Talent...a myth?

[samdance]

Hopefully he's just trolling because I hate to think there is someone out there who believes that a midget who decides he wants to enter a dunk contest can practice for 10, 000 hours and start throwing down windmills.

Your stupidity is starting to offend me, I have stated several times that there are limitations, obviously if someone has a disability there are huge limitations

[samdance]

Your view is very optimistic. Science does not agree, but if we shoot for the moon even if we miss we land among the stars.

Science did not agree with evolution once apon a time, I'll wave at you from the moon

Will you be singing or playing table tennis up there?

But seriously, hard work and directed practice should be encouraged. If the 10,000 "rule" encourages people to work harder than I'm for it. What I'm not for is unrealistic expectations which can crush a young person when they don't achieve them. Do the hard work and improve yourself. 10,000 hours won't make you Michael Jordon. 10,000 hours, superior genetics, desire, and willpower may, but you only have control of one of those four variables.

Work hard enough and you will more than likely get paid to do what you have chosen

[punchoutsb]

Science did not agree with evolution once apon a time, I'll wave at you from the moon

Will you be singing or playing table tennis up there?

But seriously, hard work and directed practice should be encouraged. If the 10,000 "rule" encourages people to work harder than I'm for it. What I'm not for is unrealistic expectations which can crush a young person when they don't achieve them. Do the hard work and improve yourself. 10,000 hours won't make you Michael Jordon. 10,000 hours, superior genetics, desire, and willpower may, but you only have control of one of those four variables.

Work hard enough and you will more than likely get paid to do what you have chosen

There's a difference between getting paid and being world class or elite. A big difference.

[samdance]

Just to validate my claims, see below

Was a couple of years ago but I'm slowly improving and getting paid more and more as I go.
https://youtu.be/gCNsF7rQxe0

Started table tennis again last year after having like 13 years out

https://www.tabletennis365.com/northher ... nce/180495

[Controversial]

Not a well known sport in the USA but Ronnie O'Sullivan is a big name in snooker in the UK (harder slower version of pool). He made his first century break aged 10 not long after taking the sport up. That is an amazing achievement, plenty of guys have played snooker for 50+ years and never got close to that, he done it shortly after starting the sport. Ronnie is said to be the most naturally gifted snooker player in history. His first maximum break he was aged 15, there are many current and retired professional snooker players who have never made a maximum break. Its a game you need to practice yet he has taken long breaks from the sport and stopped practicing only to comeback and win tournaments. Proof of someone just naturally gifted (talented) at a sport.

[Counter-puncher]

Not a well known sport in the USA but Ronnie O'Sullivan is a big name in snooker in the UK (harder slower version of pool). He made his first century break aged 10 not long after taking the sport up. That is an amazing achievement, plenty of guys have played snooker for 50+ years and never got close to that, he done it shortly after starting the sport. Ronnie is said to be the most naturally gifted snooker player in history. His first maximum break he was aged 15, there are many current and retired professional snooker players who have never made a maximum break. Its a game you need to practice yet he has taken long breaks from the sport and stopped practicing only to comeback and win tournaments. Proof of someone just naturally gifted (talented) at a sport.

O'Sullivan is an excellent example

[samdance]

Not a well known sport in the USA but Ronnie O'Sullivan is a big name in snooker in the UK (harder slower version of pool). He made his first century break aged 10 not long after taking the sport up. That is an amazing achievement, plenty of guys have played snooker for 50+ years and never got close to that, he done it shortly after starting the sport. Ronnie is said to be the most naturally gifted snooker player in history. His first maximum break he was aged 15, there are many current and retired professional snooker players who have never made a maximum break. Its a game you need to practice yet he has taken long breaks from the sport and stopped practicing only to comeback and win tournaments. Proof of someone just naturally gifted (talented) at a sport.

After reading bounce
https://mobile.twitter.com/ronnieo147/s ... 9152702465

[Controversial]

Not a well known sport in the USA but Ronnie O'Sullivan is a big name in snooker in the UK (harder slower version of pool). He made his first century break aged 10 not long after taking the sport up. That is an amazing achievement, plenty of guys have played snooker for 50+ years and never got close to that, he done it shortly after starting the sport. Ronnie is said to be the most naturally gifted snooker player in history. His first maximum break he was aged 15, there are many current and retired professional snooker players who have never made a maximum break. Its a game you need to practice yet he has taken long breaks from the sport and stopped practicing only to comeback and win tournaments. Proof of someone just naturally gifted (talented) at a sport.

