sugar ray robinson vs roberto duran

[ClivePatrickLyons]

The Duran of the 1st Leonard-Duran Fight beats the Robinson who was decked had a very difficult time with Tommy Bell when SRR won the 147 title.

Bell couldn't box well and was 39-10-2.. Robinson was floored hard and lost the first 5 rounds.. It was the 2nd fight in a row where Robinson was almost KO'd.

Another fight that's a valid comparison is when Welterweight Carmen Basilio -- who was Duran's size -- upset Middieweight Champ Sugar Ray Robinson. Basilio was not a skilled boxer or anything close to Duran's level, but he was a tough guy who had 12 losses when he upset Robinson.

Robinson had a difficult time with Kid Gavilan who was beaten by Lightweight Ike Williams and Doug Ratford, 27-18-6, the previous year and had other losses.

At no time in his career did Robinson ever beat boxers the caliber of Sugar Ray Leonard or Estaban De Jesus -- guys who Duran beat... And Robinson also never fought anyone the caliber of Marvin Hagler... Wilfred Benitez... or Tommy Hearns.. Robinson fought mostly unskilled opponents who he was very likely to beat.. But he didn't always beat them -- Ralph Jones came off 5 straight losses to completely dominate Robinson.

ALMOST KO'D YOUR GETTING effing WORST KALAN LETS BRING UP ALL THE FIGHTERS THAT HAVE HAD THE DISSTINCTION OF BEING NEARLY STOPPED/TKO'D/KO'D WHATS THAT GOT TO DO WITH THE PRICE OF poo HOUSE PAPER

You're dreaming again... Sugar Ray Robinson got floored hard by Tommy Bell and Artie Levine in consecutive fights... Those two guys weren't real good and lost a lot fights... That's material when you're being hyped as the ATG of all time... Nobody as bad as Bell or Levine ever decked Duran -- who put a Middleweight Champion like Iran Barkley clean on his ass.. Roberto is fine at 66.. No problems after winning World Titles in Many weight classes.

Have you heard of that guy what was his name mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Kirkland remember him wtf now you got me nearly bagging one of my all time favourites in Roberto geeze your a bad influence bad mouth LEGEND'S say they nearly got ko'd like I said whats nearly got to do with it fuc i'd be a LEGEND my self if I went by the nearly's in my life nearly don't count so find something else to hang your lame argument on..........

[Kalan]

ALMOST KO'D YOUR GETTING effing WORST KALAN LETS BRING UP ALL THE FIGHTERS THAT HAVE HAD THE DISSTINCTION OF BEING NEARLY STOPPED/TKO'D/KO'D WHATS THAT GOT TO DO WITH THE PRICE OF poo HOUSE PAPER

You're dreaming again... Sugar Ray Robinson got floored hard by Tommy Bell and Artie Levine in consecutive fights... Those two guys weren't real good and lost a lot fights... That's material when you're being hyped as the ATG of all time... Nobody as bad as Bell or Levine ever decked Duran -- who put a Middleweight Champion like Iran Barkley clean on his ass.. Roberto is fine at 66.. No problems after winning World Titles in Many weight classes.

Have you heard of that guy what was his name mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Kirkland remember him wtf now you got me nearly bagging one of my all time favourites in Roberto geeze your a bad influence bad mouth LEGEND'S say they nearly got ko'd like I said whats nearly got to do with it fuc i'd be a LEGEND my self if I went by the nearly's in my life nearly don't count so find something else to hang your lame argument on..........

I must have missed it. Did Kirkland Laing knock Duran down????? ... Plus Laing was a better and quicker boxer than some of the guys who beat Robinson.. This isn't about that.. This is about the Duran who beat Leonard versus the Robinson who beat Bell for the 147 title---both at their peak.. Leonard was undefeated and considered by many the best boxer in the world -- Bell was a cherry-picked 2nd rater with 10 losses -- who Robinson already beat in a previous fight... In Robinson's case a fight was setup where he had an overwhelming chance to win a vacant World Title.

[elmersalsa]

Sugar Ray never faced the two most complete boxers of his era: Charley Burley and Ezzard Charles.

[Kalan]

He cherry-picked his opponents all the way to Archer, who he knew was a light hitter. Far cry from Hopkins winning the Lineal LHW Title when he was 46. Duran fought to an older age than Robinson did as well ... as did Moore, Foreman, Holmes etc. They all came through it all right too, so far as damage.

