Marvin Hagler, a different?

[NYDominican]

Throughout Marvin Hagler's professional boxing career, he dominated over his opponents? However? ---------------

1. Had Marvin fought professionally anywhere's from 1900 till late 1972, do you think that Hagler would have been as dominant? If not, which particular decade from 1900 till late 1972 do you think that Marvin would not have been as dominant?

Please explain.




2. Had Hagler fought professionally anywhere's from mid 1987 till now, do you think that Marvin would have been as dominant? If not, which particular decade from mid 1987 till now do you think that Marvin would not have been as dominant?


Please explain.

[Kalan]

Just go straight through Middleweight History to see how Hagler would do -- rather than thumb through select eras that cut out the modern Middleweight game -- as if modern Boxing History is disassociated from the storied history of the sport... History is History if it happened yesterday or 100 years ago.

Hagler hit a perfect seam in Middleweight History where he could accumulate 12 Title Defenses without fighting any extremely good natural Middleweights... If he continued on until he was 35 or 36 he would have run into Mike McCallum.. Michael Nunn.. James Toney.. Reggie Johnson and other guys who Ray Leonard obviously wanted no part of.. Those great Middleweights would beat Hagler.. Leonard only fought Duran and Hearns at 160 after beating Hagler for the title, which he then abandoned.. After fighting Duran and Hearns in phony 168-pound title defenses fought at 160, SRL ducked out of the Middleweight division which was loaded with talent -- and fled to 154 to fight Terry Norris.

The period just before Hagler and after Monzon was very weak... Corro and Valdez were running out of steam at the same time and Hagler beats them... Hagler was robbed in a draw with Antuofermo the way Golovkin was robbed the other week, or Marv would have been Middleweight Champion earlier.

The Robinson era was weak... Hagler would easily handle LaMotta, Turpin, Fullmer, Basilio, Pender and Ralph Jones who all beat Robinson. The legendary Robinson would not be a problem. Hagler would rake Robinson to the body like Ralph Jones beat the crap out of SRR and chased him all over the ring. The Ralph Jones-Ray Robinson Fight is on YouTube as are many of Robinson's other Middleweight Fights. SRR did his best work at 147 and had tougher sledding at 160.

I'm not sure how Hagler would fare with Greb, Ketchel, Flowers, and some of the legendary fighters I'm not familiar with.. Walker would beat him bad.. Hagler would beat Tiger, but not Griffith who would outbox him like Leonard did.. Prime Benvenuti would probably outwork him and Monzon would beat his ass something fierce.. Hagler would beat Jermain Taylor. He would beat De La Hoya and possibly Trinidad who were both hittable.. I don't see Hagler out-boxing Jones, Hopkins, Pavlik, Martinez, Cotto, or Canelo.. Golovkin and Jacobs are too big and strong for him and box too well.

[elmersalsa]

Just go straight through Middleweight History to see how Hagler would do -- rather than thumb through select eras that cut out the modern Middleweight game -- as if modern Boxing History is disassociated from the storied history of the sport... History is History if it happened yesterday or 100 years ago.

Hagler hit a perfect seam in Middleweight History where he could accumulate 12 Title Defenses without fighting any extremely good natural Middleweights... If he continued on until he was 35 or 36 he would have run into Mike McCallum.. Michael Nunn.. James Toney.. Reggie Johnson and other guys who Ray Leonard obviously wanted no part of.. Those great Middleweights would beat Hagler.. Leonard only fought Duran and Hearns at 160 after beating Hagler for the title, which he then abandoned.. After fighting Duran and Hearns in phony 168-pound title defenses fought at 160, SRL ducked out of the Middleweight division which was loaded with talent -- and fled to 154 to fight Terry Norris.

The period just before Hagler and after Monzon was very weak... Corro and Valdez were running out of steam at the same time and Hagler beats them... Hagler was robbed in a draw with Antuofermo the way Golovkin was robbed the other week, or Marv would have been Middleweight Champion earlier.

