Inclusive P4P

[BAD INTENTIONS]

Why is Crawford and Lomachenko always ranked above Thurman and Spence Jr.?

[BAD INTENTIONS]

1. Ward
2. GGG
3. Rigo
4. Thurman
5. Garcia
6. Spence Jr.
7. Crawford
8. Lomachenko
9. Kovalev
10. Inoue (Why hype Lomachenko and not hype Inoue?)

[crusader]

Question for you--why would Spence be higher than either of them, if you're going on record? Going on perceived talent opens things up more...

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Thurman isn't as good as the rest of them. I have Spence above Lomachenko. The main reason is that people take the mythical rankings as something that should have to do with resume. No reason it should. Crawford is the man.

[gilgamesh]

1. Andre Ward
2. Terence Crawford
3. Vasyl Lomachenko
4. Gennady Golovkin
5. Srisaket Sor Rungvisai
6. Roman Gonzalez
7. Saul "Canelo" Alvarez
8. Mikey Garcia
9. Guillermo Rigondeaux
10. Oleksandr Usyk

[crusader]

Thurman is a tad better than Porter in my opinion. I think Crawford, Loma, and Spence are better than KT, even if they don't have a win over Danny Garcia. I think Crawford and Loma are better P4P than Spence as well, though it's certainly arguable.

Factoring resumes and perceived talent, it's not hard for me to see why most people rate Crawford and Loma higher than Thurman and Spence. I do think that Thurman gets a bit undervalued though...

[SaadOffTheDeck]

1. Andre Ward
2. Terence Crawford
3. Vasyl Lomachenko
4. Gennady Golovkin
5. Srisaket Sor Rungvisai
6. Roman Gonzalez
7. Saul "Canelo" Alvarez
8. Mikey Garcia
9. Guillermo Rigondeaux
10. Oleksandr Usyk

With the exception of Rungvisai that's a good list.

1. Crawford
2. Spence
3. GGG
4. Loma
5. Ward
6. Garcia
7. Gonzalez
8. Kovalev
9. Canelo
10. Charlo

Though mine can change on a whim.

[gilgamesh]

Thurman is a tad better than Porter in my opinion. I think Crawford, Loma, and Spence are better than KT, even if they don't have a win over Danny Garcia. I think Crawford and Loma are better P4P than Spence as well, though it's certainly arguable.

Factoring resumes and perceived talent, it's not hard for me to see why most people rate Crawford and Loma higher than Thurman and Spence. I do think that Thurman gets a bit undervalued though...

As you can see I have neither Thurman nor Spence in my P4P Top 10 at the moment. They both need to do a bit more to get there. Either that or more needs to happen for guys that are currently there to drop.

If Loma fights Rigo chances are Rigo will be departing the Top 10 afterward. Canelo may well be exiting the P4P Top 10 if he gets smashed by GGG, or vice versa.

Spence and Thurman would probably be Top 15 for me certainly, they're on the cusp of breaking into the Top 10, but need a bit more. For Thurman he's got the names, but the performances have been somewhat underwhelming. For Spence he's got the fantastic performances, but he doesn't have the names.

[gilgamesh]

With the exception of Rungvisai that's a good list.

The Rungvisai situation will sort itself out one way or another in a few weeks. Whether or not he belongs will be made clear in the rematch. I figure an earth shattering upset win is at least deserving of a brief stay where I have him until it is proven a fluke as he all think it was.

[IKSRTFO]

1. Ward
2. GGG
3. Rigo
4. Thurman
5. Garcia
6. Spence Jr.
7. Crawford
8. Lomachenko
9. Kovalev
10. Inoue (Why hype Lomachenko and not hype Inoue?)

GGG at #2?
Rigo #3?
Spence above Crawford?
Kovalev on the list but Canelo isn't?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

With the exception of Rungvisai that's a good list.

The Rungvisai situation will sort itself out one way or another in a few weeks. Whether or not he belongs will be made clear in the rematch. I figure an earth shattering win is at least deserving of a brief stay where I have him until it is proven a fluke as he all think it was.

He definitely doesn't belong above Gonzalez, that's the issue I had. Should have been more specific. I don't think it was a fluke, just a bad decision. He obviously can compete with Roman.