[elmersalsa]

Great match up, but I don't think that the great Sugar Ray Robinson was the most complete fighter ever. In my view, I could name at least 12 boxers that were more complete than Robinson:

Roberto Duran
Sugar Ray Leonard
Salvador Sanchez
Ezzard Charles
Eusebio Pedroza
Marvelous Marvin Hagler
Eder Jofre
Joe Gans
Floyd Mayweather, Jr.
Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Ismael Laguna
Mike McCallum
Charley Burley

[ClivePatrickLyons]

You're dreaming again... Sugar Ray Robinson got floored hard by Tommy Bell and Artie Levine in consecutive fights... Those two guys weren't real good and lost a lot fights... That's material when you're being hyped as the ATG of all time... Nobody as bad as Bell or Levine ever decked Duran -- who put a Middleweight Champion like Iran Barkley clean on his ass.. Roberto is fine at 66.. No problems after winning World Titles in Many weight classes.

Have you heard of that guy what was his name mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Kirkland remember him wtf now you got me nearly bagging one of my all time favourites in Roberto geeze your a bad influence bad mouth LEGEND'S say they nearly got ko'd like I said whats nearly got to do with it fuc i'd be a LEGEND my self if I went by the nearly's in my life nearly don't count so find something else to hang your lame argument on..........

I must have missed it. Did Kirkland Laing knock Duran down????? ... Plus Laing was a better and quicker boxer than some of the guys who beat Robinson.. This isn't about that.. This is about the Duran who beat Leonard versus the Robinson who beat Bell for the 147 title---both at their peak.. Leonard was undefeated and considered by many the best boxer in the world -- Bell was a cherry-picked 2nd rater with 10 losses -- who Robinson already beat in a previous fight... In Robinson's case a fight was setup where he had an overwhelming chance to win a vacant World Title.

Bell on a higher level than Kirkland SO END OF YOUR DUMB VIEW

[Kalan]

Tommy Bell better than James Kirkland? ... HELL NO!! ... Bell better than Kirkland Laing? ... HELL NO!!

Tommy Bell managed to lose to Henry Jordan -- who had a KO ratio of 8% . Jordan lost most of his fights including 10 of his previous 13 fights prior to beating Bell... Everyone Laing lost to had a winning record.. The Gifted One---as they aptly called Kirkland Laing---never lost to anyone with a losing record.

[Seamus]

Tommy Bell faced very solid opposition, often on short notice, and gave a pretty good account of himself. Quite a few big name fighters from his era have some inexplicable losses on there resumes. It happens some times when you're not at your best and jump in the ring on 2 weeks notice after a tough bout.

[Ambling Alp II]

Wait a minute Seamus. You mean that we can't just go by win/loss records and KO%? What kind of crazy talk is that?
Why can't just use win/loss records when we compare two fighters from different eras who have no common opponents?

[Seamus]

Well it appears a few posters are using that criteria for rating fighters in this thread

[ClivePatrickLyons]

Great match up, but I don't think that the great Sugar Ray Robinson was the most complete fighter ever. In my view, I could name at least 12 boxers that were more complete than Robinson:

Roberto Duran
Sugar Ray Leonard
Salvador Sanchez
Ezzard Charles
Eusebio Pedroza
Marvelous Marvin Hagler
Eder Jofre
Joe Gans
Floyd Mayweather, Jr.
Ricardo "Finito" Lopez
Ismael Laguna
Mike McCallum
Charley Burley

16 just in case you find another 4

[ClivePatrickLyons]

Tommy Bell better than James Kirkland? ... HELL NO!! ... Bell better than Kirkland Laing? ... HELL NO!!

Tommy Bell managed to lose to Henry Jordan -- who had a KO ratio of 8% . Jordan lost most of his fights including 10 of his previous 13 fights prior to beating Bell... Everyone Laing lost to had a winning record.. The Gifted One---as they aptly called Kirkland Laing---never lost to anyone with a losing record.

Henry Jordan got to do with this

[APerno]

at welterweight,prime for prime,the flash robinson against the hungry and angry duran

Duran over Leonard first time out, Leonard in rematch
La Motta over Robinson first time out; Robinson in rematch
Fulmer over Robinson first time out; Robinson in rematch
Basilio over Robinson first time out; Robinson in rematch

History repeats itself . . .Leonard and Robinson had to figure out how to win; against Duran Robinson will have to figure out how to win.