The Robinson era was weak... Hagler would easily handle LaMotta, Turpin, Fullmer, Basilio, Pender and Ralph Jones who all beat Robinson. The legendary Robinson would not be a problem. Hagler would rake Robinson to the body like Ralph Jones beat the crap out of SRR and chased him all over the ring. The Ralph Jones-Ray Robinson Fight is on YouTube as are many of Robinson's other Middleweight Fights. SRR did his best work at 147 and had tougher sledding at 160.

I'm not sure how Hagler would fare with Greb, Ketchel, Flowers, and some of the legendary fighters I'm not familiar with.. Walker would beat him bad.. Hagler would beat Tiger, but not Griffith who would outbox him like Leonard did.. Prime Benvenuti would probably outwork him and Monzon would beat his ass something fierce.. Hagler would beat Jermain Taylor. He would beat De La Hoya and possibly Trinidad who were both hittable.. I don't see Hagler out-boxing Jones, Hopkins, Pavlik, Martinez, Cotto, or Canelo.. Golovkin and Jacobs are too big and strong for him and box too well.

Like I said before: "Sometimes you know what are you talking about and sometimes you don't"

In this instance, you are DEAD WRONG in everything you have said above, Kalan!

[Flump]

Just go straight through Middleweight History to see how Hagler would do -- rather than thumb through select eras that cut out the modern Middleweight game -- as if modern Boxing History is disassociated from the storied history of the sport... History is History if it happened yesterday or 100 years ago.

Hagler hit a perfect seam in Middleweight History where he could accumulate 12 Title Defenses without fighting any extremely good natural Middleweights... If he continued on until he was 35 or 36 he would have run into Mike McCallum.. Michael Nunn.. James Toney.. Reggie Johnson and other guys who Ray Leonard obviously wanted no part of.. Those great Middleweights would beat Hagler.. Leonard only fought Duran and Hearns at 160 after beating Hagler for the title, which he then abandoned.. After fighting Duran and Hearns in phony 168-pound title defenses fought at 160, SRL ducked out of the Middleweight division which was loaded with talent -- and fled to 154 to fight Terry Norris.

The period just before Hagler and after Monzon was very weak... Corro and Valdez were running out of steam at the same time and Hagler beats them... Hagler was robbed in a draw with Antuofermo the way Golovkin was robbed the other week, or Marv would have been Middleweight Champion earlier.

The Robinson era was weak... Hagler would easily handle LaMotta, Turpin, Fullmer, Basilio, Pender and Ralph Jones who all beat Robinson. The legendary Robinson would not be a problem. Hagler would rake Robinson to the body like Ralph Jones beat the crap out of SRR and chased him all over the ring. The Ralph Jones-Ray Robinson Fight is on YouTube as are many of Robinson's other Middleweight Fights. SRR did his best work at 147 and had tougher sledding at 160.

I'm not sure how Hagler would fare with Greb, Ketchel, Flowers, and some of the legendary fighters I'm not familiar with.. Walker would beat him bad.. Hagler would beat Tiger, but not Griffith who would outbox him like Leonard did.. Prime Benvenuti would probably outwork him and Monzon would beat his ass something fierce.. Hagler would beat Jermain Taylor. He would beat De La Hoya and possibly Trinidad who were both hittable.. I don't see Hagler out-boxing Jones, Hopkins, Pavlik, Martinez, Cotto, or Canelo.. Golovkin and Jacobs are too big and strong for him and box too well.

Like I said before: "Sometimes you know what are you talking about and sometimes you don't"

In this instance, you are DEAD WRONG in everything you have said above, Kalan!

Considering he's only been watching boxing for 10 years at the most his ability to use boxrec records and wikepedia and absorb the information is pretty impressive, whatever identity issues he may or may not have.

[Kalan]

Just go straight through Middleweight History to see how Hagler would do -- rather than thumb through select eras that cut out the modern Middleweight game -- as if modern Boxing History is disassociated from the storied history of the sport... History is History if it happened yesterday or 100 years ago.

