BitPlayer wrote:
People have natural ability. But it can be developed to a significant degree, even if it's hard to do. Hearns is a rather poor example, as it was with good training from Manny Steward that he developed a fearsome punch.
Ok, if Hearns was a poor example, why didn't Manny Steward use good training and develop and fearsome punch in his next student?
There's limits to people's abilities, that doesn't mean they can't be significantly trained. Looking through the guys he trained, I don't see anyone I'd consider feather fisted
I understand that. But you can't train a cat to be a dog can you?
I did admit in my original post that you can aid punching with technique and chin through rolling with shots but nature sets the bar on these, they can't be changed through extensive training.
You can only unlock the potential your genetics determine you have.
Amir Khan will always have a glass chin, just like Carl Froch will always have a granite one. No amount of training can change this fact
Kilsby wrote:And Whyte was all over the place against Chisora so I wouldn't even say he had a good chin never mind an example of a great chin.
Chisora isn't even a noted puncher.
He's all over the place to absorb the power. Chisora does have the sharpest punch, but he does often really knock opponents about too.
No, he's all over the place not to absorb the power, but because he CAN'T absorb the power.
His brain was rocked, and his legs turned to jelly with the force of the blow he absorbed
Any punch of note to certain areas on the head will scramble the brain.
Hit someones ears hard enough you can put them off balance, same goes for temple area & equally on the chin (is there a nerve there or something but it can certainly scramble a brain)
You can work on being able to roll with the blows, increase the neck muscles so you can take a harder blow but ultimately get hit in the right spot and nothing will stop the wobble.
BitPlayer wrote:
He's all over the place to absorb the power. Chisora does have the sharpest punch, but he does often really knock opponents about too.
No, he's all over the place not to absorb the power, but because he CAN'T absorb the power.
His brain was rocked, and his legs turned to jelly with the force of the blow he absorbed
Any punch of note to certain areas on the head will scramble the brain.
Hit someones ears hard enough you can put them off balance, same goes for temple area & equally on the chin (is there a nerve there or something but it can certainly scramble a brain)
You can work on being able to roll with the blows, increase the neck muscles so you can take a harder blow but ultimately get hit in the right spot and nothing will stop the wobble.
I'm sure the science behind this is technically sound but why do some people have more "right spots" than others?
Are people like Khan, Bruno & Graham just unlucky and people like Hagler, Froch, Hopkins, Eubank and Ali just pure lucky?
Boxerbeetle wrote:I have a 3 year old son, and it is very much my intention that he will grow up to be undisputed heavyweight champion of the world. I will train him mercilessly until he succeeds.
So I certainly hope it's possible.
What makes you think he will be HW?
Wish you all the best with the project of course.
I'm sure he has planned ahead and stocked up on HGH
Motor skills are best-trained from a very young age, but most kids burn out after a few years when they're forced by pushy parents. If I had kids, I'd encourage them to try out loads of things that improved their motor skills (as most kids do anyway), but never beyond a fairly basic level unless they were keen. Because the one thing that most top boxers have in common is a perceived lack of agency prior to their careers, and I'd hope that any kids of mine would have access to equally rewarding, self-determining careers without the danger.
Since hunger's the main driver for high-level success, would any of us wish that kind of emotional deprivation on our loved ones? The halls-and-hotels circuit isn't even good money, so no-one's doing it without some form of identity issue. Eubank Jr presumably felt in his dad's shadow; Froch was never cut out for life as a suit-and-tie office underling; Pacquiao was dirt poor...
Some fairly wealthy people have taken up boxing, but never a thoroughly happy person.
BitPlayer wrote:Chin and power can be trained. Not that there's no natural ability. For chin you can strengthen your neck and get better at moving with punches to lower the impact (Whyte does this a lot, which is why he is so hard to KO). Improving your fitness will also help. For power there's perfecting your punching technique, especially using your full body rather than arm punching, as well as exercises to get better at explosive movements such as throws.
I don't agree with the above. I agree technique can be improved to generate extra power for a particular person. But if you can't punch, you can't punch. Otherwise a boxer with a great workrate (Paulie Malignaggi 147lb) could do some additional power training and hit like Thomas Hearns at 147lb - its a ridiculous concept isn't it?
