's roughly 14 minutes a day.
I would bet my life on it that you would be far better.

You would lose that bet big time. This book seems to be for people who believe "You can do anything and everything you want to do." It was a cute song by Harold Melvin and The Bluenotes, but by the time I was a young adult I knew it was BS. They made some money on the song. This author made some money on the book, both spewing total nonsense.

Let's stop debating then as my brain cannot comprehend how you can believe that you wouldn't be better

Are you trolling or do you really believe this garbage?

I know some people just love saying ridiculous crap because they get a rise out of people. I fall for it all the time as I always take the bait. I confess I don't know if you are serious, but if you are serious I wouldn't trust you to wash my car.

[Tony1244]

Sam, you're a salesman, right?

[samdance]

Sam, you're a salesman, right?

Singer

[samdance]

You would lose that bet big time. This book seems to be for people who believe "You can do anything and everything you want to do." It was a cute song by Harold Melvin and The Bluenotes, but by the time I was a young adult I knew it was BS. They made some money on the song. This author made some money on the book, both spewing total nonsense.

Let's stop debating then as my brain cannot comprehend how you can believe that you wouldn't be better

Are you trolling or do you really believe this garbage?

I know some people just love saying ridiculous crap because they get a rise out of people. I fall for it all the time as I always take the bait. I confess I don't know if you are serious, but if you are serious I wouldn't trust you to wash my car.

If you believe the 100 hours vs 10000 hours, I wouldn't trust you to wash your own testicles

[Ossyrules]

Had a quick read while bored. Some crackers in this one

- phil Neville is world class

- I'd be a good as Lionel messi if I had the same opportunities and trained as many hours

- I'm a table tennis professional

- I'm a singer

Well played samdance

[Tony1244]

Let's stop debating then as my brain cannot comprehend how you can believe that you wouldn't be better

Are you trolling or do you really believe this garbage?

I know some people just love saying ridiculous crap because they get a rise out of people. I fall for it all the time as I always take the bait. I confess I don't know if you are serious, but if you are serious I wouldn't trust you to wash my car.

If you believe the 100 hours vs 10000 hours, I wouldn't trust you to wash your own testicles

So if almost anyone throws for 10,000 hours they can become a major league pitcher? If anyone spars and does boxing workouts for 10,000 hours they can be a contender?

Ah, you've got to be pulling our legs.The question is why?

[samdance]

Had a quick read while bored. Some crackers in this one

- phil Neville is world class

- I'd be a good as Lionel messi if I had the same opportunities and trained as many hours

- I'm a table tennis professional

- I'm a singer

Well played samdance

Bloody hell that was a quick read, you made more errors in one single post than jip makes in an entire thread...good going

[punchoutsb]

I love your passion for the topic, but I do think you've bought in a bit too much.

Every set of skills requires some form of physical, mental, or even spiritual ability. Ability and skill (and they can be called different names) are not the same thing. No one is born skilled; but we are born with different capacities both mental and physical. A kid with a higher amount of fast twitch muscle fibers will be faster than a kid with more slow twitch. People will say the faster kid is "naturally gifted" or "naturally talented" because he is able to learn the skill and perform at a higher level more quickly. Again, it is clear, even among pre-school children that they have different ability levels.

I've already shared the meta analysis of 88 scientific studies (not anecdotes) which show you can expect an 18% improvement in sports performance through directed practice. 18% is a HUGE improvement, but depending on your starting point it may not make you world class. Surely you can see more of a difference between Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Andrew Hartley that just 10,000 hours of practice?

Malcolm Gladwell is probably the best known of the 10,000 hour guys. His book Outliers is tremendous. Here's what he himself has to say:

There is a lot of confusion about the 10,000 rule that I talk about in Outliers. It doesn't apply to sports. And practice isn't a SUFFICIENT condition for success. I could play chess for 100 years and I'll never be a grandmaster. The point is simply that natural ability requires a huge investment of time in order to be made manifest. Unfortunately, sometimes complex ideas get oversimplified in translation.

The entire point is that hours and hours and hours of purposeful, directed practice will make you better but there is absolutely no proof that it will make you great. There is no denying that people are different; we have different heights, weights, sizes, muscle types, frames, etc etc etc. These attributes play in to whether or not someone can reach greatness. Hard work will make ANYONE better, but hard work will not make EVERYONE great.