[gilgamesh]

I thought Gonzalez deserved the nod as well, but I was sick as hell at the time, and couldn't give it my full focus so I just kinda go with the official result. I'm glad the immediate rematch got scheduled. Like I said, it'll all sort itself out.

[boxing_rocks]

BI, please add a poll with multiple choices.

[BAD INTENTIONS]

Thurman is a tad better than Porter in my opinion. I think Crawford, Loma, and Spence are better than KT, even if they don't have a win over Danny Garcia. I think Crawford and Loma are better P4P than Spence as well, though it's certainly arguable.

Factoring resumes and perceived talent, it's not hard for me to see why most people rate Crawford and Loma higher than Thurman and Spence. I do think that Thurman gets a bit undervalued though...

Okay, perceived talent.
Then you have to ask this next question.

Example:
How would Thurman fare against Crawford's opponents? (In a P4P sense of course)
You can answer that question for Thurman, but not in reverse.
Crawford hasn't seen the P4P likes of Porter or Garcia.
Here comes some outrageous overrating of Postol (who I think is very good, but come on)

Same thing for Lomachenko and Spence Jr.
Spence has been EQUALLY to more impressive (undefeated).
He also has a bonafide P4P big statement KO win ...
that got such a snooze reaction compared to everyone on Crawford's dick for beating
a dude who has possibly the worse punching form all-time for a unified champion at 140.

Old Conspiracy BI, but it seems like HBO guys are getting more P4P leverage these days.
If you want to be on Crawford/Lomachenko fine. They are great.
But if that's the case, then you'd have to also put the same enthusiasm behind Thurman/Spence.

[BAD INTENTIONS]

1. Ward
2. GGG
3. Rigo
4. Thurman
5. Garcia
6. Spence Jr.
7. Crawford
8. Lomachenko
9. Kovalev
10. Inoue (Why hype Lomachenko and not hype Inoue?)

GGG at #2?
Rigo #3?
Spence above Crawford?
Kovalev on the list but Canelo isn't?

I had Kovalev at 1B after the first Ward fight.
Even though I thought the win was clean except last shot against an already surrendered foe,
I thought the second fight was 4-3 either way going into the 8th.
Kovalev, even if he doesn't recover mentally 100%, still KOs most fighters, and beats the rest.

Canelo fought his two best opponents in a P4P sense (Trout and Lara) even.
Cotto is washed and not a big win, just a big name.
Canelo spent the last YEAR AND A HALF dicking around with Smith, Khan and Chavez Jr.

If you want to talk perceived talent,
I think Rigo is more impressive than Lomachenko and Crawford and Thurman and Spence.
Not a big stretch, many people agree.

[crusader]

The Brook victory was nice, but I certainly don't think it springs Spence ahead of Crawford and Loma in the win department. Brook is good, but not good enough to boost Spence that much, and even old Leonard Bundu is still a top three win for ES. You talk like you consider records to be the biggest factor, but going by that measure you're really reaching to include Spence in this lastest injustice. There's certainly more flexibility when factoring in percieved talent, and I think that's where Spence shines the most at the moment.

I think Crawford is better than Thurman P4P and would generally outperform him against common opponents on an equal playing field (I think Spence does the same). Thurman does have good wins though, and I consider him a strong P4P candidate.

[IKSRTFO]

1. Ward
2. GGG
3. Rigo
4. Thurman
5. Garcia
6. Spence Jr.
7. Crawford
8. Lomachenko
9. Kovalev
10. Inoue (Why hype Lomachenko and not hype Inoue?)

GGG at #2?
Rigo #3?
Spence above Crawford?
Kovalev on the list but Canelo isn't?

I had Kovalev at 1B after the first Ward fight.
Even though I thought the win was clean except last shot against an already surrendered foe,
I thought the second fight was 4-3 either way going into the 8th.
Kovalev, even if he doesn't recover mentally 100%, still KOs most fighters, and beats the rest.

Canelo fought his two best opponents in a P4P sense (Trout and Lara) even.
Cotto is washed and not a big win, just a big name.
Canelo spent the last YEAR AND A HALF dicking around with Smith, Khan and Chavez Jr.

