ward-kova II, why not overturned?

[man]

..this is NOT the question of who was winning and who was losing the rematch..and it's not the question of effective body punches, it's about the stoppage and its legitimacy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLxlV5C4KHY

i find both clips convincing. the first
makes a good case for kovalev being
easily hurt by legit body shots, the
second for the last one being too low.

i guess this is just a case of controversy,
yet no real bad intention behind it, neither
from the sanctioning bodies, nor from
andre ward. if his body shots were legit
and had a such an effect, of course he would
continue throwing and the last being really
too low might actually be result of kovalev
bending so far forward.

thnx guys, for posting the two clips.

[Blodhemn]

Will let you have the grab thing but gotta do what yer gotta do

Lol ok.

If you think Ward is like Hatton then you must be fuckin blind.

If you can't put two and two together then you must be f'n retarded.

[Iownthisforum]

..this is NOT the question of who was winning and who was losing the rematch..and it's not the question of effective body punches, it's about the stoppage and its legitimacy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLxlV5C4KHY

i find both clips convincing. the first
makes a good case for kovalev being
easily hurt by legit body shots, the
second for the last one being too low.

i guess this is just a case of controversy,
yet no real bad intention behind it, neither
from the sanctioning bodies, nor from
andre ward. if his body shots were legit
and had a such an effect, of course he would
continue throwing and the last being really
too low might actually be result of kovalev
bending so far forward.

thnx guys, for posting the two clips.

Looks like an intentional foul to me. Judging by the number of low blows he threw prior to the stoppage, my belief is that he was swinging low for awhile intentionally and was getting away with it, so he just kept swinging low. Kov isn’t anywhere close to being in position to be getting hit with a left hook to the body. I think it’s pretty clear, Ward knows how to judge distance very well, he threw that last punch exactly where he wanted it to land. Ref was sleeping at the wheel.

Anything below the belt is a low blow, some of those “borderline shots” as described in fan boy videos were low, and great care has been taken to show the really low punches using the camera furthest away from the action.

Regardless the fight shouldn’t have been stopped. Kov should have gotten up to 5 minutes to recover from the foul.

[man]

Regardless the fight shouldn’t have been stopped. Kov should have gotten up to 5 minutes to recover from the foul.

that's how i see it. i still think the
sanctioning bodies should have
ordered a rematch, but it is not a
blatant sign of corruption that they
didn't.

in any case i think ward has kova's
number. in the end it is the boxer
beating the puncher. ward could
adapt and found a way which kova
could not neutralise. JDD said he
was a ware of this weakness in his
fighter. ward found out and that
was that.

in a way i am happy there is no
third, cause it would be one sided
for ward.

[Enlightened-One]

Regardless the fight shouldn’t have been stopped. Kov should have gotten up to 5 minutes to recover from the foul.

that's how i see it. i still think the
sanctioning bodies should have
ordered a rematch, but it is not a
blatant sign of corruption that they
didn't.

in any case i think ward has kova's
number. in the end it is the boxer
beating the puncher. ward could
adapt and found a way which kova
could not neutralise. JDD said he
was a ware of this weakness in his
fighter. ward found out and that
was that.

in a way i am happy there is no
third, cause it would be one sided
for ward.

Andre Ward and (to a certain extent) John David Jackson both exposed Sergey Kovalev's stylistic and fitness flaws, (which all fighters inevitably have), coupled with the fact that Krusher now appears to be "only human".

So with that in mind, do you think that Kovalev's future opponents will look to engage on the inside, attacking the body, hoping that they can make it to the later rounds, so they can exploit the Russian at his weakest?

I can't help thinking that Kovalev's aura of invincibility has been permanently evaporated and it's far too late in his career for him to address his stylistic flaws, considering that he likes to have complete control of his training camps, which means that he doesn't always listen to what his trainers tell him. He's supposed to be indisciplined at training also.

Kovalev might be good enough to recapture one of his old world title belts and score one or two decent victories, but the top 175lb-ers will be actively seeking an opportunity to face him and most of them will believe that he is someone that is ready for the taking.