I love the 10,000 hour concept, and I 100% believe that hard work in a directed manner will lead to self improvement. Self improvement and expertise/greatness are not the same thing.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I love your passion for the topic, but I do think you've bought in a bit too much.

Every set of skills requires some form of physical, mental, or even spiritual ability. Ability and skill (and they can be called different names) are not the same thing. No one is born skilled; but we are born with different capacities both mental and physical. A kid with a higher amount of fast twitch muscle fibers will be faster than a kid with more slow twitch. People will say the faster kid is "naturally gifted" or "naturally talented" because he is able to learn the skill and perform at a higher level more quickly. Again, it is clear, even among pre-school children that they have different ability levels.

I've already shared the meta analysis of 88 scientific studies (not anecdotes) which show you can expect an 18% improvement in sports performance through directed practice. 18% is a HUGE improvement, but depending on your starting point it may not make you world class. Surely you can see more of a difference between Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Andrew Hartley that just 10,000 hours of practice?

Malcolm Gladwell is probably the best known of the 10,000 hour guys. His book Outliers is tremendous. Here's what he himself has to say:

There is a lot of confusion about the 10,000 rule that I talk about in Outliers. It doesn't apply to sports. And practice isn't a SUFFICIENT condition for success. I could play chess for 100 years and I'll never be a grandmaster. The point is simply that natural ability requires a huge investment of time in order to be made manifest. Unfortunately, sometimes complex ideas get oversimplified in translation.

The entire point is that hours and hours and hours of purposeful, directed practice will make you better but there is absolutely no proof that it will make you great. There is no denying that people are different; we have different heights, weights, sizes, muscle types, frames, etc etc etc. These attributes play in to whether or not someone can reach greatness. Hard work will make ANYONE better, but hard work will not make EVERYONE great.

I love the 10,000 hour concept, and I 100% believe that hard work in a directed manner will lead to self improvement. Self improvement and expertise/greatness are not the same thing.

That makes perfect sense, then again, you're sane.

[samdance]

Are you trolling or do you really believe this garbage?

I know some people just love saying ridiculous crap because they get a rise out of people. I fall for it all the time as I always take the bait. I confess I don't know if you are serious, but if you are serious I wouldn't trust you to wash my car.

If you believe the 100 hours vs 10000 hours, I wouldn't trust you to wash your own testicles

So if almost anyone throws for 10,000 hours they can become a major league pitcher? If anyone spars and does boxing workouts for 10,000 hours they can be a contender?

Ah, you've got to be pulling our legs.The question is why?

No not at all the practice would have to be purposeful, making improvements every day

[samdance]

I love your passion for the topic, but I do think you've bought in a bit too much.

Every set of skills requires some form of physical, mental, or even spiritual ability. Ability and skill (and they can be called different names) are not the same thing. No one is born skilled; but we are born with different capacities both mental and physical. A kid with a higher amount of fast twitch muscle fibers will be faster than a kid with more slow twitch. People will say the faster kid is "naturally gifted" or "naturally talented" because he is able to learn the skill and perform at a higher level more quickly. Again, it is clear, even among pre-school children that they have different ability levels.

I've already shared the meta analysis of 88 scientific studies (not anecdotes) which show you can expect an 18% improvement in sports performance through directed practice. 18% is a HUGE improvement, but depending on your starting point it may not make you world class. Surely you can see more of a difference between Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Andrew Hartley that just 10,000 hours of practice?

Malcolm Gladwell is probably the best known of the 10,000 hour guys. His book Outliers is tremendous. Here's what he himself has to say:

There is a lot of confusion about the 10,000 rule that I talk about in Outliers. It doesn't apply to sports. And practice isn't a SUFFICIENT condition for success. I could play chess for 100 years and I'll never be a grandmaster. The point is simply that natural ability requires a huge investment of time in order to be made manifest. Unfortunately, sometimes complex ideas get oversimplified in translation.

The entire point is that hours and hours and hours of purposeful, directed practice will make you better but there is absolutely no proof that it will make you great. There is no denying that people are different; we have different heights, weights, sizes, muscle types, frames, etc etc etc. These attributes play in to whether or not someone can reach greatness. Hard work will make ANYONE better, but hard work will not make EVERYONE great.

