McKinley rates Vitali as all time great and smartest since Ali

Post Reply
montrealsuper
Cruiserweight
Posts: 1056
Joined: 18 Nov 2010, 12:44

McKinley rates Vitali as all time great and smartest since Ali

Post by montrealsuper »

Mike Tyson's old trainer Stacy McKinley rates Vitali Klitschko as an all time great, the best thinker, smartest heavyweight since Ali...
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Stacy McKinley Calls Vitali an All Time Great

From Scoop Malinowski’s Archives 2009…

Stacy McKinley served ten years as part of the training team with Mike Tyson. He also worked with Ricardo Mayorga, among others world champs. McKinley is very impressed by what he sees in the ring work of Vitali Klitschko.

“Vitali Klitschko is probably the best thinking fighter heavyweight since Muhammad Ali. He’s a very smart, intelligent fighter. Very smart,” said McKinley last week in an interview we did in New York City. “He can box, he can throw punches from all angles. He can move. He can take a punch. He’s tall. He’s busy. He’s very hard to hit. Good thinker. Oh, he’s a helluva thinker.”

McKinley got a close up view of the WBC Heavyweight champion in Berlin last year while working with Samuel Peter. “That’s what I said when I fought him with Samuel Peters. I said, Don’t try to think with this guy. Don’t try to out-box or out-think this guy. Get in there and fight this guy. But he want to sit back and try to out-think him. You can’t do it. And I told him, He’s probably the smartest heavyweight I’ve seen in the ring since Muhammad Ali. And I’ve seen a lot of good fighters. Larry Holmes and all them were good fighters but they weren’t good thinkers. This guy Vitali is a great thinker. It seems like he knows what you’re gonna do before you start to do it. So he’s very, very, very cagey. I don’t think nobody can beat him.”

When I ask which fight or fights of Vitali were most impressive which convinced him to become a believer, he replies, “Well, the Lennox Lewis fight. The left-hander he fought that beat his brother (Corrie Sanders). All these guys he fought. He’s just so smart. He moves good. A real intelligent fighter.”

Then I suggest something many pundits have not yet begun to accept or contemplate. Is Vitali one of the heavyweight greats of all time? McKinley does not disagree. “One of the greats and that’s what I said. I told him. I haven’t seen one that smart since Muhammad Ali. I told him after the fight with Peters, post press conference. Smartest I’ve seen as far as thinking. Most of the guys can’t think that well. He’s just great, man, a great thinker. Since Muhammad Ali. He’s that smart.”

Does Cristobal Arreola have any chance to beat Vitali? “No,” replies McKinley without a hint of doubt. “Three or four rounds he might get knocked out. He can’t beat that kid. Standing up too straight, he ain’t got the chin or the skills. This guy, like I tell you, he knows what he’s doing. And I was talking to his brother Wladimir, he was down in Miami. I said, Have you and your brother ever sparred together?

“Wladimir said, No, we’re too competitive. I said, Let me tell you something. That’s a smart boy. He said, Yeah, he’s very hard to fight. I said, You don’t have to tell me. He’s very hard. He’s the best heavyweight out there. I don’t think anybody can beat him.”

Does McKinley believe Vitali is the superior heavyweight fighter to Wladimir? “Oh yeah. He’d knock Wladimir out. Wladimir’s got good, basic fundamentals but he couldn’t do nothing with that kid. Kid’s too good, man. And I knew we were gonna have a hard fight with Samuel Peters. I said, Go in and put pressure on, cut the ring off and fight him. Don’t think with him. Don’t try to out-box him. Because you can’t out-think him. You’ve got to fight him. But he tried to think and you saw what happened. It was no contest. He quit.”

Published by Scoop Malinowski on September 2nd, 2009

Artwork by John Murawski
elmersalsa
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 15708
Joined: 02 Feb 2003, 03:50

Re: McKinley rates Vitali as all time great and smartest since Ali

Post by elmersalsa »

The great Larry Holmes was a great fighter, but not a good thinker? LOL!

