Ones and for all

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I agree that a current p4p list needs go no further than your eyes. All time rankings should be strictly based on resume unless you need a tiebreaker. Same with current divisional rankings.

[Kilsby]

My dad used to say "if you put glitter on dog shit its going to look good - but at the end of the day, its still a shit"

This is why a zero fight novice can pass the eye test against a journeyman.

You achieve P4P status when you can look like glitter when fighting glitter so to speak - think about it.

[Jip]

I agree that a current p4p list needs go no further than your eyes. All time rankings should be strictly based on resume unless you need a tiebreaker. Same with current divisional rankings.

Ok.

Or to make to make it more easy have 2 p4p atg lists.

One where you fully focus on record and achievemants, the other where you focus on who you think is better based on quality.

[Jip]

My dad used to say "if you put glitter on dog poo its going to look good - but at the end of the day, its still a poo"

This is why a zero fight novice can pass the eye test against a journeyman.

You achieve P4P status when you can look like glitter when fighting glitter so to speak - think about it.

Does the power or speed chance weather you fight s d level opponents or an atg opponent?

When julian jackson fought a cab driver or when he faced a a level opponent, did his punching power look different?

My point is, the quality doesnt change. Either you got atg skills or atg footwork or you dont regardless if who you fighting.

[Kilsby]

Does the power or speed chance weather you fight s d level opponents or an atg opponent?

When julian jackson fought a cab driver or when he faced a a level opponent, did his punching power look different?

My point is, the quality doesnt change. Either you got atg skills or atg footwork or you dont regardless if who you fighting.[/quote]

^^^
To answer your question Jip, the power & speed does not change when facing a D level opponent or an ATG.

But your ability to land the perfect shot on one does

[Kilsby]

I'm a football fan so I'll use another analogy rather than the dog poo one

You can score an unbelievable beautiful passing football goal if your a top football team playing against a lower division side.

After all, you have more time on the ball, the opposition don't mark you as tight, their defence isn't as well organised etc.

But when you play a top side in the final of a top European competition, do you agree it is harder to create that type of goal?

If you manage to do so.... That's what would merit plaudits!

[SaadOffTheDeck]

I agree that a current p4p list needs go no further than your eyes. All time rankings should be strictly based on resume unless you need a tiebreaker. Same with current divisional rankings.

But
Ok.

Or to make to make it more easy have 2 p4p atg lists.

One where you fully focus on record and achievemants, the other where you focus on who you think is better based on quality.

That would be an incredibly silly list.

[Ossyrules]

Jip you need to study boxing and consider its history

I like you cos your posts are funny but you really don't know your stuff

[Tanzio]

My dad used to say "if you put glitter on dog poo its going to look good - but at the end of the day, its still a poo"

This is why a zero fight novice can pass the eye test against a journeyman.

You achieve P4P status when you can look like glitter when fighting glitter so to speak - think about it.

Does the power or speed chance weather you fight s d level opponents or an atg opponent?

When julian jackson fought a cab driver or when he faced a a level opponent, did his punching power look different?

My point is, the quality doesnt change. Either you got atg skills or atg footwork or you dont regardless if who you fighting.

I get it now nalpiJ, you meant 11111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 . . .

[lazboy]

Remember when Jip said Chavez Jr was going to beat Canelo... hehehehhehe (school girl giggle) points finger at Jip hehehhehehehe

[Jip]

I'm a football fan so I'll use another analogy rather than the dog poo one

You can score an unbelievable beautiful passing football goal if your a top football team playing against a lower division side.

After all, you have more time on the ball, the opposition don't mark you as tight, their defence isn't as well organised etc.

But when you play a top side in the final of a top European competition, do you agree it is harder to create that type of goal?

If you manage to do so.... That's what would merit plaudits!

True.

So the atributes dont change and it is easier to shine against low level than against high level.

So since the atributes dont change we should be able right away to see how good a boxer is. Since mosley against an oppknent in his 10 fight and mosley who fought de la hoya to become one of the best p4p are prety much the same.

