Anthony Joshua vs the All-Time Great Heavyweights

[Controversial]

Joshua was a man of the streets and a bad-ass drug dealer before he took up boxing.

He was arrested once for possessing a tiny amount of weed, hardly a bad ass drug dealer.

[Kalan]

None of this changes the fact that Joshua has hit the deck. Which is all I said. And the reason I said it, is because in other cases you have alluded that you believe that such a moment is sentinel in a boxers career.

Now....I think that belief/opinion is a plate of tripe, but I respect that you believe it. But you don't seem to apply this opinion to your newest and bestest personal fav.

Just sayin'.......

What it might change -- if the brain is shifted into gear and emotional nostalgia put aside -- is the minds of people who think former champs who suffered many knockdowns and losses to massive and mediocre underdogs by KO -- could do a thing to Joshua, but get flattened by him...

If an ATG who stands 6'7" X 240 in the best shape of his life -- and who owned some of the greatest weapons in fistic history, including his jab, straight right, and left hook -- and has a career KO record of 77% -- when he gets a green rookie with 18 fights hurt he's supposed to finish him off.. Joshua was talking to Klitschko, telling him he wasn't getting the job done.. "If you don't finish me this round I'm gonna knock you out."

That's a lot of moxie for a guy with 44 rounds coming -- in comparison to about 400 for Klitschko. Joshua was a man of the streets and a bad-ass drug dealer before he took up boxing. That's why his survival instincts are finely tuned. He's been in tough situations before.

Holmes, Louis, Ali, Lewis, Tyson, Foreman, and Frazier ate a lot of punches and all got knocked out...all but Holmes and Ali by big underdogs... Not things that Anthony Joshua ever does... We're not pointing out that he suffered 1 lonely knockdown -- but he came back and won by KO against an ATG in one of the greatest fights in the History of Boxing... Those other ATG's didn't manage to do that.

All of which doesn't alter the FACTS that

1. He was 41 years old at the time of the Joshua fight.

2. Two years previously he had only managed to outpoint 19 fight Jennings, and even then he had a point deducted for holding.

3.17 months previous to fighting Joshua, he LOST to the 24 fight Fury.

Folks can judge for themselves just how much of his former self Vlad was in April of this year.

And they judged that he was pretty damned good... He turned the clock back, looking better than he had in many years... To no avail because AJ is too superior -- fighting one of the greatest Heavyweight Fights of all time and thrilling the shiit out of the entire world... That fight made both twice as big.

You've never seen anything like it... There's not really another Heavyweight Title Fight that can be compared to it.

[HomicideHenry]

I see Kalan is still going on about Joshua being an ATG for beating an ATG in Klitschko... That's like saying Joe Louis was an ATG the moment he toppled Carnera, Baer and Sharkey... Or saying Marciano was an ATG the moment he defeated Louis... Time will surely tell, but I'm more interested in Wilder vs Ortiz because I think either guy probably could defeat Joshua... If it takes Joshua longer to put away Kubrat Pulev than it did Klitschko, or hell gets into another dogfight barely winning: it'll show you Joshua's greatness is merely an illusion of your mind.

[Kalan]

You mean YOU judged Klitchko as being pretty damned good. What you had was an old man, and a comparative novice taking it in turns to avoid each other ... That would have sent a glass eye to sleep, compared to any of the Frazier / Ali trilogy. Holmes / Norton, Holmes / Shavers, Holyfield / Tyson 1. The list goes on. A 41 year old man coming off a defeat v a 27 year old guy does not " The best ever Heavyweight title fight " make.

Accept in this particular instance... Sports writers and the public agreed that Joshua vs Klitschko was a spectacular Heavyweight Championship Fight. Very dramatic and punishing. A glass eye is already dead to the world -- but no Boxing fan went to sleep during the unfolding of Joshua vs Klitschko.

Little dudes: Frazier, Ali, Norton, Shavers, Holyfield, Tyson etc., suffered numerous defeats also.. A 41-year old boxer with 25 World Heavyweight Championship Fights, and 68 professional fights over 21 years is likely to have 3 or 4 defeats.. Everyone gave Vlad a great shot because of Joshua's lack of rounds, lack of fights, and lack of extensive amateur experience.. Both fighters took devastating blows that smashed them to the canvas.. It took 11 rounds for the strapping young Champion to finally overcome the old warrior.. Whistling left hooks and ripping rights sailing over AJ's ducking and slipping head as Klitschko tried in vain to land the killer shot. Both men were boxing and punching extremely well.. Finally Joshua forged back into the lead in the 10th and ended it in the 11th -- with 2 more knockdowns and a ferocious fiery finish.

My all-time favorite Heavyweight Fight before Joshua vs Klitschko was Holmes-Witherspoon... It was one of the hardest fought fights I've ever seen. Tim amazed me with his skills. He only had 15 pro fights and 7 amateur fights so I couldn't believe what he did. I thought he was the future of the division, but he started getting fat and slacking off with drugs and stuff. But that great effort was the highlight of his career for me.

I loved Ibeabuchi vs Tua.. Ike had only 16 pro fights.. Tua had 28 fights and said Ike was too green to beat him.. Both men landed brutal punches and fought at a hard pace.. You thought the bigger, ringing shots would cause more damage but neither ever blinked.. Ike got the D and looked even better against Chris Byrd.. I thought Ibeabuchi was the man at that point. Then he gets locked up for abusing a sex industry worker. They threw the key away.