After reading bounce
https://mobile.twitter.com/ronnieo147/s ... 9152702465

As I said before he made his first century break shortly after he started playing the game, plenty get nowhere near that level after playing for decades. The point being he done something extremely difficult with nowhere near 10,000 hours practice. He is naturally gifted.

[samdance]

Not a well known sport in the USA but Ronnie O'Sullivan is a big name in snooker in the UK (harder slower version of pool). He made his first century break aged 10 not long after taking the sport up. That is an amazing achievement, plenty of guys have played snooker for 50+ years and never got close to that, he done it shortly after starting the sport. Ronnie is said to be the most naturally gifted snooker player in history. His first maximum break he was aged 15, there are many current and retired professional snooker players who have never made a maximum break. Its a game you need to practice yet he has taken long breaks from the sport and stopped practicing only to comeback and win tournaments. Proof of someone just naturally gifted (talented) at a sport.

After reading bounce
https://mobile.twitter.com/ronnieo147/s ... 9152702465

As I said before he made his first century break shortly after he started playing the game, plenty get nowhere near that level after playing for decades. The point being he done something extremely difficult with nowhere near 10,000 hours practice. He is naturally gifted.

If you predict that Ronnie began playing at around 5 (he does state in an interview that his dad used the snooker hall as a crèche), and his first maximum was when he was 15, that is a sufficient amount of time to have put in 10000 hours. His dad also built him a shed in the garden and put a table in it, how many kids had that unlimited opportunity to practice...not many I bet.
The more you read up on examples like this(child prodigies) the more you start to see there is something in this.
Read up on Mozart...it's fascinating

[Kalan]

Your view is very optimistic. Science does not agree, but if we shoot for the moon even if we miss we land among the stars.

Science did not agree with evolution once apon a time, I'll wave at you from the moon

Will you be singing or playing table tennis up there?

But seriously, hard work and directed practice should be encouraged. If the 10,000 "rule" encourages people to work harder than I'm for it. What I'm not for is unrealistic expectations which can crush a young person when they don't achieve them. Do the hard work and improve yourself. 10,000 hours won't make you Michael Jordon. 10,000 hours, superior genetics, desire, and willpower may, but you only have control of one of those four variables.

punchoutsb wrote... "If we shoot for the moon even if we miss we land among the stars"

We land nowhere... That's like shooting at a duck and hitting the moon -- since the closest star is million of times as far away as the moon.

If you're looking for a feat that will prove impossible for humans -- star travel is a good bet... It's pure fantasy -- like time travel or becoming invisible.

[Controversial]

After reading bounce
https://mobile.twitter.com/ronnieo147/s ... 9152702465

As I said before he made his first century break shortly after he started playing the game, plenty get nowhere near that level after playing for decades. The point being he done something extremely difficult with nowhere near 10,000 hours practice. He is naturally gifted.

If you predict that Ronnie began playing at around 5 (he does state in an interview that his dad used the snooker hall as a crèche), and his first maximum was when he was 15, that is a sufficient amount of time to have put in 10000 hours. His dad also built him a shed in the garden and put a table in it, how many kids had that unlimited opportunity to practice...not many I bet.
The more you read up on examples like this(child prodigies) the more you start to see there is something in this.
Read up on Mozart...it's fascinating

He started at 7 and he made a 100 break aged 10. Have you played snooker to understand how rare and difficult that is especially as a kid when you are short and playing on a full size snooker table? He would have to have played snooker for over 9 hours a day, every day of the year for 3 years to play for 10,000 hours, unlikely don't you think considering he was at school. There have been people who have played for decades without getting close to that. There are professional snooker players who have gone the entire career without making a maximum break. The point still stands, he is naturally gifted at the sport.

[man]

Anyone who has read the Matthew Syed book bounce or other books that argue the same theory will be aware of the theory that innate talent is a myth.
It argues that no one is born superior in skill than anyone else, and that everything is down to hours and hours of purposeful practice.

I am interested to hear people's opinions on this as I forever hear "that boxer wasted his talent" or rjj was naturally gifted etc.

obviously untrue, since people are
obviously different and competitive
settings will select for that difference
over time.

ask the manager of a gym on how it
feels to have this one outstanding kid
among the many who try.

if that doesn't sound convincing, have
a look at people who can try as hard as
they want and never will even resemble
a boxer. if the no-talent idea was true,
they wouldn't exist.

[gp.]