I love the 10,000 hour concept, and I 100% believe that hard work in a directed manner will lead to self improvement. Self improvement and expertise/greatness are not the same thing.

I agree with most of what you have eloquently stated, my logic tells me that if the activity is as complex as some sports, there are always an incredible amount of tiny improvements possible to become better and better.
Therefore in my view if those 10000 hours were used correctly, it is inevitable that you would become world class

[Ossyrules]

Had a quick read while bored. Some crackers in this one

- phil Neville is world class

- I'd be a good as Lionel messi if I had the same opportunities and trained as many hours

- I'm a table tennis professional

- I'm a singer

Well played samdance

Bloody hell that was a quick read, you made more errors in one single post than jip makes in an entire thread...good going

Keep believing in yourself and keep practicing boy

You've provided some forum greatness here. We owe you

#legacy

[Ossyrules]

I love your passion for the topic, but I do think you've bought in a bit too much.

Every set of skills requires some form of physical, mental, or even spiritual ability. Ability and skill (and they can be called different names) are not the same thing. No one is born skilled; but we are born with different capacities both mental and physical. A kid with a higher amount of fast twitch muscle fibers will be faster than a kid with more slow twitch. People will say the faster kid is "naturally gifted" or "naturally talented" because he is able to learn the skill and perform at a higher level more quickly. Again, it is clear, even among pre-school children that they have different ability levels.

I've already shared the meta analysis of 88 scientific studies (not anecdotes) which show you can expect an 18% improvement in sports performance through directed practice. 18% is a HUGE improvement, but depending on your starting point it may not make you world class. Surely you can see more of a difference between Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Andrew Hartley that just 10,000 hours of practice?

Malcolm Gladwell is probably the best known of the 10,000 hour guys. His book Outliers is tremendous. Here's what he himself has to say:

There is a lot of confusion about the 10,000 rule that I talk about in Outliers. It doesn't apply to sports. And practice isn't a SUFFICIENT condition for success. I could play chess for 100 years and I'll never be a grandmaster. The point is simply that natural ability requires a huge investment of time in order to be made manifest. Unfortunately, sometimes complex ideas get oversimplified in translation.

The entire point is that hours and hours and hours of purposeful, directed practice will make you better but there is absolutely no proof that it will make you great. There is no denying that people are different; we have different heights, weights, sizes, muscle types, frames, etc etc etc. These attributes play in to whether or not someone can reach greatness. Hard work will make ANYONE better, but hard work will not make EVERYONE great.

I love the 10,000 hour concept, and I 100% believe that hard work in a directed manner will lead to self improvement. Self improvement and expertise/greatness are not the same thing.

I agree with most of what you have eloquently stated, my logic tells me that if the activity is as complex as some sports, there are always an incredible amount of tiny improvements possible to become better and better.
Therefore in my view if those 10000 hours were used correctly, it is inevitable that you would become world class

- if those 10000 hours were used correctly, it is inevitable that you would become world class

Another cracker to add to the book of samism's

#worldclass

[samdance]

Had a quick read while bored. Some crackers in this one

- phil Neville is world class

- I'd be a good as Lionel messi if I had the same opportunities and trained as many hours

- I'm a table tennis professional

- I'm a singer

Well played samdance

Bloody hell that was a quick read, you made more errors in one single post than jip makes in an entire thread...good going

Keep believing in yourself and keep practicing boy

You've provided some forum greatness here. We owe you

#legacy

Cheers beautiful

[Tony1244]

If you believe the 100 hours vs 10000 hours, I wouldn't trust you to wash your own testicles

So if almost anyone throws for 10,000 hours they can become a major league pitcher? If anyone spars and does boxing workouts for 10,000 hours they can be a contender?

Ah, you've got to be pulling our legs.The question is why?

No not at all the practice would have to be purposeful, making improvements every day

Is there an age limit in all this buddy? Can I become a top figure skater or pitcher in my 50s with a great 10,000 hours? You've opened up so many doors for me.

[punchoutsb]

I love your passion for the topic, but I do think you've bought in a bit too much.