[Jip]

Remember when Jip said Chavez Jr was going to beat Canelo... hehehehhehe (school girl giggle) points finger at Jip hehehhehehehe

That was ine time off. Talk about the 10 Tones i predicted the right winner

[Jip]

Jip you need to study boxing and consider its history

I like you cos your posts are funny but you really don't know your stuff

You just mad bevause i already made you look stupid.

What has boxing history to do with what i am saying in this thread. I have boxer from every era from 40, 80 till now in my atg top 10. I know the history. I know who the real deal is and who is overrated. I like you too, but dont always bring up the "you dont know history" topic just because i dknt fall into the trap of 100 + fights record where 70 % opponents were cab driver, chavez a good example. If you dont believe me than look at boxrec and see for yourself how crap most or his.opponents were.

[Kilsby]

Jip.... Meldrick Taylor - looked a million dollars in all of hos early fights (watch them) he certainly passed the eye test...

However, when he fought an ATG in Chavez his whole career and possibly his life unravelled in just one night.

Glitter vs Glitter.

[candyslim]

If I understand correctly you are saying that boxers should be judged by 'the eye-test' rather than resume? This is all very well but the eye-test is extremely subjective, people can't always even agree on a winner when they've watched the same fight from the same viewpoint (tv), never mind make an accurate assessment of each boxer that others will necessarily agree with. Everyone thinks their opinion is the correct one, it's human nature - I never once had an opinion I didn't agree with

Realistically, comparison of ring-records and head-to-head results can be the only way to judge the respective merits of boxers and even that is a minefield, especially when you try to compare fighters of different eras or different weight classes.

and jip - it's 'once and for all'.

So if a prime loma or prime mosley fights like 10 times and you had 10 times the opportunity of an eye test. Is that enough for you to determin the quality of the boxer or not.

Do the ~13 fights of loma give you an answer if he is a better boxer than canelo for ecample for has around 50 fights. Or do you need loma to fight another 30 fights to than determin if he is better or worse than canelo?

The point is Jip many times down the years I've watched a fighter and he has looked to have all the necessary tools, an absolute dream of a fighter. Then one day he makes another move up in class and this time he gets completely exposed. Gilgamesh gave a very good example with Don Curry.

One that I particularly remember was a young Scottish featherweight by the name of Vernon Sollas. This kid looked phenomenal to my eye, and he absolutely shone in a division filled the tough and gritty domestic fighters Evan Armstrong, Revie ... can't remember the others.

I watched him at a show in London fight the Italian Elio Cotena for the European Featherweight title. Cotena was tough, game and durable but Sollas made him look like a heavy-bag for 12 rounds and if the fight had ended then it would have been 120 - 108 no question, but the fight was over the old championship distance of 15 rounds, and Cotena - his face looking like a bag of spanners - just kept plugging away and all of a sudden in round 13 or was it 14, Sollas just completely gassed out and got stopped. After that he fought a few times at domestic level IIRC but he never again looked like the same fighter.

I learned then there's a lot more to being a great fighter than looking like a million dollars.

[Jip]

Jip.... Meldrick Taylor - looked a million dollars in all of hos early fights (watch them) he certainly passed the eye test...

However, when he fought an ATG in Chavez his whole career and possibly his life unravelled in just one night.

Glitter vs Glitter.

Did you watch the fight? He beat chavez.

[Tanzio]

If you keep poking the JiplaK it will continue regurgitating 1111111.

[Kilsby]

Jip.... Meldrick Taylor - looked a million dollars in all of hos early fights (watch them) he certainly passed the eye test...

However, when he fought an ATG in Chavez his whole career and possibly his life unravelled in just one night.

Glitter vs Glitter.

Did you watch the fight? He beat chavez.

^^^
Many times.... you must be getting confused as he was tko'd in the 12th round

If you ask me was he winning the fight, that's a different question

He sure was - He undoubtedly out-boxed Chavez for the first 10 rounds, only problem was, at the start of the 11th round Chavez looked like... er .... Chavez.... & Taylor looked like he had been in a car crash & had flew through the windscreen at 80mph.

Chavez nearly killed the poor sod.

[Jip]

Jip.... Meldrick Taylor - looked a million dollars in all of hos early fights (watch them) he certainly passed the eye test...

However, when he fought an ATG in Chavez his whole career and possibly his life unravelled in just one night.