Hagler hit a perfect seam in Middleweight History where he could accumulate 12 Title Defenses without fighting any extremely good natural Middleweights... If he continued on until he was 35 or 36 he would have run into Mike McCallum.. Michael Nunn.. James Toney.. Reggie Johnson and other guys who Ray Leonard obviously wanted no part of.. Those great Middleweights would beat Hagler.. Leonard only fought Duran and Hearns at 160 after beating Hagler for the title, which he then abandoned.. After fighting Duran and Hearns in phony 168-pound title defenses fought at 160, SRL ducked out of the Middleweight division which was loaded with talent -- and fled to 154 to fight Terry Norris.

The period just before Hagler and after Monzon was very weak... Corro and Valdez were running out of steam at the same time and Hagler beats them... Hagler was robbed in a draw with Antuofermo the way Golovkin was robbed the other week, or Marv would have been Middleweight Champion earlier.

The Robinson era was weak... Hagler would easily handle LaMotta, Turpin, Fullmer, Basilio, Pender and Ralph Jones who all beat Robinson. The legendary Robinson would not be a problem. Hagler would rake Robinson to the body like Ralph Jones beat the crap out of SRR and chased him all over the ring. The Ralph Jones-Ray Robinson Fight is on YouTube as are many of Robinson's other Middleweight Fights. SRR did his best work at 147 and had tougher sledding at 160.

I'm not sure how Hagler would fare with Greb, Ketchel, Flowers, and some of the legendary fighters I'm not familiar with.. Walker would beat him bad.. Hagler would beat Tiger, but not Griffith who would outbox him like Leonard did.. Prime Benvenuti would probably outwork him and Monzon would beat his ass something fierce.. Hagler would beat Jermain Taylor. He would beat De La Hoya and possibly Trinidad who were both hittable.. I don't see Hagler out-boxing Jones, Hopkins, Pavlik, Martinez, Cotto, or Canelo.. Golovkin and Jacobs are too big and strong for him and box too well.

Like I said before: "Sometimes you know what are you talking about and sometimes you don't"

In this instance, you are DEAD WRONG in everything you have said above, Kalan!

If I'm dead wrong about everything, then Taylor, De La Hoya, Tiger, Pender, Basilio, Valdez, Corro, Ralph Jones etc. would all beat Hagler, even though he's an ATG Middleweight and they weren't.. It would help if you posted exactly where you feel I'm wrong because I pretty much went through the History of the division. It would be damned near impossible for me to be wrong about everything.

[BoxBuzz]

Now that's a fair statement. You are NOT wrong about everything.

I have specifically pointed out several occasions over the last year, where you were clearly onto something.

[Kalan]

I've got you pegged... That's for sure... How you doing Phineas T Bluster?

[cfang]

Hagler would pretty much dominate in any era. The other greats of course would give him trouble, most likely monzon and tbe greb. If Marvin was around pre Robinson era, he'd be avoided like the plague. Probably similar to Langford and there's no way he'd get a title shot. Put him in the 40s and 50s and there's some great fights for him but he'd be champ for a lot of that era. He may split decisions with Robinson or come out 2-1 in a trilogy. Ofc there monzon in the 70s and that too would be close. He'd beat all the middles post his era but if he was around he'd prob fight jones at super middle. That'd be a treat. Marvin for me is the 2nd/3rd greatest middle ever and could beat anyone.

[Kalan]

Monzon, Toney, Golovkin, Walker, Griffith, Benvenuti and Greb fought Middleweights of a very high caliber... Name the best natural Middleweight who fought Hagler??? I don't see him beating the above when he lost to a Welterweight who was coming off a 3-year-layoff.

[elmersalsa]

Just go straight through Middleweight History to see how Hagler would do -- rather than thumb through select eras that cut out the modern Middleweight game -- as if modern Boxing History is disassociated from the storied history of the sport... History is History if it happened yesterday or 100 years ago.