I don't think that Kovalev's career will last much longer.

[Kalan]

Terrible video. First off, anything below the belt is an illegal punch, doesn't have to hit him square on the sack. Second off, the camera angles are horrible and the ref is almost always in the way when the worst punches are shown (as was the case in the majority of the replays HBO decided to show, even though they have cameras all around the ring). Third this dude says he hit him "on the white" (referring to the belt) at one point, when you can clearly see it was below the belt on one punch.

And finally, he knocked him out with a double left hook to the sack. Propaganda. What the scorecards were to me is irrelevant at the time of the stoppage. He earned a knockout from an illegal punch, and judging by the number of low blows he threw in the fight, should have been ruled a no contest. Total disgrace.

Lets get this STRAIGHT!!! There is no "BELT" on boxing trunks... Boxing trunks are kept up by elastic waistbands.. They could be 2 inches wide or 8 inches wide, but getting hit on the waistband is illegal if the top of the waistband is properly aligned with the navel. The navel---or "belly button" for those unfamiliar with English---is the demarcation line for low blows.. ANY punch where a significant portion of the impact zone of the blow is on or below the navel is low.. Just because your punch brushes the top of the trunks doesn't make it low. But if you can feel the punch impact on your cup -- the top of which is right behind the top of your waistband -- then it's a low blow.. Boxers SHOULD signal the referee it was low -- whether it hurts or not -- because the judges might score it.. The referee needs to STOP the fight and issue a warning for low blows.. The reason for that is a judge might be BEHIND the boxer who got hit low and mistakenly score the punch -- giving a close round to the fouler.

A punch right on the navel is low but may not get a formal warning depending on the referee.. Robert Byrd watched Mayweather hit McGregor with deliberate low blows in the 4th and said nothing.. That was a mismatch of course, so it didn't affect the outcome of the fight.. But any referee who favors one of the combatants by allowing him to commit numerous fouls such as low blows -- is a fukking criminal bastard.

[Iownthisforum]

Nobody says “below the waistband.” I think you are being a little too literal. Kov’s “belt” didn’t look high to me, but it’s the refs job to determine if a fighter’s “belt” is high. It’s not unusual for a ref to point out that a fighter’s “belt” is a little high before the fight.

Pretty clear he scored a “knockout” using an illegal punch. Whatever any of us think would happen in the rematch or what would have happened if the fight continued is just speculation.

[Enlightened-One]

The proverbial "belt" is wherever the ref deems it to be.

Tony Weeks clearly explained (whilst delivering his final instructions) that punches on Kovalev's elastic waistband of his shorts were perfectly legal, since he was wearing them very high.

He also explained that punches below this point were unacceptable.

Most of Ward's shots landed on Kovalev's waistband, barring perhaps the one of the final blows that were clearly low, but was delivered in a manner where the ref's vision may have been obstructed.

[ldlamb]

Kovalev got hit in the stomach and couldn't handle it.

[SFW]

You America haters squeal juuuuust enough to get Oprah's attention, I think we got something here. Let's run with it. Call it " Mad as a Hatter: The True Story of the Indestructible Russian and his Kryptonian Relationship with Body Punches". Or as Sergey likes to call it, "It's Everybody Else's Fault!!!"

Those low blows are the gift that keeps on giving, it was a beautiful fornicate YOU to that asshole Sergey, and that rat Duva. Warms my heart. I feel like Bad Santa after he beat the shit out of some kids, every time I see the replay.

[boxing_rocks]

Yes, it was Kovalev's fault that he was covering his body leaving poor Ward no choice but to hit him low.

[SFW]

Yes, it was Kovalev's fault that he was covering his body leaving poor Ward no choice but to hit him low.

No no no, you didn't get the memo I take it.. they were all low, every punch Ward has ever thrown was illegal. He's being brought up on charges as we speak. Violation of the Princess Code section 4.11... justice will be served, and Kovalev will never have to sleep in fear of the bad man again.