Another good one was Lewis vs Mercer.. Brutal trench warfare.. I wished it was a 12-rounder, but it was great while it lasted -- the whole 10 rounds was back and forth, with Lewis barely grabbing control with a monstrous physical effort. That was before LL polished his jab and footwork skills.

[Kalan]

I see Kalan is still going on about Joshua being an ATG for beating an ATG in Klitschko... That's like saying Joe Louis was an ATG the moment he toppled Carnera, Baer and Sharkey... Or saying Marciano was an ATG the moment he defeated Louis... Time will surely tell, but I'm more interested in Wilder vs Ortiz because I think either guy probably could defeat Joshua... If it takes Joshua longer to put away Kubrat Pulev than it did Klitschko, or hell gets into another dogfight barely winning: it'll show you Joshua's greatness is merely an illusion of your mind.

That doesn't make a lick of sense.. Is Ali supposed to finish off Norton and Frazier faster than Foreman to prove he's better???

What if Ingemar Johansson knocks undefeated Eddie Machen out ice cold in the 1st round... But Sonny Liston takes 10 rounds to decision Machen???

Just because you beat a guy last time, does it guarantee you win the rematch??? ... You may well beat him again -- but different day, different result.

Obviously the Joshua vs Pulev battle has different style dynamics than Klitschko vs Pulev ... Pulev was designed for Klitschko to hook out. Joshua has a great left hook as well, but I haven't seen that much of it.. It's probably not as finished a weapon as Wladimir's left hook was at 38.

[BoxBuzz]

Ouch, I believe you are using lines of reasoning that you have utilized in mirrored reverse in past contributions.


Be careful here, because the Fact is, much of the "logic" we all use to make our points in these ongoing situations, can be very specifically contextual.

[Kalan]

Lewis never seemed that much helpless, desperate or exhausted is his entire career as Joshua displayed against Wlad

Lewis was FLATTENED by MASSIVE UNDERDOGS!!!!! ... Give me a freakin' BREAK with all the negativity and outrageous misstatements about Joshua.

He's NOT a body builder... He DOESN'T run out of gas...his opponents do and flag like crazy... And he DOESN'T get hit with big loaded shots out of the blue...like your friend Lennox Lewis... He DOESN'T gets nailed with loaded left hooks like your friend Muhammad Ali... He DOESN'T get ripped with jabs and straight punches like your buddy George Foreman... And he DOESN'T get ripped and trounced by a 42/1 UNDERDOG like your idol Mikey Tyson.

Wait until Joshua actually gets beaten -- like all the above were beaten -- before going on and on... Because he's pretty damned good and he may not.

[BoxBuzz]

I agree that Joshua is good, and time will tell just how good.

But I have to ask, if the shot that dropped him from Vlad, (a very old codger,) wasn't "from out of the blue".....what color was it from?

[Kalan]

Out of the blue means the ordinary shot the inept Renaldo Snipes drilled Holmes with -- Or the loaded right Hasim Rahman landed on Lewis.

In contrast, Wladimir set AJ up masterfully -- using all the experience he acquired in 69 professional fights and 400 professional rounds... AJ had only 44 rounds.. If you watch the sequence right before the knockdown Josh slipped one jab and then another -- and was looking for a 3rd jab.. Wlad feinted and slipped a right hand---smooth as silk---under his guard.. Klitschko is damned smart. He had the rook looking for the jab and ripped the right. That would have won Wladimir the fight against Lewis, or any other Heavyweight but Joshua.

Holmes was able to recover because his opponent was such a shiitbag... AJ was able to recover because he's a brilliant innovator and ring magician.

[BoxBuzz]

So....instead of "out of the blue" it came from "over the rainbow" of education, skill, planning, coordination, ring general-ship, maturity and savvy.


Not to worry, when you need blabber, I'll provide you with just the cover you need.

Anyway.....in the old days, they would just call it "youth vs experience" and leave it at that......

[Kalan]

BuzzBox you're a true partisan... If you can't see the difference between Rahman's loaded right hander "out of the blue" style punch -- which flattened Len Lewis.. and Wladimir Klitschko's sophisticated deception in setting a brilliant trap -- to where he was able to floor Anthony Joshua -- you're beyond help.

[BoxBuzz]

Is Vlad's shot kinda sorta along the same lines as Foreman's shot at Moorer? Cuz I think I've heard this story before. Only in Foreman's case it won the day.


Just wondering if you think the parallel on these is legit.

[Kalan]

Foreman indeed had a lot more sophistication when he was 45 than when he was 25... He lulled Moorer to sleep and got him with a short, smooth, effortless one.

Not loaded... Not out of the blue... Not without thought and deception... but it was the LAST KO or KD punch he ever threw... coming at a good time.

[BoxBuzz]

Well Foreman was focused, and knew if Destiny was going to knock, he was going to have to deliver.

Probably spelled the end for any real fire in his belly.

[BoxBuzz]

Oh....and if you ask either Moorer or Josh, where those shots came from.....my guess is that their going to describe to you or I, something that sounds a lot like the realm where the blues dwell.

[Kalan]

It doesn't matter that he lost to Fury.. Everybody agreed he looked terrible in that fight and didn't let his hands go.. In 20 yrs you're gonna have bad nights.

The almost 2 years rest did Wladimir a lot of good. He came back rejuvenated against Joshua... Everybody agrees he fought brilliantly and his offense was finely tuned... Probably the best effort of his career, but to no avail... AJ did what the 6'9" X 250 Fury couldn't do -- blast Wladimir to the canvas 3 times...entertain everybody watching very much ... and get Klitschko out of here... Fury talked trash about doing those spectacular things but couldn't.