Vinnie Curto - WBF Super Cruiserweight Title Fight (Listing Missing Title)

[ArthurPoet]

This event was a "WBF Super Cruiserweight Title" fight and the listing does not include that it was a title fight:

http://boxrec.com/en/event/36473/56362
Jimmy Haynes v Vinnie Curto
Cruiserweight Contest, 12 Rounds
Friday 20, September 1996
State Fair Park 4-H Building, Lincoln, Nebraska, USA

...

[claudevsq]

It's in the wiki of the fight.

[ArthurPoet]

It's in the wiki of the fight.

I am not sure if you are referring to the Wikipedia page for him (which I am aware of) or if you are saying that there is some other wiki of the fight that notes that it is a title fight, which I have not seen. Either way, does this mean that the listing notation for this fight on BoxRec will be updated to categorize it as a title fight? I am asking because Vinnie Curto is a personal friend of mine, he is 67, and this title was his life's dream, and he finally achieved it at 41 years old, so you can imagine what it means to him. And he goes to BoxRec all the time to show kids he is training his record, and the listing for his record does not include the notation on this fight that this was a title fight. His other title fights, which he lost, are notated as title fights, but the one where he finally won does not have the notation.

See his record here:
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/16203

It would really mean a lot to him if this were updated.

[claudevsq]

I mean, if you look at the show, there's a book symbol at the right of every fight, which may either be open or closed. If you click on that symbol, you will see the title. All titles which are not in our drop down list of titles as well as eliminators etc. are put into that "fight wiki".

[claudevsq]

See: http://boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight:56362

[ArthurPoet]

I understand. Here's the thing ... Vinnie is not very technical (I actually am a programmer, so I get it) but Vinnie is an old school older guy, and more importantly, he is a bit foggy, if you know what I mean, being hit in the head so many times and all ... so even if I explained it to him and showed him that other page, he simply would never remember it, he is just not capable ... so all he sees is that the listing on the main page for his record for the Champion fight of his lifetime does not list it as a title fight, while both the Chong-Pal Park fights and the Mark Frazie ARE listed as title fights:

see here: http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/16203

Please, it would mean the world to him if you would correct the main listing on his home page. He is a kind old man, who still teaches kids for free all the time, and has since his early days, and he points people to your site all the time. All the time. If anyone has earned the recognition, he has. And btw, he actually fought 107 professional bouts, not 76, and he has the newspaper clips to prove it, but having all those fights listed is not that important to him, however the title listing for his WBF Championship WIN is. Is there any way you can update his main page listing?

[Grey]

Thanks! If you ever get the chance, you can send the newspaper clips of the missing fights to [email protected] and we can do research

[Matt]

I doubt Curto had those fights, as his record magically inflated after around 1978 in newspaper reports. He had already become a main event level fighter, making me believe he counted some semi-pro bouts, or something of that nature. Our records are pretty much close to reported as of his 1977 bout with Nat King, for example.

[ArthurPoet]

I doubt Curto had those fights, as his record magically inflated after around 1978 in newspaper reports. He had already become a main event level fighter, making me believe he counted some semi-pro bouts, or something of that nature. Our records are pretty much close to reported as of his 1977 bout with Nat King, for example.

As I said, the additional bouts are not really important (I will get the clippings from his storage as soon as I can), all that I am mainly concerned with right now is that his final title fight, which is not in dispute, against Jimmy Haynes on 1996-09-20, is reported as a WBF CHAMPIONSHIP title fight on his main page. Can you update the listing for his main page listing to include this notation? It would mean a lot to him and he has earned it.

[ArthurPoet]

I doubt Curto had those fights, as his record magically inflated after around 1978 in newspaper reports. He had already become a main event level fighter, making me believe he counted some semi-pro bouts, or something of that nature. Our records are pretty much close to reported as of his 1977 bout with Nat King, for example.

I just re-read your comment, and I might have misunderstood you. Are you saying that you doubt Curto had 107 fights, as he has claimed to me? If that is what you are disputing, I will not argue with you, as I have not personally seen those clippings yet, and they are not really my concern, nor does Vinnie really care about that. Or are you saying that you doubt his title fight with Jimmy Haynes on 1996-09-20 at the State Fair Park 4-H Building in Lincoln, Nebraska. I was under the impression that this fight was not in dispute, nor was it in dispute that this was a WBF Championship title fight.

