SaadOffTheDeck wrote:God, GGG is one of my favorite fighters and these nuthugger threads of preemptive excuses could almost make me cheer for Opie. Give it a rest, it's his biggest fight against arguably his best opponent, if he smashes him he'll get massive credit and a huge boost historically.
Come on, Saad. You are being naive again. GGG hasn't gotten anything easy and people have criticized every single "big" win he's had with a "but" or "if" and you think that this fight will be different fighting everybody's sweetheart, Canelo? I think that in the future and historically, he'll get a lot of credit for the win. But in near future, the critics will still come after GGG for something and keep him from getting full credit.
I will say this...GGG should get way more credit for a win over Canelo than Floyd did. Canelo was a child when Floyd cherry picked him.
Enlightened-One wrote:
I'm not sure if you are aware of Canelo's accomplishments and resume at the time he fought Floyd.
.
He had one good win over Trout which was a close but clear win.
Canelo was unbeaten (with a 42-0-1 record), a world champion for almost three years, had been competing in the pro ranks for eight years and was engaging in his eighth world title fight when he fought Mayweather. Having previously defeated several world champions (i.e. Miguel Vazquez (twice), Carlos Manuel Baldomir, Lovemore N'dou, Kermit Cintron, Shane Mosley & Austin Trout)
Yeah, and Provo stopped Jose Louis Castillo. He must be better than Mayweather.
apollo creed wrote:
He had one good win over Trout which was a close but clear win.
Canelo was unbeaten (with a 42-0-1 record), a world champion for almost three years, had been competing in the pro ranks for eight years and was engaging in his eighth world title fight when he fought Mayweather. Having previously defeated several world champions (i.e. Miguel Vazquez (twice), Carlos Manuel Baldomir, Lovemore N'dou, Kermit Cintron, Shane Mosley & Austin Trout)
Yeah, and Provo stopped Jose Louis Castillo. He must be better than Mayweather.
apollo creed wrote:
He had one good win over Trout which was a close but clear win.
Canelo was unbeaten (with a 42-0-1 record), a world champion for almost three years, had been competing in the pro ranks for eight years and was engaging in his eighth world title fight when he fought Mayweather. Having previously defeated several world champions (i.e. Miguel Vazquez (twice), Carlos Manuel Baldomir, Lovemore N'dou, Kermit Cintron, Shane Mosley & Austin Trout)
Yeah, and Provo stopped Jose Louis Castillo. He must be better than Mayweather.
EO is tripping. LOL Also Mundine TKO 7 Mosley which means Mundine >>>> Canelo !
Enlightened-One wrote:
Canelo was unbeaten (with a 42-0-1 record), a world champion for almost three years, had been competing in the pro ranks for eight years and was engaging in his eighth world title fight when he fought Mayweather. Having previously defeated several world champions (i.e. Miguel Vazquez (twice), Carlos Manuel Baldomir, Lovemore N'dou, Kermit Cintron, Shane Mosley & Austin Trout)
Yeah, and Provo stopped Jose Louis Castillo. He must be better than Mayweather.
EO is tripping. LOL Also Mundine TKO 7 Mosley which means Mundine >>>> Canelo !
I listed facts and nothing else.
You're pretending that I'm suggesting something that has not been conveyed by the written word.
Simply put: you're lying!
Read and comprehend the literal meaning of my post and then try to prove that the facts I've listed are untrue.
If you can't, then please refrain from making bûllshît claims.
Enlightened-One wrote:Sadly, it'll be GGG's best win by a proverbial country mile.
I use the word "sadly", because I feel that had Golovkin been with a better promoter than Universum and K2, such as GBP, Top Rank, one of Haymon's guys or even Matchroom, then Gennady would have almost certainly faced better opposition and may have already been regarded as the "biggest" name in the business.
Think about it... he arrived on the world scene in 2008 and was a dead-cert top-five 160lb-er back then.
