Absurd (yet possible) Matchups

[BoxBuzz]

This could be entertaining......


1. Mid 1983 Ali has been retired for 18 months....and Mike Tyson is 18 months from his first Pro fight.

Who wins?


2. March of 1978 Carlos Monzon gives it one more defense........Marvin Hagler has come back and beaten Willie Monroe.....and instead of Kevin Finnegan....He's given a shot at Monzon's title.

Who wins?

Throw out an "Absurd yet possible" Match where it's actually a debate as to who wins.

[bwu]

1930: A slumping, inexperienced, grief-stricken Max Baer faces the beyond shot but always crafty Jack Johnson.

BTW: Tyson and Monzon.

[APerno]

Monzon before or after the wife thing? - Just kidding - Monzon in '77 went 30 rounds with a ATG (UD twice) - a '78 Monzon still beats a prime Hagler never mind the other guy.

The Ali one looks ugly; Tyson but I don't want to imagine it. Couldn't you have gone with a Manila Ali?

[BoxBuzz]

You do know we are talking about a Mike Tyson that would be 17 years old right?

[BoxBuzz]

1930: A slumping, inexperienced, grief-stricken Max Baer faces the beyond shot but always crafty Jack Johnson.

BTW: Tyson and Monzon.

By 1930 Jack was an entertainer only.....Max was a serious wanna be fighter. I'm going with youth and exuberance on that absurd pairing.

[APerno]

I go with Bear too - Why was Bear grief stricken in 1930? - What event? - Ernie Schaaf? - Schaaf didn't die until '33 - The second Bear-Schaaf fight was in '32, (Schaaf won the 1930 Bear-Schaaf encounter.)

Anyway, Bear in 1930 would have been inexperienced but lean and hungry not slumping. Bear would have overwhelmed Johnson; Bear would have forced Johnson to trade with him. Bear by KO in six.

Can't wrap my head around a 1983 Ali regardless of Tyson's age/experience - Ali shouldn't have fought Berbick; Holmes should have been enough (probably already too much) - by '83 there wasn't a State that would have given him a licence; he was already ill - you promote that fight you'll lose your promoter's licence, and people would picket outside your house with signs that say not nice things about you; I would be one of them.

I guess it just bothers me to think of Ali circa Holmes/Berbick.

[bwu]

Frankie Campbell died after his 1930 fight with Baer. Hence the grief and the slump. Schaaf's death was unfairly attributed to Baer, but there is no real evidence that Max's fight had anything to do with it.

Don't get me wrong, I would pick Baer too. But the match fits the checklist: absurd, yet possible.

As for Ali-Tyson in '83, yes, I pick the amateur. Ali had nothing left after Berbick.

[Controversial]

You do know we are talking about a Mike Tyson that would be 17 years old right?

Do you think Ali would've won then? Video of Ali in 1983 he was slurring real bad. Tyson too quick, too fit and too keen for a 41 year old ring rusty Ali.

[BitPlayer]

A real one that belongs here has to be Butterbean vs Larry Holmes.

[BitPlayer]

Jack Johnson had his first boxrec fight in 1897 for the Texas State Middleweight Title (aged 19), CBZ had some going back to 1894.

Jem Mace had his last fight on Boxrec in 1897 by which point he was 66, and kept doing exhibitions after that.

This would've made an over 60 Jem Mace Vs a Teenage Jack Johnson possible.

[paddy chavez]

roy jones vs tommy hearns early 90's

[Controversial]

How about Tyson Fury making his pro debut against Mike Tyson in 2008? At that time Mike would've been out the ring for over 2.5 years, coming off two stoppage losses and aged 42.

[BitPlayer]

A peak Manny Pacquiao vs a peak Floyd Mayweather, circa 2010. I mean, as IF

Or if John L Sullivan could have postponed his retirement by 3 or 4 years and fought a green Jim Jeffries.

They actually done a couple exhibitions.

[BoxBuzz]

A real one that belongs here has to be Butterbean vs Larry Holmes.

Who would have guessed that the bean could have decked Larry? That came out of nowhere.

[BoxBuzz]

How about Tyson Fury making his pro debut against Mike Tyson in 2008? At that time Mike would've been out the ring for over 2.5 years, coming off two stoppage losses and aged 42.

I'm guessing that Kalan would go with Fury based on height. I'm not sure he'd be wrong.

[BoxBuzz]

roy jones vs tommy hearns early 90's

This one may be worth some thought.....Hearns could still crack.

[gilgamesh]

Rocky Marciano making a comeback in 1960 to face Floyd Patterson. Who wins?

[gilgamesh]

This could be entertaining......


1. Mid 1983 Ali has been retired for 18 months....and Mike Tyson is 18 months from his first Pro fight.

Who wins?