[boxing_rocks]

Yes, it was Kovalev's fault that he was covering his body leaving poor Ward no choice but to hit him low.

No no no, you didn't get the memo I take it.. they were all low, every punch Ward has ever thrown was illegal. He's being brought up on charges as we speak. Violation of the Princess Code section 4.11... justice will be served, and Kovalev will never have to sleep in fear of the bad man again.

On the contrary, Ward is completely innocent. His exciting and clean style has never been appreciated by white or black fans because of his mixed race.

[Iownthisforum]

The proverbial "belt" is wherever the ref deems it to be.

Tony Weeks clearly explained (whilst delivering his final instructions) that punches on Kovalev's elastic waistband of his shorts were perfectly legal, since he was wearing them very high.

He also explained that punches below this point were unacceptable.

Most of Ward's shots landed on Kovalev's waistband, barring perhaps the one of the final blows that were clearly low, but was delivered in a manner where the ref's vision may have been obstructed.

There were an excessive number of punches that were clearly below the waistband and borderline. The last left hook clearly was low, and Ward was not standing at a distance where landing a left hook to the body was possible. He threw a low blow. I’m not sure I get your argument about the ref “deeming what’s low.” Of course refs have to make judgement calls. The ref also deems when one is too hurt to continue and can stop the fight, but that doesn’t mean refs can’t be criticized for making a premature stoppage or for letting a fight go on too long. With great power comes great responsibility except in boxing of course.

I wanted Ward to win, but I find it very odd to see people deny what is clearly captured on video tape. Rewind play again, it’s not really open to interpretation. Fight should be a no contest based on what happened, fanboy emotions and the HBO broadcast team's friendship with Ward, is not a justification for what happened. Lots of tribal people.

[Ilya Muromets]

why was this fight not over turned and a
rematch ordered since it was a TKO and
the final punch was a low blow?

i am not cynical about this, but shouldn't
sanctioning bodies be doing exactly this
kind of thing, especially if even the ref
concedes he got it wrong?

btw i think ward adapted very well in the
fight and would have won anyways. still ...

Why? Because boxing is the crookedest sport in the world and the fight was in the crookedest city in the world, with the usual in house ref and judges, and the reviewers were the crookedest in the world, the Nevada Athletic Commission aka The Mafia.

[SFW]

Yes, it was Kovalev's fault that he was covering his body leaving poor Ward no choice but to hit him low.

No no no, you didn't get the memo I take it.. they were all low, every punch Ward has ever thrown was illegal. He's being brought up on charges as we speak. Violation of the Princess Code section 4.11... justice will be served, and Kovalev will never have to sleep in fear of the bad man again.

On the contrary, Ward is completely innocent. His exciting and clean style has never been appreciated by white or black fans because of his mixed race.

I don't think I'll miss him as much as you will, but he did give us some memorable butts cough excuse me bouts.

[Thomastearns]

why was this fight not over turned and a
rematch ordered since it was a TKO and
the final punch was a low blow?

i am not cynical about this, but shouldn't
sanctioning bodies be doing exactly this
kind of thing, especially if even the ref
concedes he got it wrong?

btw i think ward adapted very well in the
fight and would have won anyways. still ...

Why? Because boxing is the crookedest sport in the world and the fight was in the crookedest city in the world, with the usual in house ref and judges, and the reviewers were the crookedest in the world, the Nevada Athletic Commission aka The Mafia.

Been going on for decades. Smelly decision. Big outrage, followed by a small token gesture, nothing gets changed. Cartel stays in business, noise eventually dies down, 'mistake' happens again. And again. And again etc etc

EVEN WHEN IT WAS PREDICTED MONTHS BEFOREHAND.

Perhaps we're looking at this the wrong way. Perhaps every boxer should begin by assessing his boxing politics strategy before even setting a foot in the gym. No wonder certain fighters seem to be holding their belts to ransom whilst some give them away. If this is boxing, why give anything away? Unless its worthless, like some of these belts. Money first in this life. Glory seems to be fading as fast as the belief in the afterlife.