To be honest, it's pretty bad career management for someone of GGG's talent to only be facing his first genuine top-ten pound-for-pound rated opponent at the very end of his career.
Gaymon has been destroying dudes in PBC's careers by putting them on the shelf. GGG's career has been handled a lot better than most dudes on the PBC roster. It's also a lot better than BrokeNation.
Most boxing fans will judge what they see. It will be obvious to most if Canelo is a "blown up JMW" or if GGG is over the hill
Take the Klitschko vs Joshua fight recently. People asked similar questions before it.
"Is Wlad past it? Will AJ get credit if he beats him or will this just go down as a win over a past his peak old timer?"
Well the only way to find out was to wait and see the fight and judge for ourselves. Both fighters came away with credit from a great and exciting performance.
Wlad showed in defeat that he still had some left in the tank and AJ answered a lot of questions and came away with huge credit for a top class win.
If the GGG vs Canelo goes a similar route, the fighters will get credit, fight fans will recognize good fighters in a good fight
If GGG steamrollers him, he'll get kudos on an impressive win but questions will be asked if Canelo was ever the real deal, was he a full MW, was he avoiding him all these years and fighting lesser opponents etc
The same will be said of GGG if it goes the other way. Is he over the hill, did his power flatter him against fighters who were not at the elite level
caldo2025 wrote:GGG should get way more credit for a win over Canelo than Floyd did. Canelo was a child when Floyd cherry picked him.
I'm not sure if you are aware of Canelo's accomplishments and resume at the time he fought Floyd.
.
He had one good win over Trout which was a close but clear win.
I had Trout winning that fight even with the knockdown. It was Canelo's first pencil whipping by the judges IMO but the knockdown skews everyone's memory of that fight. If you watch it again and score each round out, you'd see what i mean.
But knowledgable fans like you and I, Apollo, realize how Canelo's record was all fluffed up early on and that Floyd wanted to get Canelo while he was young and unseasoned. He was only 23 and they made him kill himself to make 152. So Floyd defeated a green, sucked out Canelo before his career really got going. Canelo right now is twice the fighter he was when Floyd fought him.
Dopes that do not realize simple things like this do not deserve to join discussions.
caldo2025 wrote:people have criticized every single "big" win he's had with a "but" or "if"
He's had a big win? Who did he beat? Was it Martinez, Lara, Froch, Alvarez? I can't remember Golovkin getting a big win, let alone a bunch of them, like you're suggesting.
Alvarez is top 5 p4p. Up until now, Golovkin has like 1 win against a top 75 p4p opponent, and he only won that fight by a hair. To suggest that he's got a bunch of big wins is pure fiction.
168-5
That's the combined records of GGG's last 6 opponents going back to 2015. GGG's resume is better than Canelo's IMO but at the very least, an idiot would be able to notice easily that it's comparable to Canelo's. So i'm not sure i'd like to get in this discussion with you if you can't notice a simple thing like that.
You are just one of those GGG haters and that's cool. Canelo will probably get the crooked decision next month so you'll be all psyched so enjoy it. But no sense arguing facts with someone that makes up his own so i'll bow out of this one.
The truth is that Canelo is probably the same size if not bigger than GGG on fight night even when he fights at 155.
So it's a stupid argument if that's the one that's used.
caldo2025 wrote:people have criticized every single "big" win he's had with a "but" or "if"
He's had a big win? Who did he beat? Was it Martinez, Lara, Froch, Alvarez? I can't remember Golovkin getting a big win, let alone a bunch of them, like you're suggesting.
Alvarez is top 5 p4p. Up until now, Golovkin has like 1 win against a top 75 p4p opponent, and he only won that fight by a hair. To suggest that he's got a bunch of big wins is pure fiction.
168-5
That's the combined records of GGG's last 6 opponents going back to 2015. GGG's resume is better than Canelo's IMO but at the very least, an idiot would be able to notice easily that it's comparable to Canelo's. So i'm not sure i'd like to get in this discussion with you if you can't notice a simple thing like that.