Glitter vs Glitter.

Did you watch the fight? He beat chavez.

^^^
Many times.... you must be getting confused as he was tko'd in the 12th round

If you ask me was he winning the fight, that's a different question

He sure was - He undoubtedly out-boxed Chavez for the first 10 rounds, only problem was, at the start of the 11th round Chavez looked like... er .... Chavez.... & Taylor looked like he had been in a car crash & had flew through the windscreen at 80mph.

Chavez nearly killed the poor sod.

He was winning the fight and standing and ws ready for thelast secondes and got robbed by the ref. Mexican superstars like chavez, canelo or mex us de la hoya get always a bonus with refs and judges but truth is meldrick was a better boxer than chavez. He showed it.

[Jip]

Remember when Jip said Chavez Jr was going to beat Canelo... hehehehhehe (school girl giggle) points finger at Jip hehehhehehehe

That was ine time off. Talk about the 10 Tones i predicted the right winner

You also said you were impressed by Conor McGregor's boxing ability, based on the Paulie M sparring video. Your Eye Test is poo.

Are u stupid?

For a boxer who made his debut with previously 0 fights yes i was impressed. Was i impressed in such way that i thought conor might have atg potential..hell no

[Kilsby]

Did you watch the fight? He beat chavez.

^^^
Many times.... you must be getting confused as he was tko'd in the 12th round

If you ask me was he winning the fight, that's a different question

He sure was - He undoubtedly out-boxed Chavez for the first 10 rounds, only problem was, at the start of the 11th round Chavez looked like... er .... Chavez.... & Taylor looked like he had been in a car crash & had flew through the windscreen at 80mph.

Chavez nearly killed the poor sod.

He was winning the fight and standing and ws ready for thelast secondes and got robbed by the ref. Mexican superstars like chavez, canelo or mex us de la hoya get always a bonus with refs and judges but truth is meldrick was a better boxer than chavez. He showed it.

^^^
That's why he re-matched him & got stopped in 8.

Never the same after the massacre of the first fight. You know it & I do.

[Jip]

^^^
Many times.... you must be getting confused as he was tko'd in the 12th round

If you ask me was he winning the fight, that's a different question

He sure was - He undoubtedly out-boxed Chavez for the first 10 rounds, only problem was, at the start of the 11th round Chavez looked like... er .... Chavez.... & Taylor looked like he had been in a car crash & had flew through the windscreen at 80mph.

Chavez nearly killed the poor sod.

He was winning the fight and standing and ws ready for thelast secondes and got robbed by the ref. Mexican superstars like chavez, canelo or mex us de la hoya get always a bonus with refs and judges but truth is meldrick was a better boxer than chavez. He showed it.

^^^
That's why he re-matched him & got stopped in 8.

Never the same after the massacre of the first fight. You know it & I do.

It wasnt the punches. It was because he was treazed unfair and therefore didnt regain the will to train hard. Being Robbed is what killed him mental and his career, not some pjnches at the end of the rd

[Kilsby]

Ok... It wasn't the punches - can't argue anymore

Dr. Flip Homansky, who examined Taylor after the fight, said, "Meldrick suffered a facial fracture, he was urinating pure blood, his face was grotesquely swollen...this was a kid who was truly beaten up to the face, the body, and the brain."

[Kilsby]

Also, Taylor was to blame for his own downfall.

Richard Steele asked Taylor twice after the standing 8 count, I can't remember it word for word but it was something like "are you ok?" or "do you want to continue?"

He got no response to either question other than a blank stare. This was a man who was so dazed (Taylor) that he stumbled back to Chavez's corner after round 11.

He later never refuted that he was asked these questions by Steele his only excuse was he couldn't hear the referee over the noise of the crowd.

Dispite the fact the TV clearly picked this up and he was stood less that 15cm from Taylors face.

This is the undisputed hard evidence.

I'll leave you to draw your own conclusion whether he was fit to continue regardless of the time left in the bout.

[gilgamesh]

He was a beaten man, but the fight was over. He wouldn't have taken any more punishment, and he should've gotten his decision victory that he deserved.

Such is Boxing though. Sometimes the way it's supposed to go, and the way it goes are two different things.