If you want to talk perceived talent,
I think Rigo is more impressive than Lomachenko and Crawford and Thurman and Spence.
Not a big stretch, many people agree.

Rigo actually isn't more impressive in my opinion. Rigo is overrated simply because he fights a defensive style when those guys you've mentioned are just as talented. Just because someone has exceptional defense doesn't mean they're more talented than someone who has exceptional offense.

[BAD INTENTIONS]

Rigo actually isn't more impressive in my opinion. Rigo is overrated simply because he fights a defensive style when those guys you've mentioned are just as talented. Just because someone has exceptional defense doesn't mean they're more talented than someone who has exceptional offense.

Bad argument by me because talents reflect the direction of the sport at the time, more than natural ability,
but a defensive specialist like Rigo is rarer than the offensively talented star that springs up every year.

I don't think Lomachenko and Crawford are offensive liabilities like a Pavlik or Khan.
Both can fight like Rigo and beat top fighters 10-2.
I just think Rigo's movement, defensively and offensively, is superior to Lomachenko and Crawford.

Also, I think they're both extra offensive because they are big guys for their weight classes.
Rigo always looks visibly smaller than 122 pound dudes.

I don't think you should even put someone in the ring with Rigo if they are shorter than him.

[IKSRTFO]

Rigo actually isn't more impressive in my opinion. Rigo is overrated simply because he fights a defensive style when those guys you've mentioned are just as talented. Just because someone has exceptional defense doesn't mean they're more talented than someone who has exceptional offense.

Bad argument by me because talents reflect the direction of the sport at the time, more than natural ability,
but a defensive specialist like Rigo is rarer than the offensively talented star that springs up every year.

I don't think Lomachenko and Crawford are offensive liabilities like a Pavlik or Khan.
Both can fight like Rigo and beat top fighters 10-2.
I just think Rigo's movement, defensively and offensively, is superior to Lomachenko and Crawford.

Also, I think they're both extra offensive because they are big guys for their weight classes.
Rigo always looks visibly smaller than 122 pound dudes.

I don't think you should even put someone in the ring with Rigo if they are shorter than him.

He just fights more defense than they do but I doubt that he is that much superior. He's been hurt more times than they have.

And FYI, Prince Naseem was around the same height as Rigo. I don't think Mares or Russell are that much taller if that.

[Kilsby]

Is it just me or does anyone else not think Crawford is all that?

He is CLEARLY the best at 140lb but does anyone else think this is a very weak division.

Don't get me wrong, the guy can fight, but I'd fancy Thurman & Spence to do a job on him if he went up and below I think if Mickey Garcia stepped up from 135lb he would give Crawford fits.

[Kilsby]

Beating a 34year old African, a lanky streak of piss and going the distance with Ricky Burns doesn't scream P4P for me.

Clearly the best in his division...... but a weak division it is.

[Mexi-Box]

Thurman isn't as good as the rest of them. I have Spence above Lomachenko. The main reason is that people take the mythical rankings as something that should have to do with resume. No reason it should. Crawford is the man.

Only people on this site argue that because it's full of casuals like yourself. How laughable to have Spence above Lomachenko. If this were a real forum, you'd be laughed right out of it.

[Jip]

1. Andre Ward
2. Terence Crawford
3. Vasyl Lomachenko
4. Gennady Golovkin
5. Srisaket Sor Rungvisai
6. Roman Gonzalez
7. Saul "Canelo" Alvarez
8. Mikey Garcia
9. Guillermo Rigondeaux
10. Oleksandr Usyk

With the exception of Rungvisai that's a good list.

1. Crawford
2. Spence
3. GGG
4. Loma
5. Ward
6. Garcia
7. Gonzalez
8. Kovalev
9. Canelo
10. Charlo

Though mine can change on a whim.

I am irritated. I thought you focused so much on record when ranking p4p.

How has mikey a better record than canelo or spence a better record than GGG.

Wasnt your atg p4p list with greb & langford as 1 and 2 without ali in the top 10. That is record focused Because in terms of boxing they cant compete with ali.