2. March of 1978 Carlos Monzon gives it one more defense........Marvin Hagler has come back and beaten Willie Monroe.....and instead of Kevin Finnegan....He's given a shot at Monzon's title.

Who wins?

Throw out an "Absurd yet possible" Match where it's actually a debate as to who wins.

Hagler would've been a handful for Monzon in 1978, not sure he would've had the experience at that level yet to beat Monzon, but he would've given him a hard night. I mean he was only a few years away from the start of his title reign so surely he was already a pretty solid fighter in his own right by this time.

I'd have favor young Mike over old Ali in the scenario you presented. Ali was far beyond finished by the time he called it a career.

[Tony1244]

Rocky Marciano making a comeback in 1960 to face Floyd Patterson. Who wins?

I have no idea, but not because I haven't thought about it. I've thought about it lots. What do you think?

Also Liston vs Quarry in 1967?

Foreman vs Tyson in 1990.

I'd go with Quarry and Foreman.

Congrats Gilgamesh on mod.

[Ambling Alp II]

Fun thread, Buzz!

Tyson would in brutal fashion. Tyson would have hit at will. Tyson would have hit him at will. Prime for prime a totally different story.

Quarry-Liston is intriguing. The big question is, how much did Liston have left in 1967? He was just fighting club fighters at that stage and we don't really have a good barometer. In 1969 against Martin, he had something left but obviously not a lot. He probably would be somewhere between the Liston we saw lose to Ali in 1964 (which would have been enough to beat Quarry) and the faded fighter who lost to Martin.

How about George Chuvalo vs Trevor Berbik in 1978? Berbik actually succeeded Chuvalo as the Canadian champ when Chuvalo retired.
Another one would be Jake LaMotta vs Archie Moore at middleweight in 1942, 1943 or 1944.

[gilgamesh]

Rocky Marciano making a comeback in 1960 to face Floyd Patterson. Who wins?

I have no idea, but not because I haven't thought about it. I've thought about it lots. What do you think?

Also Liston vs Quarry in 1967?

Foreman vs Tyson in 1990.

I'd go with Quarry and Foreman.

Congrats Gilgamesh on mod.

No congrats necessary, it was unexpected how that came about, but I'm not gonna be doing anything that's not necessary with my Mod powers. Perhaps that's why I was granted them. A lot of people would become a Mod, and go nuts banning people willy nilly or finding other ways to flex their muscle. I'm not gonna do that. Like I said in the CS, if somebody gets the boot from me it'll be universally accepted that they had it coming. I've still yet to do anything save for unlock a few threads just to allow a few extra comments, and that was more just to test the waters a little.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

I think Patterson would've outboxed Marciano by that time. Marciano would've been 36 by this time,which was ancient for boxers back in those days, especially face first brawlers like Marciano. I figure Patterson would've either outboxed him to win a wide decision or stopped him on cuts late in the bout.

Foreman vs Tyson in 1990. Tyson would've won a decision, but he'd have been shook up by Foreman's power a few times I think, similar to Holyfield vs Foreman.

Liston vs Quarry in 1967? I'd have favored Quarry to take that one by decision. Liston was the more skilled boxer, and harder hitter, but by this time he was losing a lot of steam, I think he probably would've given Quarry problems early, possibly opening up some cuts, but if he didn't stop him early, and I don't think he would've outhustled him, and either TKO'd him late or taken a decision. I'd lean toward the latter.

[BoxBuzz]

I think the Foreman Tyson equation goes the other way.

Not because Tyson couldn't have beaten him...but because Tyson was already defeated by George in the psyche arena....where Tyson was most vulnerable.


In fact...it's WHY the match never happened.....Foreman campaigned for that fight for all he was worth.....and he stood up to Holfyield quite well and Holy was not the least bit psyched by Foreman (or anyone else for that matter). But with Tyson...it was all about how his mind worked......Tyson had no doubts about his ability to beat anyone....except that guy....lol.......and I think it would be his undoing.

Now....if they were both robots with independent people running them...like the show "Robot Wars". I'd give it to Tyson...

[Tony1244]

Rocky Marciano making a comeback in 1960 to face Floyd Patterson. Who wins?

I have no idea, but not because I haven't thought about it. I've thought about it lots. What do you think?

Also Liston vs Quarry in 1967?

Foreman vs Tyson in 1990.

I'd go with Quarry and Foreman.

Congrats Gilgamesh on mod.

