A prime Riddick Bowe against a prime Muhammad Ali.
What advantages would Riddick have over Muhammad?
What advantages would Ali have over Bowe?
What do you see happening in this fight?
Who would win? Why?
Please explain.
Riddick Bowe?
Re: Riddick Bowe?
It would be a little like Ali versus Chuck Wepner...a 15 round beating... Bowe was extremely hittable and even inept Golota beat the crap out of him.
Not that Bowe was as bad as Wepner -- and he was a bigger man with a much better offense and better puncher.. But man he got hit with everything.
Not that Bowe was as bad as Wepner -- and he was a bigger man with a much better offense and better puncher.. But man he got hit with everything.
Re: Riddick Bowe?
I don't completely disagree here, but I think Ali better drop in fully prepared.
Your underestimation of Bowe is a genuine mystery....but to some my overestimation of him probably presents about the same questions.
I just don't see how you miss seeing his skills. And why (at their mutual peak) Bowe should be the odds on favorite to beat Lewis.
You don't have to go over it again, you've made yourself clear you favor Lennox in that fight. Just don't get how you seem to reasonably assess Lewis, and (in my opinion) fail to recognize Bowe's skills. And as you know, I recognize Bowe went out of his prime as fast as major blowout on the interstate. So it may well have been over for him by the time he fought Golata. Both mentally and physically. Lewis had a much stronger mind and hung in there for quite a while, operating in top form. ... But Bowe at his best?....beat the bejabbers out of Holyfield.....something Lewis never managed to do. Though he walked away 1-0-1 in that series. Lewis and Holy never really "settled" who the better man was.......Bowe easily came out on top in their respective trilogy.
Your underestimation of Bowe is a genuine mystery....but to some my overestimation of him probably presents about the same questions.
I just don't see how you miss seeing his skills. And why (at their mutual peak) Bowe should be the odds on favorite to beat Lewis.
You don't have to go over it again, you've made yourself clear you favor Lennox in that fight. Just don't get how you seem to reasonably assess Lewis, and (in my opinion) fail to recognize Bowe's skills. And as you know, I recognize Bowe went out of his prime as fast as major blowout on the interstate. So it may well have been over for him by the time he fought Golata. Both mentally and physically. Lewis had a much stronger mind and hung in there for quite a while, operating in top form. ... But Bowe at his best?....beat the bejabbers out of Holyfield.....something Lewis never managed to do. Though he walked away 1-0-1 in that series. Lewis and Holy never really "settled" who the better man was.......Bowe easily came out on top in their respective trilogy.
Re: Riddick Bowe?
Because Bowe didn't HAVE ANY skills... He had gaping holes in his defense which is apparent to anyone who can see -- and you can't.BoxBuzz wrote:Your underestimation of Bowe is a genuine mystery ... I just don't see how you miss seeing his skills. And why (at their mutual peak) Bowe should be the odds on favorite to beat Lewis ... Lewis had a much stronger mind and hung in there for quite a while, operating in top form ... But Bowe at his best?....beat the bejabbers out of Holyfield.....something Lewis never managed to do. Though he walked away 1-0-1 in that series. Lewis and Holy never really "settled" who the better man was.......Bowe easily came out on top in their respective trilogy.
Lewis would murder Bowe as quickly as he did Golota... They were both defenseless... Bowe just never fought any punchers and Golota did.
Holyfield beat Bowe when he was right... His losses to Bowe have no more validity than his loss to Moorer... Bad heart problems destroyed his effort.
Lewis beat Holyfield every round in their "draw." He beat him almost as bad in their rematch.. Evander was fine physically for those fights.. In sharp contrast Holyfield hit Bowe with the kitchen sink, but couldn't generate any power.. I'm sure you read all about Holy's heart problems -- which were on again, off again.
Re: Riddick Bowe?
Bowe would certainly have struggled to pin Ali down.
But inept, the level of Chuck Werner?
Bowe was an outstanding inside fighter. His hooks and uppercuts were textbook.
I always felt Evander Holyfield played right into Bowe's hands in their first fight, that he somewhat made Riddick Bowe. The smaller man doing absolutely everything the bigger man wanted him to. But, to their credit, they put on some of the best infighting in heavyweight history. And Evander did one thing right, pushing Bowe back, taking a little of his power away...
Fighting in and out, using combinations, is the way. Like Holyfield did in fight two. One thing, when Evander fought correct strategy, he was able to use speed, get close, get out...then later in the fight back Bowe up. Ali didn't have Evander's core strength, and I doubt he could push a man of Bowe's physical attributes back. Ali would have to use huge movement, which takes energy. OK for the '60s Ali, but what about the '70s Ali? He'd have to take lots of breathers and this would give Bowe opportunities to do some good work, enough to lose competitively.
But Bowe is a lot better than Wepner. More comparable, I'd say he's considerably better than the Cooney that Larry Holmes faced, and Holmes had to grind this one out in an exciting win.
But inept, the level of Chuck Werner?
Bowe was an outstanding inside fighter. His hooks and uppercuts were textbook.
I always felt Evander Holyfield played right into Bowe's hands in their first fight, that he somewhat made Riddick Bowe. The smaller man doing absolutely everything the bigger man wanted him to. But, to their credit, they put on some of the best infighting in heavyweight history. And Evander did one thing right, pushing Bowe back, taking a little of his power away...