You are just one of those GGG haters and that's cool. Canelo will probably get the crooked decision next month so you'll be all psyched so enjoy it. But no sense arguing facts with someone that makes up his own so i'll bow out of this one.
0
That's how many of Golovkin's opponents had a 400+ rating on boxrec at the time of the fight.
I don't know why you're going by W-L records. There's a 23-0-1 middleweight who is ranked #58. There's a 31-2-1 middleweight who is ranked #74. Another one who is 26-1 and ranked #122. I'm sure you would be very impressed if Golovkin beat these guys, because you don't seem to know how meaningless W-L records are without the context of the quality of their opposition. Seriously, you could have a guy like JD Chapman who built-up a 29-0 record fighting bums in Oklahoma. David Rodriguez started out his career 36-0 against all bums. Donnell Holmes started out 31-0-2 against all bums. W-L records mean absolutely nothing.
If a raw counting of wins and losses determines how good a fighter is, then 9-1 Vasyl Lomachenko would be worse than #331-ranked Roxberg Patrick Riley, who is 11-0. More raw wins than Vasyl, fewer raw defeats, and absolutely no context.
Last edited by Lackeos on 20 Aug 2017, 13:45, edited 1 time in total.
Enlightened-One wrote:
I'm not sure if you are aware of Canelo's accomplishments and resume at the time he fought Floyd.
.
He had one good win over Trout which was a close but clear win.
I had Trout winning that fight even with the knockdown. It was Canelo's first pencil whipping by the judges IMO but the knockdown skews everyone's memory of that fight. If you watch it again and score each round out, you'd see what i mean.
But knowledgable fans like you and I, Apollo, realize how Canelo's record was all fluffed up early on and that Floyd wanted to get Canelo while he was young and unseasoned. He was only 23 and they made him kill himself to make 152. So Floyd defeated a green, sucked out Canelo before his career really got going. Canelo right now is twice the fighter he was when Floyd fought him.
Dopes that do not realize simple things like this do not deserve to join discussions.
Do you honestly think the fight would have went differently if the fight was 2lbs higher? There was a huge difference in skill. Floyd didn't run. Did you see the fight? Canelo should be glad Floyd didn't hold him to Canelo's offer of dropping to 150 like he did a year before the fight. So many thought Canelo would beat Floyd, but in the end the green and weight drained excuses come out.
Enlightened-One wrote:
I'm not sure if you are aware of Canelo's accomplishments and resume at the time he fought Floyd.
.
He had one good win over Trout which was a close but clear win.
I had Trout winning that fight even with the knockdown. It was Canelo's first pencil whipping by the judges IMO but the knockdown skews everyone's memory of that fight. If you watch it again and score each round out, you'd see what i mean.
But knowledgable fans like you and I, Apollo, realize how Canelo's record was all fluffed up early on and that Floyd wanted to get Canelo while he was young and unseasoned. He was only 23 and they made him kill himself to make 152. So Floyd defeated a green, sucked out Canelo before his career really got going. Canelo right now is twice the fighter he was when Floyd fought him.
Dopes that do not realize simple things like this do not deserve to join discussions.
Yeah, at that time Canelo was green but even if you put this version of Canelo against that version of Floyd, it still wouldn't make such a big difference. Canelo is tailor made for a guy like Floyd no matter if they would fight at 152, 154, 155 or 160 lbs.
apollo creed wrote:
He had one good win over Trout which was a close but clear win.
I had Trout winning that fight even with the knockdown. It was Canelo's first pencil whipping by the judges IMO but the knockdown skews everyone's memory of that fight. If you watch it again and score each round out, you'd see what i mean.
But knowledgable fans like you and I, Apollo, realize how Canelo's record was all fluffed up early on and that Floyd wanted to get Canelo while he was young and unseasoned. He was only 23 and they made him kill himself to make 152. So Floyd defeated a green, sucked out Canelo before his career really got going. Canelo right now is twice the fighter he was when Floyd fought him.