Every set of skills requires some form of physical, mental, or even spiritual ability. Ability and skill (and they can be called different names) are not the same thing. No one is born skilled; but we are born with different capacities both mental and physical. A kid with a higher amount of fast twitch muscle fibers will be faster than a kid with more slow twitch. People will say the faster kid is "naturally gifted" or "naturally talented" because he is able to learn the skill and perform at a higher level more quickly. Again, it is clear, even among pre-school children that they have different ability levels.

I've already shared the meta analysis of 88 scientific studies (not anecdotes) which show you can expect an 18% improvement in sports performance through directed practice. 18% is a HUGE improvement, but depending on your starting point it may not make you world class. Surely you can see more of a difference between Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Andrew Hartley that just 10,000 hours of practice?

Malcolm Gladwell is probably the best known of the 10,000 hour guys. His book Outliers is tremendous. Here's what he himself has to say:

There is a lot of confusion about the 10,000 rule that I talk about in Outliers. It doesn't apply to sports. And practice isn't a SUFFICIENT condition for success. I could play chess for 100 years and I'll never be a grandmaster. The point is simply that natural ability requires a huge investment of time in order to be made manifest. Unfortunately, sometimes complex ideas get oversimplified in translation.

The entire point is that hours and hours and hours of purposeful, directed practice will make you better but there is absolutely no proof that it will make you great. There is no denying that people are different; we have different heights, weights, sizes, muscle types, frames, etc etc etc. These attributes play in to whether or not someone can reach greatness. Hard work will make ANYONE better, but hard work will not make EVERYONE great.

I love the 10,000 hour concept, and I 100% believe that hard work in a directed manner will lead to self improvement. Self improvement and expertise/greatness are not the same thing.

I agree with most of what you have eloquently stated, my logic tells me that if the activity is as complex as some sports, there are always an incredible amount of tiny improvements possible to become better and better.
Therefore in my view if those 10000 hours were used correctly, it is inevitable that you would become world class

Your view is very optimistic. Science does not agree, but if we shoot for the moon even if we miss we land among the stars.

[Counter-puncher]

I love your passion for the topic, but I do think you've bought in a bit too much.

Every set of skills requires some form of physical, mental, or even spiritual ability. Ability and skill (and they can be called different names) are not the same thing. No one is born skilled; but we are born with different capacities both mental and physical. A kid with a higher amount of fast twitch muscle fibers will be faster than a kid with more slow twitch. People will say the faster kid is "naturally gifted" or "naturally talented" because he is able to learn the skill and perform at a higher level more quickly. Again, it is clear, even among pre-school children that they have different ability levels.

I've already shared the meta analysis of 88 scientific studies (not anecdotes) which show you can expect an 18% improvement in sports performance through directed practice. 18% is a HUGE improvement, but depending on your starting point it may not make you world class. Surely you can see more of a difference between Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Andrew Hartley that just 10,000 hours of practice?

Malcolm Gladwell is probably the best known of the 10,000 hour guys. His book Outliers is tremendous. Here's what he himself has to say:

There is a lot of confusion about the 10,000 rule that I talk about in Outliers. It doesn't apply to sports. And practice isn't a SUFFICIENT condition for success. I could play chess for 100 years and I'll never be a grandmaster. The point is simply that natural ability requires a huge investment of time in order to be made manifest. Unfortunately, sometimes complex ideas get oversimplified in translation.

The entire point is that hours and hours and hours of purposeful, directed practice will make you better but there is absolutely no proof that it will make you great. There is no denying that people are different; we have different heights, weights, sizes, muscle types, frames, etc etc etc. These attributes play in to whether or not someone can reach greatness. Hard work will make ANYONE better, but hard work will not make EVERYONE great.

I love the 10,000 hour concept, and I 100% believe that hard work in a directed manner will lead to self improvement. Self improvement and expertise/greatness are not the same thing.

my logic tells me......

Remember what I said earlier folks, that phrase 'cognitive bias of illusory superiority'?

[samdance]

I love your passion for the topic, but I do think you've bought in a bit too much.

Every set of skills requires some form of physical, mental, or even spiritual ability. Ability and skill (and they can be called different names) are not the same thing. No one is born skilled; but we are born with different capacities both mental and physical. A kid with a higher amount of fast twitch muscle fibers will be faster than a kid with more slow twitch. People will say the faster kid is "naturally gifted" or "naturally talented" because he is able to learn the skill and perform at a higher level more quickly. Again, it is clear, even among pre-school children that they have different ability levels.