People have natural ability. But it can be developed to a significant degree, even if it's hard to do. Hearns is a rather poor example, as it was with good training from Manny Steward that he developed a fearsome punch.
Hearns was supposedly a soft puncher in the ams. Paulie has very brittle hands, so he has never trained for power.
Kilsby wrote:
No, he's all over the place not to absorb the power, but because he CAN'T absorb the power.
His brain was rocked, and his legs turned to jelly with the force of the blow he absorbed
Any punch of note to certain areas on the head will scramble the brain.
Hit someones ears hard enough you can put them off balance, same goes for temple area & equally on the chin (is there a nerve there or something but it can certainly scramble a brain)
You can work on being able to roll with the blows, increase the neck muscles so you can take a harder blow but ultimately get hit in the right spot and nothing will stop the wobble.
I'm sure the science behind this is technically sound but why do some people have more "right spots" than others?
Are people like Khan, Bruno & Graham just unlucky and people like Hagler, Froch, Hopkins, Eubank and Ali just pure lucky?
The science is technically very unsound. There is no nerve, it's the head turning rapidly shaking the brain that causes the KO. This isn't new information.
Kilsby wrote:
I don't agree with the above. I agree technique can be improved to generate extra power for a particular person. But if you can't punch, you can't punch. Otherwise a boxer with a great workrate (Paulie Malignaggi 147lb) could do some additional power training and hit like Thomas Hearns at 147lb - its a ridiculous concept isn't it?
People have natural ability. But it can be developed to a significant degree, even if it's hard to do. Hearns is a rather poor example, as it was with good training from Manny Steward that he developed a fearsome punch.
Hearns was supposedly a soft puncher in the ams. Paulie has very brittle hands, so he has never trained for power.
Does anyone know why boxers who break their hands never do knuckle hardening?
Does it take too long to make progress, or is there too much risk of permanant damage?
BitPlayer wrote:
People have natural ability. But it can be developed to a significant degree, even if it's hard to do. Hearns is a rather poor example, as it was with good training from Manny Steward that he developed a fearsome punch.
Hearns was supposedly a soft puncher in the ams. Paulie has very brittle hands, so he has never trained for power.
Does anyone know why boxers who break their hands never do knuckle hardening?
Does it take too long to make progress, or is there too much risk of permanant damage?
Once the damage is done that's it. How do you do 'knuckle hardening'? Like the monks who punch sandbags? I ask because I do this, a lot, and it still hurts when I land on the top of the head etc with bare fists.
A guy I know trained his kid to be a footballer from the moment he could sit up. Had a whole regime worked out. The lad is now 17-18 and with Stoke City.
Hearns was supposedly a soft puncher in the ams. Paulie has very brittle hands, so he has never trained for power.
Does anyone know why boxers who break their hands never do knuckle hardening?
Does it take too long to make progress, or is there too much risk of permanant damage?
Once the damage is done that's it. How do you do 'knuckle hardening'? Like the monks who punch sandbags? I ask because I do this, a lot, and it still hurts when I land on the top of the head etc with bare fists.
Bone is unlike other tissues, little fractures heal back stronger, so if you keep getting little fractures you can massively increase the bone density. I don't think it'll stop it hurting, but it'll stop damage to the bone.
I guess it may be issues with the soft tissue preventing them doing it.
To succeed in boxing you need to have be self motivated and driven. You can't do it for anyone else. It takes too much mental resolve to fight back when you're under the cosh and to never give up.
The training is too physically demanding and intense to be doing it under pressure or for someone else.
There is just too much time when boxing I ant fun that you need some inner motivation and inspiration to keep yourself going.
So it is about lighting the spark of that inner drive and self motivation- but how do you do that? How do you put that in someone?
If someone has that drive and is coached properly then they can do ok. But to be really good you need the physical natural abilities as well.
In my experience the naturally gifted boxers are generally lazy and unmotivated and the motivated hard workers lack the inherent, natural skills. When the 2 come together than you get someone that succeeds.
No, certain sports boxing included require more than just skill and fitness, courage being one of the things you need and you can't train that, you either have it or you don't.