[ArthurPoet]

And to be clear, I would not expect you to update his record to 107 fights without seeing the newspaper clippings and then also independently verifying that they were officially sanctioned fights, and nor would Vinnie expect this, and I was not suggesting that you should. Forgive me if my comment implied that I did. I was merely volunteering information that he has shared with me. As soon as is convenient, I will get copies of those clippings and send them to you and you can determine if they are sanctioned fights. Either way, all I or Vinnie really cares about is the listing for his WBF Championship bout with Jimmy Haynes.

[claudevsq]

We cannot do more than what we have done for as far as the title goes, simply one of the reasons being that "Super cruiserweight" in not listed in our weight class listing either...

[AntonS]

IMO, it should be ditched out of comment section & only acknowledged in bout's wiki......as is.

[claudevsq]

Exactly. I agree with AntonS on this one.

[ArthurPoet]

Dear BoxRec Editors,
I appreciate your time and consideration, and let me begin by saying that I respect the job you guys do and the disciplined rigor necessary to ensure and maintain the integrity of this site, and having been a moderator myself in various online groups over the years I know the time involved, and for you here I am sure it is far more demanding due to the need to independently validate official records before allowing a record to be updated. I get it and I respect this, especially since many people want to claim professional titles and ranking entirely unearned. This is not the case with Vinnie Curto. I myself have personally been training in Martial Arts for over 45 years, and I am a part time instructor, so I do deeply appreciate what you are up against because there is nothing more offensive and disrespectful than folks who make false claims in this arena. And, as a Database programmer, I am also aware of the fact that the change I am requesting involves work, namely, you will need to create a new TITLE section for the short-lived SUPERCRUISOR weight division, so you may not feel the effort is worth it. I get it. I realize this is a slight bit of a headache. However, this is an officially sanctioned WBF title, so you should, and you can check with the son of Jose Sullemon, who ran the WBF at the time, to verify, and if you want your records to be accurate, you should, since Vinnie Curto is being inducted into the Boxing Hall of Fame next year, which you can confirm with Rick Ferris. He is being inducted along with Roberto Durán and the Ruelas brothers. In fact, it was Vinnie Curto who first took the Ruelas brothers to Ted Goosen at TenGoose Boxing, back in the day.

I am asking you politely, to respect Vinnie Curto, a man who has given his life to the sport, we are talking blood sweat and tears, literally. This is a man who trained with Angelo Dundee for 5 years at the renowned 5TH STREET GYM, and was at Ali’s Deer Lake PA camp, and even sparred with Mohamed Ali himself. It was Angelo Dundee himself who launched Vinnie’s professional boxing career. At 17 years old he went blow-for-blow with former heavyweight champion, Jimmy Ellis, at the 5th Street Gym, earning Dundee’s respect. Prior to that, Vinnie trained with Goodie And Pat Petronelli in the Brockton gym alongside Marvelous Marvin Hagler, sparred with him often, and apparently, the very first time Hagler ever put on gloves and entered a ring and boxed was against Vinnie Curto. As your records show, Vinnie went toe-to-toe with Bad Benny Brisco, twice, along with numerous other top tier fighters of his day. I could go on and on. Hell, he has sparred most of the legends of his era. In many ways, he really is a legend. Yeah, I am a fan, I admit it, but I do think he has earned it. I mean no disrespect and I am sorry to be a nuisance, I am merely respectfully pleading his case, because the guy is my friend and sometimes it is the little things that mean a lot.

You mention that you have some question about his record after the Nat King fight and as I understand it, yes, there were several years where his license was revoked in the USA due to a disagreement with a local promoter (there is a story there, I am sure) which is apparently why he was fighting in Canada and other countries for several years, but his good friend, Frank Sinatra, helped him get his license restored, so that was long since corrected and his boxing license was fully reinstated in the USA. Btw, apparently, he actually fought Nat King more times then you have listed, or so Vinnie claims. Vinnie has a scrap book of all his fights. As soon as I can, I will make copies and send you photos of his other fights.

My own father had dementia and passed away 4 years ago, and admittedly, Vinnie does remind me of my own dad, 20 years prior to his passing in the early stages of his “forgetfulness”, which is to be expected given how many blows Vinnie has taken to the head in spite of being called a “defensive genuius” by Dundee, but that is his short term memory, his long term memory is surprisingly crystal clear and intact. He tells stories in impressively vivid detail. However, the veracity of those stories or the comprehensive listing of his alleged 107 pro fights is not what I am concerned with, I really am only concerned with having the final fight of his career, his crowning life achievement, his life dream --- winning a WBF World Title fight --- something that is not at all in dispute, is properly listed on his main page so that it correctly shows that his fight with Jimmy Haynes was a sanctioned WBF World Champion title fight -- SuperCruiser weight division. I am asking you kindly, respectfully, to do the right thing.