I've already shared the meta analysis of 88 scientific studies (not anecdotes) which show you can expect an 18% improvement in sports performance through directed practice. 18% is a HUGE improvement, but depending on your starting point it may not make you world class. Surely you can see more of a difference between Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Andrew Hartley that just 10,000 hours of practice?

Malcolm Gladwell is probably the best known of the 10,000 hour guys. His book Outliers is tremendous. Here's what he himself has to say:



The entire point is that hours and hours and hours of purposeful, directed practice will make you better but there is absolutely no proof that it will make you great. There is no denying that people are different; we have different heights, weights, sizes, muscle types, frames, etc etc etc. These attributes play in to whether or not someone can reach greatness. Hard work will make ANYONE better, but hard work will not make EVERYONE great.

I love the 10,000 hour concept, and I 100% believe that hard work in a directed manner will lead to self improvement. Self improvement and expertise/greatness are not the same thing.

I agree with most of what you have eloquently stated, my logic tells me that if the activity is as complex as some sports, there are always an incredible amount of tiny improvements possible to become better and better.
Therefore in my view if those 10000 hours were used correctly, it is inevitable that you would become world class

Your view is very optimistic. Science does not agree, but if we shoot for the moon even if we miss we land among the stars.

Science did not agree with evolution once apon a time, I'll wave at you from the moon

[Counter-puncher]

Aaaaaand another example

[samdance]

I love your passion for the topic, but I do think you've bought in a bit too much.

Every set of skills requires some form of physical, mental, or even spiritual ability. Ability and skill (and they can be called different names) are not the same thing. No one is born skilled; but we are born with different capacities both mental and physical. A kid with a higher amount of fast twitch muscle fibers will be faster than a kid with more slow twitch. People will say the faster kid is "naturally gifted" or "naturally talented" because he is able to learn the skill and perform at a higher level more quickly. Again, it is clear, even among pre-school children that they have different ability levels.

I've already shared the meta analysis of 88 scientific studies (not anecdotes) which show you can expect an 18% improvement in sports performance through directed practice. 18% is a HUGE improvement, but depending on your starting point it may not make you world class. Surely you can see more of a difference between Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Andrew Hartley that just 10,000 hours of practice?

Malcolm Gladwell is probably the best known of the 10,000 hour guys. His book Outliers is tremendous. Here's what he himself has to say:



The entire point is that hours and hours and hours of purposeful, directed practice will make you better but there is absolutely no proof that it will make you great. There is no denying that people are different; we have different heights, weights, sizes, muscle types, frames, etc etc etc. These attributes play in to whether or not someone can reach greatness. Hard work will make ANYONE better, but hard work will not make EVERYONE great.

I love the 10,000 hour concept, and I 100% believe that hard work in a directed manner will lead to self improvement. Self improvement and expertise/greatness are not the same thing.

my logic tells me......

Remember what I said earlier folks, that phrase 'cognitive bias of illusory superiority'?

Do you understand the irony of you using that haha

[punchoutsb]

I agree with most of what you have eloquently stated, my logic tells me that if the activity is as complex as some sports, there are always an incredible amount of tiny improvements possible to become better and better.
Therefore in my view if those 10000 hours were used correctly, it is inevitable that you would become world class

Your view is very optimistic. Science does not agree, but if we shoot for the moon even if we miss we land among the stars.

Science did not agree with evolution once apon a time, I'll wave at you from the moon

Will you be singing or playing table tennis up there?

But seriously, hard work and directed practice should be encouraged. If the 10,000 "rule" encourages people to work harder than I'm for it. What I'm not for is unrealistic expectations which can crush a young person when they don't achieve them. Do the hard work and improve yourself. 10,000 hours won't make you Michael Jordon. 10,000 hours, superior genetics, desire, and willpower may, but you only have control of one of those four variables.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Hopefully he's just trolling because I hate to think there is someone out there who believes that a midget who decides he wants to enter a dunk contest can practice for 10, 000 hours and start throwing down windmills.

[samdance]

Aaaaaand another example

I have no illusions that I am brighter than everyone here, I have my beliefs that I will defend and argue as I would rather be an optimist than a pessimist. A trait that I find endearing in other people coincidently