I stopped reading it after that phrase. That guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
gilgamesh
Cruiserweight
Posts: 46556
Joined: 02 Sep 2010, 16:21

Re: McKinley rates Vitali as all time great and smartest since Ali

Post by gilgamesh »

elmersalsa wrote:The great Larry Holmes was a great fighter, but not a good thinker? LOL!

I stopped reading it after that phrase. That guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
I stopped reading after seeing that it was a post by MontrealSuper. I've yet to see anything worthwhile posted by that guy.
BitPlayer
Welterweight
Posts: 3527
Joined: 29 Feb 2016, 05:14

Re: McKinley rates Vitali as all time great and smartest since Ali

Post by BitPlayer »

Cut and paste from the same shitty site he kept spamming.

He spammed it so much it's name now get autocensored as spam
BitPlayer
Welterweight
Posts: 3527
Joined: 29 Feb 2016, 05:14

Re: McKinley rates Vitali as all time great and smartest since Ali

Post by BitPlayer »

golden oldie wrote:So can we just get this straight? The guy pulled out of one fight due to a shoulder injury, he got stopped on a bad cut by one of the best Heavyweights who ever climbed in a ring. So that makes him a bum, and Tyson's former trainer an idiot? Oh the irony. If Klitchko had the misfortune to have been born American, Boxrec posters would be screaming he was better than Marciano, Dempsey, Baer, Tunney, and Willard, et al. :doh:
He lost to a fat past it Lennox Lewis, and never beat a single great,

Larry Holmes
Evander Holyfield
Lennox Lewis
probably even Wladimir Klitschko

all have much stronger claims to greatness career wise.
Ambling Alp II
Super Middleweight
Posts: 15181
Joined: 04 Nov 2012, 18:31

Re: McKinley rates Vitali as all time great and smartest since Ali

Post by Ambling Alp II »

Agreed. Nobody said he was a bum and this had nothing to do with where he is from. He simply didn't do anything near what Holyfield, Holmes Lewis, and some fighter's did.
Ambling Alp II
Super Middleweight
Posts: 15181
Joined: 04 Nov 2012, 18:31

Re: McKinley rates Vitali as all time great and smartest since Ali

Post by Ambling Alp II »

It's zero to do with where he is from. Most American posters here don't really care where a guy is from.
Lennox Lewis is not from the United States. Most people give him a lot of respect. Why? Because he was great.
Same for other non-Americans- Monzon, Grffith, Tiger, Pac, Duran, Arguello etc. Could name many more non-Americans think were great.

We also have no problem ripping an American fighter for that matter.

Nobody was saying Klitschko was ducking everyone. His era was weak, which isn't his fault. What is his fault is that he simply failed big time in both relevant fights he had. Against Lewis at Lewis' worst, he lasted 6 rounds. Couldn't go the distance against Byrd.
Not interested in the crybaby excuses. Don't care if the judges had ahead on the scorecards at the time he lost. A great fighter gets it done in those fights. He couldn't because he wasn't great.
Ambling Alp II
Super Middleweight
Posts: 15181
Joined: 04 Nov 2012, 18:31

Re: McKinley rates Vitali as all time great and smartest since Ali

Post by Ambling Alp II »

yes Lewis was a great fighter. He was at his absolute worst when he fought Klitschko. A great fighter beats Lewis in that situation. Klitschko could not get it done. If he was a hard puncher he would have got Lewis out of there. If he had any speed he could have outpointed him. If he had any defense his face would not have looked like that. The referee stopped it justifiably. Klitschko only has himself to blame for losing. A prime Holyfield, Tyson, Holmes, Louis, Ali, or some other great heavyweight would have easily beaten that version of Lewis. Klitschko couldn't because he was nowhere near being a great fighter.

