WILDER 6-5 over KING KONG ORTIZ---too hi

[Kalan]

I respect Wilder's ability. He's a very good fighter in comparison to Washington, Szpilka, Arreola, Stiverne, Duhaupas, and Molina..

This will be his 7th World Title Fight which ties him with Marciano.. I think he'll be champion again in the future -- but this run is most likely over... I like Ortiz about 5-1 over him.. Wilder needs to land his right hand cleanly on this slick, hard punching character.. Wilder's got a big right hand -- and the right hand is the weapon of choice against a southpaw.. However this is not McGregor fighting Mayweather. This is a man with serious skills, not a babe in the woods..

Ortiz's right hooks and uppercuts are deadly, but he didn't look particularly deadly, sharp, or impressive in his last fight with David Allen.. It may not be age catching up with him yet, so much as the opponent was so lackluster.. Ortiz couldn't get anyone to fight him. So he keeps going down the line until David Allen says "Yes I'll fight." How the Hell do you get up for a fight with an opponent like David Allen?? ... The next guy in line was Joey Abell... On the other hand, maybe Ortiz DIDN'T WANT to look good against Allen.. If you're pushing 39 you better get a big fight in hurry -- or the game is over for you.. If you look a little slow and not too sharp -- like maybe you're aging at last -- you might get some interest going.

If you're an undefeated Heavyweight, with real good skills, a devastating punch, and a slick and confusing southpaw style... unless somebody really thinks they can beat you... or make a ton of money fighting you... you're not going to get any big fights if your potential opponents can avoid you... This is not going to be Klitschko or Joshua money -- so it's not the money.. Ortiz has the Wilder team believing they can beat him.

Marciano was the undisputed champ. Wilder isnt. He isnt 'tied with marciano'

Wilder isn't tied yet because he hasn't beaten Ortiz..,and he probably won't ... But if he does it will give him 6 Title Defenses and Marciano had 6 as well. Wilder would have beaten much higher caliber challengers.. Walcott was on the slide and ready to retire.. Charles on the slide and was beaten by a Light Heavyweight and a very slow Heavyweight the previous year...LaStarza was on the slide and beaten by novice Rocky Jones a couple fights earlier.. Don Cockell was knocked out umpteen times before and was no good.. Moore was another Light Heavyweight, and a really old one at that.

[Evander]

This looks like Joshua's camp are throwing Ortiz at Wilder to build up the unification down the road.

[Bard of Boxrec]

The Ortiz that showed up against Jennings I would be confident picking. But who knows if he's the same anymore.

[candyslim]

Kalan is the only other poster to make the same point I did - that Ortiz, with time running out, may have recognized that appearing to be the best heavyweight in the world has got him precisely nowhere. Two fights later after looking distinctly unimpressive not to say totally knackered, and hey presto, he's suddenly got a choice of which heavyweight crown he fancies going for, either late this year or early next ... 'go figure' as they say.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I gotta give that a 0 percent chance of being correct. More like he's lazy as fornicate, his whole career has been lazy.

[candyslim]

Saad my theory is just a theory. It may be right, more likely it isn't. Even I don't entirely buy into it.

One thing I can be categorically and absolutely certain about however, is whatever the chances are (of that theory being correct), it sure as hell isn't zero percent .

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Zero percent, definitely zero.

[candyslim]

You do have a tendency to see things as either black or white don't you? Not one for the nuances.

[Bard of Boxrec]

Zero percent, definitely zero.

Why? Certainly plausible that he chose to take it easy against Scott and Allen knowing a blowout would be useless for his career anyway.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

You do have a tendency to see things as either black or white don't you? Not one for the nuances.

Not at all. This is just stupid, not remotely feasible that a guy who is basically on an audition for the biggest promoter in the world intentionally looked like shit to try and get a big fight. 0 percent is being kind.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Zero percent, definitely zero.