Just to validate my claims, see below

Was a couple of years ago but I'm slowly improving and getting paid more and more as I go.
https://youtu.be/gCNsF7rQxe0

Started table tennis again last year after having like 13 years out

https://www.tabletennis365.com/northher ... nce/180495

Bedwell Table Tennis club's fifth team, eh? Well, that seals it for me. Clearly you walk with the ping-pong gods.

[gp.]

Science did not agree with evolution once apon a time, I'll wave at you from the moon

Will you be singing or playing table tennis up there?

But seriously, hard work and directed practice should be encouraged. If the 10,000 "rule" encourages people to work harder than I'm for it. What I'm not for is unrealistic expectations which can crush a young person when they don't achieve them. Do the hard work and improve yourself. 10,000 hours won't make you Michael Jordon. 10,000 hours, superior genetics, desire, and willpower may, but you only have control of one of those four variables.

Work hard enough and you will more than likely get paid to do what you have chosen

Have you revised your claim to this now? It's still not true, but it's more believable.

Leaving aside the nonsense that anyone can become the best in the world, which you seem to have abandoned, this is true of some things. It's not true of sports. However hard I worked I would never have become good enough to play basketball or football professionally.

Singing, yes, it's probably true. The average person (not anyone - not the tone deaf) can work really hard and become good enough to be paid for singing at old people's homes in Stevenage, as you have. Well done. The fact is that there are people who could walk off the street and do it better than you, but its such a terrible job they don't want to. They do much better as accountants. or roofers, or whatever it is they do do.

[samdance]

Just to validate my claims, see below

Was a couple of years ago but I'm slowly improving and getting paid more and more as I go.
https://youtu.be/gCNsF7rQxe0

Started table tennis again last year after having like 13 years out

https://www.tabletennis365.com/northher ... nce/180495

Bedwell Table Tennis club's fifth team, eh? Well, that seals it for me. Clearly you walk with the ping-pong gods.

Haha what a silly person you are, I hadn't played for 13 years and finished the season with only 2 defeats in the 2nd tier, a majority of these players were playing when I was a child and haven't stopped.

[samdance]

Will you be singing or playing table tennis up there?

But seriously, hard work and directed practice should be encouraged. If the 10,000 "rule" encourages people to work harder than I'm for it. What I'm not for is unrealistic expectations which can crush a young person when they don't achieve them. Do the hard work and improve yourself. 10,000 hours won't make you Michael Jordon. 10,000 hours, superior genetics, desire, and willpower may, but you only have control of one of those four variables.

Work hard enough and you will more than likely get paid to do what you have chosen

Have you revised your claim to this now? It's still not true, but it's more believable.

Leaving aside the nonsense that anyone can become the best in the world, which you seem to have abandoned, this is true of some things. It's not true of sports. However hard I worked I would never have become good enough to play basketball or football professionally.

Singing, yes, it's probably true. The average person (not anyone - not the tone deaf) can work really hard and become good enough to be paid for singing at old people's homes in Stevenage, as you have. Well done. The fact is that there are people who could walk off the street and do it better than you, but its such a terrible job they don't want to. They do much better as accountants. or roofers, or whatever it is they do do.

I understand that you would probably never become professional as you clearly have no self confidence.

Haha I currently live and work in Mallorca getting paid per show and am fully booked until November, I live looking out onto the beach and have all day to sunbathe and practice my crafts.
I would say that in my experience a lot of people envy this life.
What do you do?

[samdance]

As I said before he made his first century break shortly after he started playing the game, plenty get nowhere near that level after playing for decades. The point being he done something extremely difficult with nowhere near 10,000 hours practice. He is naturally gifted.

If you predict that Ronnie began playing at around 5 (he does state in an interview that his dad used the snooker hall as a crèche), and his first maximum was when he was 15, that is a sufficient amount of time to have put in 10000 hours. His dad also built him a shed in the garden and put a table in it, how many kids had that unlimited opportunity to practice...not many I bet.
The more you read up on examples like this(child prodigies) the more you start to see there is something in this.
Read up on Mozart...it's fascinating

He started at 7 and he made a 100 break aged 10. Have you played snooker to understand how rare and difficult that is especially as a kid when you are short and playing on a full size snooker table? He would have to have played snooker for over 9 hours a day, every day of the year for 3 years to play for 10,000 hours, unlikely don't you think considering he was at school. There have been people who have played for decades without getting close to that. There are professional snooker players who have gone the entire career without making a maximum break. The point still stands, he is naturally gifted at the sport.

I don't know a huge amount about snooker but it seems unlikely to me that there are professionals that have never made a century break, can you provide any examples? Making a century does not make you elite, making a 147 does and he only did that at 15

[gp.]