As for Byrd, a great fighter would not have quit like that. Do you really believe Ali or Louis, or Lennox Lewis would have quit with just three rounds to go? Hell no. He didn't even have to throw a punch with that hand. Just stand there against a pillow puncher. A great fighter toughs it out in that situation. Besides that, he looked like crap for the 9 rounds that he did fight.

I am 49; not sure if that makes me very young. Of course most Americans think that most of the best heavyweights over the past 100 years were Americans. They were. Lennox Lewis was great. Max Schmeling was great. Almost any intelligent American boxing fan with historical knowledge acknowledges that. Outside of them and Bob Fitzsimmons, there simply is none to make a credible argument for. Makes no sense to say that Americans aren't biased against non-Americans at lower weights but are at heavyweights.
gregor
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 422
Joined: 27 Feb 2002, 20:00

Re: McKinley rates Vitali as all time great and smartest since Ali

Post by gregor »

The fight with Sanders is very poor example if McKinley wants to call him smart.

Like his brother, he had no clear idea how to fight fast southpaw who was smaller but not dwarfed by him.
But unlike his brother, his chin was good enough to take some good shots Sanders landed in the 1st round and still ocasionally in 2nd. Then Sanders (who got 10 pounds between Wlad and Vitali) just slowed down and despite best efforts could not keep up with this pace.

Do not get me wrong - good fight to watch overall, decent win for Vitali, and so on... but I can't find much smartness on his side. His gameplan was IMHO the same most of the time - to capitalize on being bigger than his opponents (like Wlad, though executed differently).
Bodyshot3
Middleweight
Posts: 9791
Joined: 31 Dec 2013, 15:19

Re: McKinley rates Vitali as all time great and smartest since Ali

Post by Bodyshot3 »

The fight with Sanders is very poor example if McKinley wants to call him smart.

Like his brother, he had no clear idea how to fight fast southpaw who was smaller but not dwarfed by him.
But unlike his brother, his chin was good enough to take some good shots Sanders landed in the 1st round and still ocasionally in 2nd. Then Sanders (who got 10 pounds between Wlad and Vitali) just slowed down and despite best efforts could not keep up with this pace.

Do not get me wrong - good fight to watch overall, decent win for Vitali, and so on... but I can't find much smartness on his side. His gameplan was IMHO the same most of the time - to capitalize on being bigger than his opponents (like Wlad, though executed differently).
Agreed Gregor, not the right fight to pick when making the case for Vitali; Sanders was a little past his sell by date then and to a certain extent even a prime Corrie did not have much of back-up plan after he'd played his usual/preferred gambit of starting fast, hard and letting those admittedly big bombs go. Factor in the (somwewhat annoying) fact that Sanders was not a guy who exactly lived and breathed the boxing life and the result looks decent but not exactly stellar.
Ambling Alp II
Super Middleweight
Posts: 15181
Joined: 04 Nov 2012, 18:31

Re: McKinley rates Vitali as all time great and smartest since Ali

Post by Ambling Alp II »

Lewis gets some criticism, but he is pretty well respected. He doesn't get more criticism than Mike Tyson or George Foreman for example.
The Klitschkos get ripped sometimes because they deserve to be. They are good fighters who some people think are great. They clearly were not.
Vitaly's biggest win is against who? Corrie Sanders? And he we the crybaby excuses all the time for not being able to beat a past it Lewis and Byrd.
Wladimir at least beat Byrd, but there isn't much else. And of course he of course had his letdowns. They would get ripped if they were Americans.
American fans are not about ripping an American fighter.
gregor
Heavyweight
Heavyweight
Posts: 422
Joined: 27 Feb 2002, 20:00

Re: McKinley rates Vitali as all time great and smartest since Ali

Post by gregor »

The issue I have with rating Vitaly anywhere close to ATG are his achievements.

And I mean real achievements, not debates about hypothetical matchups with Foreman, Ali, etc. and arguing how his style would make him difficult match for most of other ATG. Well, maybe... but in reality his best opponents were Lewis and Byrd (both loses), meaning his best win has to be someone like Sanders/Chisora...
Post Reply