[greg]

..I think we have to bear in mind that one of the boxers here has a RECORD of fighting dirty. No way I'm prepared to accept that the so called "borderline" blows were unintentional. Now, irrespective of whether they were or weren't and irrespective of how they affected Kova's performance, this particular argument boils down to this last LOW blow.

The question is what must have been done under the circumstances...I believe the ref should have stopped the fight and give the boxer (..and to hell with Kova, it could have been anyone else) time to recover...What actually happened was the travesty of justice which certainly came as no surprise considering the venue etc..

[boxing_rocks]

..I think we have to bear in mind that one of the boxers here has a RECORD of fighting dirty. No way I'm prepared to accept that the so called "borderline" blows were unintentional. Now, irrespective of whether they were or weren't and irrespective of how they affected Kova's performance, this particular argument boils down to this last LOW blow.

The question is what must have been done under the circumstances...I believe the ref should have stopped the fight and give the boxer (..and to hell with Kova, it could have been anyone else) time to recover...What actually happened was the travesty of justice which certainly came as no surprise considering the venue etc..

Good post stating what any objective fan would agree with.

[Kilsby]

Rather than watching the big tvs versions of this event has anyone ever took time to watch the version taken by a fan inside the arena on youtube?

Headed "Ward vs Kovalev 2 full fight from inside the arena"

The low blow doesn't finish Kov, its a shot to the right of his body about 30 seconds before that he could not shake off. If you watch the end of the fight the guy keeps his camera on Kov after Ward stops him with the "low blow" Kov gets up and walks across the ring holding the right side of his stomach (not his balls!) this is the shot he didn't recover from

[Kilsby]

^^^
Take the time to watch it and score it without the commentary

[boxing_rocks]

The fight still ended with at least two obvious low blows. Any ref following rules had to give Kovalev time to recover after that and possibly take a point from Ward, as that was a repeated offence. Ward would most likely still win, as Kovalev already gassed, but the stoppage and not punishing low blows was outrageous.

[Badhusker]

Let someone hit you in the balls and see if you can suck it up and take it like a man.

Just curious, what did you think of the Khan/Judah fight ending?

Zab Judah keeps his nuts on his belt-line?

Kovalev/Ward was a clear, clear low-blow that didn't even hit the belt-line.

Bullshit. Look at it again. Khan held Judah's head down with his forearm, and delivered the blow, which was no higher than Kovalev's. I'm over it, and now you and others need to get over Kovalev's loss.

[Ilya Muromets]

why was this fight not over turned and a
rematch ordered since it was a TKO and
the final punch was a low blow?

i am not cynical about this, but shouldn't
sanctioning bodies be doing exactly this
kind of thing, especially if even the ref
concedes he got it wrong?

btw i think ward adapted very well in the
fight and would have won anyways. still ...

Why? Because boxing is the crookedest sport in the world and the fight was in the crookedest city in the world, with the usual in house ref and judges, and the reviewers were the crookedest in the world, the Nevada Athletic Commission aka The Mafia.

Been going on for decades. Smelly decision. Big outrage, followed by a small token gesture, nothing gets changed. Cartel stays in business, noise eventually dies down, 'mistake' happens again. And again. And again etc etc

EVEN WHEN IT WAS PREDICTED MONTHS BEFOREHAND.

Perhaps we're looking at this the wrong way. Perhaps every boxer should begin by assessing his boxing politics strategy before even setting a foot in the gym. No wonder certain fighters seem to be holding their belts to ransom whilst some give them away. If this is boxing, why give anything away? Unless its worthless, like some of these belts. Money first in this life. Glory seems to be fading as fast as the belief in the afterlife.

No reason for a non mob-connected fighter to fight in Organized Crime's own home town, Las Vegas, except they pay them a lot of money. They are not even shy about advertising Las Vegas as filthy and corrupt, calling it Sin City. Same goes for submitting to Las Vegas Doc Margaret Goodman and her traveling drug detection racket.