Dopes that do not realize simple things like this do not deserve to join discussions.
Yeah, at that time Canelo was green but even if you put this version of Canelo against that version of Floyd, it still wouldn't make such a big difference. Canelo is tailor made for a guy like Floyd no matter if they would fight at 152, 154, 155 or 160 lbs.
They fought at 152 for a reason. Classic woulda / coulda / shoulda apologist strategy.
Not unlike the GingerHead haters who claim that Trout defeated him, ignoring the fact that it was open scoring and Team GingerHead knew that they had the decision as long as they avoided KDs or getting KTFO. GingerHead cruised to victory v Trout.
That is a very fair point Tanzio. I had Trout taking the last few rounds, but you're right since Canelo KNEW he had the lead there was no reason for him to go out of his way to try to take those rounds knowing full well he didn't need them.
caldo2025 wrote:
I had Trout winning that fight even with the knockdown. It was Canelo's first pencil whipping by the judges IMO but the knockdown skews everyone's memory of that fight. If you watch it again and score each round out, you'd see what i mean.
But knowledgable fans like you and I, Apollo, realize how Canelo's record was all fluffed up early on and that Floyd wanted to get Canelo while he was young and unseasoned. He was only 23 and they made him kill himself to make 152. So Floyd defeated a green, sucked out Canelo before his career really got going. Canelo right now is twice the fighter he was when Floyd fought him.
Dopes that do not realize simple things like this do not deserve to join discussions.
Yeah, at that time Canelo was green but even if you put this version of Canelo against that version of Floyd, it still wouldn't make such a big difference. Canelo is tailor made for a guy like Floyd no matter if they would fight at 152, 154, 155 or 160 lbs.
They fought at 152 for a reason. Classic woulda / coulda / shoulda apologist strategy.
Not unlike the GingerHead haters who claim that Trout defeated him, ignoring the fact that it was open scoring and Team GingerHead knew that they had the decision as long as they avoided KDs or getting KTFO. GingerHead cruised to victory v Trout.
People dispute that he ever deserved to be up six points on the cards over Trout, not that the judges scored it that way.
gilgamesh wrote:That is a very fair point Tanzio. I had Trout taking the last few rounds, but you're right since Canelo KNEW he had the lead there was no reason for him to go out of his way to try to take those rounds knowing full well he didn't need them.
He didn't fight any differently than he usually does. I had Trout by a point and Lara by 2 points, but both fights could have went either way. Canelo is 3 points up on GGG with the ring walk, he also has a significantly better resume.
gilgamesh wrote:That is a very fair point Tanzio. I had Trout taking the last few rounds, but you're right since Canelo KNEW he had the lead there was no reason for him to go out of his way to try to take those rounds knowing full well he didn't need them.
He didn't fight any differently than he usually does. I had Trout by a point and Lara by 2 points, but both fights could have went either way. Canelo is 3 points up on GGG with the ring walk, he also has a significantly better resume.
Trout was a lot more aggressive in those last 4 rounds of his fight with Canelo though.
apollo creed wrote:
Yeah, at that time Canelo was green but even if you put this version of Canelo against that version of Floyd, it still wouldn't make such a big difference. Canelo is tailor made for a guy like Floyd no matter if they would fight at 152, 154, 155 or 160 lbs.
They fought at 152 for a reason. Classic woulda / coulda / shoulda apologist strategy.
Not unlike the GingerHead haters who claim that Trout defeated him, ignoring the fact that it was open scoring and Team GingerHead knew that they had the decision as long as they avoided KDs or getting KTFO. GingerHead cruised to victory v Trout.
People dispute that he ever deserved to be up six points on the cards over Trout, not that the judges scored it that way.
They can dispute whatever they want to, Team GingerHead was aware that they had an insurmountable lead as long as the did not get KDed repeatedly or KTFO. Therefore they chose to cruise to victory.
If it had not been open scoring we would have seen a different fight.