Fighting in and out, using combinations, is the way. Like Holyfield did in fight two. One thing, when Evander fought correct strategy, he was able to use speed, get close, get out...then later in the fight back Bowe up. Ali didn't have Evander's core strength, and I doubt he could push a man of Bowe's physical attributes back. Ali would have to use huge movement, which takes energy. OK for the '60s Ali, but what about the '70s Ali? He'd have to take lots of breathers and this would give Bowe opportunities to do some good work, enough to lose competitively.
But Bowe is a lot better than Wepner. More comparable, I'd say he's considerably better than the Cooney that Larry Holmes faced, and Holmes had to grind this one out in an exciting win.
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Ambling Alp II
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Re: Riddick Bowe?
That was a good point about Bowe on the inside. He was great at fighting on the inside; which most big aren't good at. Obviously he fought a great fight in the first Holyfield fight. He also looked great in the rematch. That was a great fight as well and the decision could have gone his way or been a draw. It was weird, he looked good in several other fights in which the other guy was supposed to give him a tougher fight. Then that guy's career seemed to slide after fighting Bowe.
Another to remember is that he was not that highly thought of when he entered the pro ranks. doubt anyone thought in 12988 that he would fighting at that level in a few years.
Another to remember is that he was not that highly thought of when he entered the pro ranks. doubt anyone thought in 12988 that he would fighting at that level in a few years.
Re: Riddick Bowe?
Really? Whatever limitations you discovered he had from watching his career back on youtube, it was apparent to those of us who were around then from early in his career that he at least had skills.Kalan wrote:Because Bowe didn't HAVE ANY skills... He had gaping holes in his defense which is apparent to anyone who can see -- and you can't.BoxBuzz wrote:Your underestimation of Bowe is a genuine mystery ... I just don't see how you miss seeing his skills. And why (at their mutual peak) Bowe should be the odds on favorite to beat Lewis ... Lewis had a much stronger mind and hung in there for quite a while, operating in top form ... But Bowe at his best?....beat the bejabbers out of Holyfield.....something Lewis never managed to do. Though he walked away 1-0-1 in that series. Lewis and Holy never really "settled" who the better man was.......Bowe easily came out on top in their respective trilogy.
Lewis would murder Bowe as quickly as he did Golota... They were both defenseless... Bowe just never fought any punchers and Golota did.
Holyfield beat Bowe when he was right... His losses to Bowe have no more validity than his loss to Moorer... Bad heart problems destroyed his effort.
Lewis beat Holyfield every round in their "draw." He beat him almost as bad in their rematch.. Evander was fine physically for those fights.. In sharp contrast Holyfield hit Bowe with the kitchen sink, but couldn't generate any power.. I'm sure you read all about Holy's heart problems -- which were on again, off again.
Re: Riddick Bowe?
Bowe had very good size and strength, and some athletic talent... But smarts??? Skills??? A defense??? Not quite.
I compare Bowe to Jess Willard. Neither was very bright. Bowe was almost as easy to hit as Willard, he just didn't have as big or hard a noggin so it softened up on him quicker. They both took tremendous punishment and largely ignored the incoming looking to get in their shot. They both had real good reach, but you could get an easy read on their jabs and straight rights. Neither was interested in boxing science. Bowe could punch faster than Willard, but that's natural hand speed not skill. Their footwork was PPLLLAAAAAABBBBTT!! Quick, skilled jabs, right hands, and left hooks nailed the heck out of both of them. What they did was jab, jab, jab, and trade and tried to beat smaller or weaker guys down.
Bowe threw his Title Belt in the trash can because he knew his mandatory challenger, Lennox Lewis, was bigger, stronger, faster, smarter, had a better reach, boxed better, and punched harder. It would have been another Lewis-Ruddock fight. Razor was another guy Bowe turned down. Golota was even more thick headed and inept than Bowe -- so he accepted a fight with him. It was a good matchup if it weren't for the low blows.
Can you picture Golota trying to hit Lewis or Tyson with low blows? ... I don't think so...not if he didn't want his nose bitten off.
I compare Bowe to Jess Willard. Neither was very bright. Bowe was almost as easy to hit as Willard, he just didn't have as big or hard a noggin so it softened up on him quicker. They both took tremendous punishment and largely ignored the incoming looking to get in their shot. They both had real good reach, but you could get an easy read on their jabs and straight rights. Neither was interested in boxing science. Bowe could punch faster than Willard, but that's natural hand speed not skill. Their footwork was PPLLLAAAAAABBBBTT!! Quick, skilled jabs, right hands, and left hooks nailed the heck out of both of them. What they did was jab, jab, jab, and trade and tried to beat smaller or weaker guys down.
Bowe threw his Title Belt in the trash can because he knew his mandatory challenger, Lennox Lewis, was bigger, stronger, faster, smarter, had a better reach, boxed better, and punched harder. It would have been another Lewis-Ruddock fight. Razor was another guy Bowe turned down. Golota was even more thick headed and inept than Bowe -- so he accepted a fight with him. It was a good matchup if it weren't for the low blows.
Can you picture Golota trying to hit Lewis or Tyson with low blows? ... I don't think so...not if he didn't want his nose bitten off.