Just to validate my claims, see below

Was a couple of years ago but I'm slowly improving and getting paid more and more as I go.
https://youtu.be/gCNsF7rQxe0

Started table tennis again last year after having like 13 years out

https://www.tabletennis365.com/northher ... nce/180495

Bedwell Table Tennis club's fifth team, eh? Well, that seals it for me. Clearly you walk with the ping-pong gods.

Haha what a silly person you are, I hadn't played for 13 years and finished the season with only 2 defeats in the 2nd tier, a majority of these players were playing when I was a child and haven't stopped.

Bit "selective" with the facts there aren't you? According to you own link you had 3 wins and 3 defeats in the glorified heights of the Bedwell second team. Anyway, if your opponents have been practicing all that time surely they ought to be much better than you according to your theory?

[gp.]

Work hard enough and you will more than likely get paid to do what you have chosen

Have you revised your claim to this now? It's still not true, but it's more believable.

Leaving aside the nonsense that anyone can become the best in the world, which you seem to have abandoned, this is true of some things. It's not true of sports. However hard I worked I would never have become good enough to play basketball or football professionally.

Singing, yes, it's probably true. The average person (not anyone - not the tone deaf) can work really hard and become good enough to be paid for singing at old people's homes in Stevenage, as you have. Well done. The fact is that there are people who could walk off the street and do it better than you, but its such a terrible job they don't want to. They do much better as accountants. or roofers, or whatever it is they do do.

I understand that you would probably never become professional as you clearly have no self confidence.

Haha I currently live and work in Mallorca getting paid per show and am fully booked until November, I live looking out onto the beach and have all day to sunbathe and practice my crafts.
I would say that in my experience a lot of people envy this life.
What do you do?

I earn quite a lot of money writing computer software.

Do you even realise that Mallorca is a place where any idiot can make a living as an "entertainer"? Las Vegas it is not, mate. It's only in your head that people envy you. If you want to go and live hand to mouth in a shitty holiday resort, that's great, go ahead. Please don't make the mistake of thinking everybody wants to do it.

How do you fit that in with playing ping-pong in Stevenage, by the way? Do Bedwell fifth team lay on a private jet when they need you?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

He said he worked 13 hour days. Now he lays on the beach all day.

[Controversial]

If you predict that Ronnie began playing at around 5 (he does state in an interview that his dad used the snooker hall as a crèche), and his first maximum was when he was 15, that is a sufficient amount of time to have put in 10000 hours. His dad also built him a shed in the garden and put a table in it, how many kids had that unlimited opportunity to practice...not many I bet.
The more you read up on examples like this(child prodigies) the more you start to see there is something in this.
Read up on Mozart...it's fascinating

He started at 7 and he made a 100 break aged 10. Have you played snooker to understand how rare and difficult that is especially as a kid when you are short and playing on a full size snooker table? He would have to have played snooker for over 9 hours a day, every day of the year for 3 years to play for 10,000 hours, unlikely don't you think considering he was at school. There have been people who have played for decades without getting close to that. There are professional snooker players who have gone the entire career without making a maximum break. The point still stands, he is naturally gifted at the sport.

I don't know a huge amount about snooker but it seems unlikely to me that there are professionals that have never made a century break, can you provide any examples? Making a century does not make you elite, making a 147 does and he only did that at 15

I said there are professionals who have never made a maximum break (147), to do it aged 15 is outstanding. A century break (over 100) isn't rare for a professional but again to do it aged 10 is outstanding for someone that young. However there are people who have played snooker for many years as a hobby and never came close to making a century break.

[gp.]

To be honest I am not sure why anyone wastes their time playing snooker. You need to practice at it for hours to be the best. They should spend the same amount of time practicing football, they would inevitably become best in the world at that instead and the money is much better.

[samdance]

Bedwell Table Tennis club's fifth team, eh? Well, that seals it for me. Clearly you walk with the ping-pong gods.

Haha what a silly person you are, I hadn't played for 13 years and finished the season with only 2 defeats in the 2nd tier, a majority of these players were playing when I was a child and haven't stopped.

Bit "selective" with the facts there aren't you? According to you own link you had 3 wins and 3 defeats in the glorified heights of the Bedwell second team. Anyway, if your opponents have been practicing all that time surely they ought to be much better than you according to your theory?

No they continue to practice the same incorrect technique

[samdance]

He said he worked 13 hour days. Now he lays on the beach all day.

Did I? When? Could you please quote me saying that?

[ValMar]

Yoy have not solved the problem yet, unbelievable.