No congrats necessary, it was unexpected how that came about, but I'm not gonna be doing anything that's not necessary with my Mod powers. Perhaps that's why I was granted them. A lot of people would become a Mod, and go nuts banning people willy nilly or finding other ways to flex their muscle. I'm not gonna do that. Like I said in the CS, if somebody gets the boot from me it'll be universally accepted that they had it coming. I've still yet to do anything save for unlock a few threads just to allow a few extra comments, and that was more just to test the waters a little.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

I think Patterson would've outboxed Marciano by that time. Marciano would've been 36 by this time,which was ancient for boxers back in those days, especially face first brawlers like Marciano. I figure Patterson would've either outboxed him to win a wide decision or stopped him on cuts late in the bout.

Foreman vs Tyson in 1990. Tyson would've won a decision, but he'd have been shook up by Foreman's power a few times I think, similar to Holyfield vs Foreman.

Liston vs Quarry in 1967? I'd have favored Quarry to take that one by decision. Liston was the more skilled boxer, and harder hitter, but by this time he was losing a lot of steam, I think he probably would've given Quarry problems early, possibly opening up some cuts, but if he didn't stop him early, and I don't think he would've outhustled him, and either TKO'd him late or taken a decision. I'd lean toward the latter.

Agree on Patterson and Quarry, but I think GF may have stopped Tyson, perhaps that's wishful thinking as I was a fan of GF for a long time. When I was a kid in the 1970s, Marciano was considered 1 of the all time great HWs and Patterson was considered one of the worst. Wow, how that fight would have shaken that up despite the fact Rocky was way passed his prime to say the least.

Yup, I would think a good mod is like a good referee; less activity is often better. A lot of people think people should be barred for "stupid" or ridiculous opinions. I don't agree. If someone says Patterson would have beaten Wlad or Wilt would have beaten Ali, let them have had it IMO. People should be free to call an opinion Dumb. But when people threaten others or wish harm on others, they're just letting others know how mentally unbalanced they are and we have 1 or 2 of those.

[gilgamesh]

I have no idea, but not because I haven't thought about it. I've thought about it lots. What do you think?

Also Liston vs Quarry in 1967?

Foreman vs Tyson in 1990.

I'd go with Quarry and Foreman.

Congrats Gilgamesh on mod.

No congrats necessary, it was unexpected how that came about, but I'm not gonna be doing anything that's not necessary with my Mod powers. Perhaps that's why I was granted them. A lot of people would become a Mod, and go nuts banning people willy nilly or finding other ways to flex their muscle. I'm not gonna do that. Like I said in the CS, if somebody gets the boot from me it'll be universally accepted that they had it coming. I've still yet to do anything save for unlock a few threads just to allow a few extra comments, and that was more just to test the waters a little.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand.

I think Patterson would've outboxed Marciano by that time. Marciano would've been 36 by this time,which was ancient for boxers back in those days, especially face first brawlers like Marciano. I figure Patterson would've either outboxed him to win a wide decision or stopped him on cuts late in the bout.

Foreman vs Tyson in 1990. Tyson would've won a decision, but he'd have been shook up by Foreman's power a few times I think, similar to Holyfield vs Foreman.

Liston vs Quarry in 1967? I'd have favored Quarry to take that one by decision. Liston was the more skilled boxer, and harder hitter, but by this time he was losing a lot of steam, I think he probably would've given Quarry problems early, possibly opening up some cuts, but if he didn't stop him early, and I don't think he would've outhustled him, and either TKO'd him late or taken a decision. I'd lean toward the latter.

Agree on Patterson and Quarry, but I think GF may have stopped Tyson, perhaps that's wishful thinking as I was a fan of GF for a long time. When I was a kid in the 1970s, Marciano was considered 1 of the all time great HWs and Patterson was considered one of the worst. Wow, how that fight would have shaken that up despite the fact Rocky was way passed his prime to say the least.

Yup, I would think a good mod is like a good referee; less activity is often better. A lot of people think people should be barred for "stupid" or ridiculous opinions. I don't agree. If someone says Patterson would have beaten Wlad or Wilt would have beaten Ali, let them have had it IMO. People should be free to call an opinion Dumb. But when people threaten others or wish harm on others, they're just letting others know how mentally unbalanced they are and we have 1 or 2 of those.

I'd probably tell guys to tone it down, if it came down to 2 dudes literally talking about beating each other up. That's just stupid, and there's no reason why any discussion on a forum should ever come to that. If somebody is pissing you off that bad, just log off or ignore the guy, and if there's a guy that keeps going around saying "I'd kick your ass" I'm sure he'd be shown the exit door before long because nobody likes dudes like that, and nobody would miss 'em.

[sweetviolenturge]

I've always been mildly surprised that that early in Tyson's career he never faced any of the trio of Leon Spinks, Jimmy Young or "Tex" Cobb. Of course by the time that he would have met them all three were long in the tooth & well past it, but they'd have been name opponents among his victims during his barnstorming days through upstate NY & AC.