Why? Certainly plausible that he chose to take it easy against Scott and Allen knowing a blowout would be useless for his career anyway.

Because it makes no sense. Ortiz doesn't have problems getting fights as much as he struggles to get his lazy ass in the ring. A blow out would have done far more for his career than being boring.

[Tarkus]

If this fight happens and if it is a fair fight then Ortiz is a huge favorite to win. 11/10 is a gift.

[candyslim]

Luis Ortiz has struggled to find decent opposition willing to fight him, and he has been the stand out contender for about 5 years. I have to admit I don't khow anything about the Ustinov opportunity which Saad has alluded to on another thread, but from where I'm sitting it looks like nobody wanted to know and now he's looking a bit beatable, he can suddenly name which champion he wants to fight.

This might be serendipitous or it might be by design. If you agree with Saad then this is not a tactical manoeuvre by Luis Ortiz. I'm inclined to agree, but if Ortiz didn't deliberately court a title shot by appearing to have lost some of his effectiveness, then maybe he should have done, and done it a while back, as now it seems to be working out for him.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

GBP got him Thompson and Jennings. He had one of the wba titles and a fight with Ustinov on a big ppv undercard(maybe cotton/canelo) then he complained about money and bought out his contract to audition for hearn. What fights has he had trouble getting? Even a single example? What makes his struggle different than Wilders? Deontay would have fought Ortiz years ago.

[candyslim]

Well just recently he's been trying to get Joshua and he's been trying to get Wilder for a long time now. Eddie Hearn has offered plausible reasons why AJ has to fight Pulev first much to Ortiz's frustration. Ironic that now he has a choice. Other than that it's not easy to list individuals because he tends to call out anyone and everyone, but I don't think it's any secret that fighters generally have looked at his crushing of Thompson and Jennings and decided there are easier pickings out there.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Well just recently he's been trying to get Joshua and he's been trying to get Wilder for a long time now. Eddie Hearn has offered plausible reasons why AJ has to fight Pulev first much to Ortiz's frustration. Ironic that now he has a choice. Other than that it's not easy to list individuals because he tends to call out anyone and everyone, but I don't think it's any secret that fighters generally have looked at his crushing of Thompson and Jennings and decided there are easier pickings out there.

So nobody at all? I agree.

[Kalan]

Luis Ortiz has struggled to find decent opposition willing to fight him, and he has been the stand out contender for about 5 years.

That is exactly correct. He got a Jennings fight -- looked fabulous. Jennings easily went the distance with Klitschko. And then NOTHING!!!

Gary Russell looked tremendous taking a Featherweight Title making Jhonny Gonzalez look like an incompetent idiot... So he's got 1 fight in 2015... 1 fight in 2016... and 1 fight this year against challengers you never heard of in your life... Fights with Selby.. Santa Cruz.. Frampton.. Mares.. and Cuellar are about as likely as another total eclipse of the sun over North America in this decade..

Gennady Golovkin was the mandatory challenger for the Lineal Middleweight Title for over 5 years... Don't tell me that Martinez, Cotto, and Canelo were anxious to fight him. They fought people like Murray, Gleal, Khan, and every bum they could find. Until it looks like GGG is slowing up.

Ortiz was mandatory for Wilder before... He was mandatory for AJ... They didn't want him til he looked beatable... Joshua said "I don't give a fukking shiit about title belts" at one point... He's the money man in he division. He'll fight you when he feels like it. Now that Ortiz looks old-n-beatable he's seeing movement.

[candyslim]

Well I mentioned Joshua and Wilder. He's been at the top of the rankings for years, but I don't think I've heard any of his peers expressing any desire to fight him. Not Pulev, Povetkin, Chagaev, none of them, not even the Klitschkos. It's difficult to accuse any individual of ducking him but there's no danger of getting crushed in the stampede to get to him.