Duran over Robinson SD (15), Robinson down once
Robinson in rematch UD (15)

[Ambling Alp II]

If Robinson fights smart he would simply outbox him. He would school him just like Leonard did the 2nd time and Benitez did. Duran was not complete enough of a fighter to handle that.

[BoxBuzz]

If Robinson fights smart he would simply outbox him. He would school him just like Leonard did the 2nd time and Benitez did. Duran was not complete enough of a fighter to handle that.

Interesting, and yet Carmen B was up to the task. I find this one of the more interesting hypotheticals.

[Ambling Alp II]

Robinson was well past it by the time he was fighting Basilio.

[Seamus]

Robinson beat LaMotta when he was Welterweight and Jake was a shade over 160. He also stopped Zivic the previous year. He's too strong and hit too hard for Duran at 147.

[elmersalsa]

Duran was more of a complete fighter than Robinson.

[BoxBuzz]

Was Robinson bigger than Hagler?

Size may not be the issue here......no argument that Robinson was not in his prime vs Carmen. But Duran wasn't in his prime vs Hagler.

It would likely be very competitive.

[Seamus]

I think it's important to keep the focus at how both men performed at 147, otherwise I can bring up Duran getting dropped twice by DeJesus at 135 while Robinson KO'd Fullmer with one punch at 160.

[Ambling Alp II]

Was Robinson bigger than Hagler?

Size may not be the issue here......no argument that Robinson was not in his prime vs Carmen. But Duran wasn't in his prime vs Hagler.

It would likely be very competitive.

Hagler was closer to his prime than Robinson was to his.

At 147, 154, or 160 Robinson would have won most of the time if they were close to the same age.

As Seamus alluded to, the original question was at 147. Robinson wins 4 of 5. Would have been the best fight of the weight classes. Big question would be what excuses would be made. Was Duran motivated? Did he only have 5 months to prepare? Tummyache?

[elmersalsa]

Was Robinson bigger than Hagler?

Size may not be the issue here......no argument that Robinson was not in his prime vs Carmen. But Duran wasn't in his prime vs Hagler.

It would likely be very competitive.

Hagler was closer to his prime than Robinson was to his.

At 147, 154, or 160 Robinson would have won most of the time if they were close to the same age.

As Seamus alluded to, the original question was at 147. Robinson wins 4 of 5. Would have been the best fight of the weight classes. Big question would be what excuses would be made. Was Duran motivated? Did he only have 5 months to prepare? Tummyache?

Well, Duran kicked Leonard's ass. Don't forget that. Sugar Ray NEVER BEAT HIM at his very best. Duran beat him at his very best and that's what it all matters.

Speaking of Robinson vs Duran, I don't buy that sentiment that he beat Roberto 4 out of 5. At his very best, Duran probably would have knocked him out. Robinson at least would have given Duran a better fight than Leonard did. He wouldn't be grabbing and clutching like Leonard. He would have been more open to the battle. He ain't outboxing Duran. I think that Robinson would have been PERFECT for The Hands of Stone. He would play into Duran's hands.

[elmersalsa]

Like I said before and for the final time:

154lbs and up, I pick Robinson
147lbs and down, it would be, in my estimation, the great Roberto Duran!

[Seamus]

Duran beat Leonard at his very best ??? Leonard went on to stop Tommy Hearns, who was alot more dominant at 147 than Duran. And as far as him kicking Leonard's ass, it was a very close decision, and a fight that the New York Times, Ferdie Pacheco and a few others thought Leonard had won. Robinson was physically stronger and a bigger puncher than Leonard at 147, not to mention being faster and having a longer reach than Duran.

[elmersalsa]

Duran beat Leonard at his very best ??? Leonard went on to stop Tommy Hearns, who was alot more dominant at 147 than Duran. And as far as him kicking Leonard's ass, it was a very close decision, and a fight that the New York Times, Ferdie Pacheco and a few others thought Leonard had won. Robinson was physically stronger and a bigger puncher than Leonard at 147, not to mention being faster and having a longer reach than Duran.

GFOH! DURAN KICKED HIS ASS! CLOSE FIGHT MY ASS!