I'm sure it's not him, he's not scared of anyone. He's supposedly 38 but might be in his forties. He has an opportunity to make enough fighting Joshua to set him up in retirement, but he's willing to risk that to fight Wilder for half or even a third of the purse, giving up his mandatory WBA slot/ guaranteed shot at Joshua early next year.

Why? The only explanation that makes sense to me is that he doesn't see it as giving up the Joshua fight because he is supremely confident of beating Wilder.

It's obvious you don't like him Saad but to me he is clearly a real fighting man. Props to Wilder too because he's taking a huge risk as well that he could have snuck past but chose not to.

[Oiky]

Wilders not on the same level as Ortiz

[SenorPipino]

Ortiz is just another ordinary heavy who looks good to some because the division is so mediocre.

Wilder should be a 3-1 pick over the lazy Cuban. More athletic, quicker and a sharper puncher

Don't let that scary nickname fool you. DW will make King Kong look more like Mickey Mouse.

Wilder by convincing KO.

[Badhusker]

Luis Ortiz has struggled to find decent opposition willing to fight him, and he has been the stand out contender for about 5 years.

That is exactly correct. He got a Jennings fight -- looked fabulous. Jennings easily went the distance with Klitschko. And then NOTHING!!!

Gary Russell looked tremendous taking a Featherweight Title making Jhonny Gonzalez look like an incompetent idiot... So he's got 1 fight in 2015... 1 fight in 2016... and 1 fight this year against challengers you never heard of in your life... Fights with Selby.. Santa Cruz.. Frampton.. Mares.. and Cuellar are about as likely as another total eclipse of the sun over North America in this decade..

Gennady Golovkin was the mandatory challenger for the Lineal Middleweight Title for over 5 years... Don't tell me that Martinez, Cotto, and Canelo were anxious to fight him. They fought people like Murray, Gleal, Khan, and every bum they could find. Until it looks like GGG is slowing up.

Ortiz was mandatory for Wilder before... He was mandatory for AJ... They didn't want him til he looked beatable... Joshua said "I don't give a fukking shiit about title belts" at one point... He's the money man in he division. He'll fight you when he feels like it. Now that Ortiz looks old-n-beatable he's seeing movement.

I could be wrong but I don't remember Ortiz ever being a mandatory for Wilder.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Well I mentioned Joshua and Wilder. He's been at the top of the rankings for years, but I don't think I've heard any of his peers expressing any desire to fight him. Not Pulev, Povetkin, Chagaev, none of them, not even the Klitschkos. It's difficult to accuse any individual of ducking him but there's no danger of getting crushed in the stampede to get to him.

I'm sure it's not him, he's not scared of anyone. He's supposedly 38 but might be in his forties. He has an opportunity to make enough fighting Joshua to set him up in retirement, but he's willing to risk that to fight Wilder for half or even a third of the purse, giving up his mandatory WBA slot/ guaranteed shot at Joshua early next year.

Why? The only explanation that makes sense to me is that he doesn't see it as giving up the Joshua fight because he is supremely confident of beating Wilder.

It's obvious you don't like him Saad but to me he is clearly a real fighting man. Props to Wilder too because he's taking a huge risk as well that he could have snuck past but chose not to.

I'm indifferent to him, the only obvious dislike is yours for wilder and common sense.

[KiwiRider]

Don't let that scary nickname fool you. DW will make King Kong look more like Mickey Mouse.

Sorry Senor, but we are going to have to repair your simile. Micky Mouse is a mouse, King Kong is an ape. I suggest you stick to the simian simile and try;
"DW will make King Kong look like Bubbles the prolapsed chimp"
Better

[candyslim]

That's a pretty churlish kind of comment and given what I said about Wilder in the very sentence above your comment, I'd suggest it's not what I said that lacks common sense.

I like Wilder. What I've not liked is his resume. Now he looks like doing something about it, and assuming the fight goes ahead, Wilder will have won my respect.

[candyslim]

The similarity of the simian simile similarly made me smile