Hagler hit a perfect seam in Middleweight History where he could accumulate 12 Title Defenses without fighting any extremely good natural Middleweights... If he continued on until he was 35 or 36 he would have run into Mike McCallum.. Michael Nunn.. James Toney.. Reggie Johnson and other guys who Ray Leonard obviously wanted no part of.. Those great Middleweights would beat Hagler.. Leonard only fought Duran and Hearns at 160 after beating Hagler for the title, which he then abandoned.. After fighting Duran and Hearns in phony 168-pound title defenses fought at 160, SRL ducked out of the Middleweight division which was loaded with talent -- and fled to 154 to fight Terry Norris.

The period just before Hagler and after Monzon was very weak... Corro and Valdez were running out of steam at the same time and Hagler beats them... Hagler was robbed in a draw with Antuofermo the way Golovkin was robbed the other week, or Marv would have been Middleweight Champion earlier.

The Robinson era was weak... Hagler would easily handle LaMotta, Turpin, Fullmer, Basilio, Pender and Ralph Jones who all beat Robinson. The legendary Robinson would not be a problem. Hagler would rake Robinson to the body like Ralph Jones beat the crap out of SRR and chased him all over the ring. The Ralph Jones-Ray Robinson Fight is on YouTube as are many of Robinson's other Middleweight Fights. SRR did his best work at 147 and had tougher sledding at 160.

I'm not sure how Hagler would fare with Greb, Ketchel, Flowers, and some of the legendary fighters I'm not familiar with.. Walker would beat him bad.. Hagler would beat Tiger, but not Griffith who would outbox him like Leonard did.. Prime Benvenuti would probably outwork him and Monzon would beat his ass something fierce.. Hagler would beat Jermain Taylor. He would beat De La Hoya and possibly Trinidad who were both hittable.. I don't see Hagler out-boxing Jones, Hopkins, Pavlik, Martinez, Cotto, or Canelo.. Golovkin and Jacobs are too big and strong for him and box too well.

Like I said before: "Sometimes you know what are you talking about and sometimes you don't"

In this instance, you are DEAD WRONG in everything you have said above, Kalan!

If I'm dead wrong about everything, then Taylor, De La Hoya, Tiger, Pender, Basilio, Valdez, Corro, Ralph Jones etc. would all beat Hagler, even though he's an ATG Middleweight and they weren't.. It would help if you posted exactly where you feel I'm wrong because I pretty much went through the History of the division. It would be damned near impossible for me to be wrong about everything.

Things that you have said, not in that fashion or form, but something similar:

"The Sugar Ray Robinson middleweight era was weak"

"You don't see Marvelous outboxing Roy Jones, Jr, GGG, Canelo, Bernard Hopkins, Pabvlick, Sergio Martinez nor Miguel Cotto"

"Mike McCallum, Michael Nunn, James Toney and Reggie Johnson beat Marvelous"

[BoxBuzz]

I've got you pegged... That's for sure... How you doing Phineas T Bluster?

Perfectly sorted there, Commander McBragg

[Kalan]

"The Sugar Ray Robinson middleweight era was weak"

"You don't see Marvelous outboxing Roy Jones, Jr, GGG, Canelo, Bernard Hopkins, Pabvlick, Sergio Martinez nor Miguel Cotto"

"Mike McCallum, Michael Nunn, James Toney and Reggie Johnson beat Marvelous"

If Hagler, who struggled with Mugabi, Leonard, and even Duran, ever fought any Middleweight as skilled and slick as Toney, McCallum, Nunn, or Johnson, he'd be in for a damned good pounding... Name one natural Middleweight he ever fought who compares with them.

[BoxBuzz]

I'd bet on Toney to beat Marvin.....I think he has the keys.

[elmersalsa]

"The Sugar Ray Robinson middleweight era was weak"

"You don't see Marvelous outboxing Roy Jones, Jr, GGG, Canelo, Bernard Hopkins, Pabvlick, Sergio Martinez nor Miguel Cotto"

"Mike McCallum, Michael Nunn, James Toney and Reggie Johnson beat Marvelous"

If Hagler, who struggled with Mugabi, Leonard, and even Duran, ever fought any Middleweight as skilled and slick as Toney, McCallum, Nunn, or Johnson, he'd be in for a damned good pounding... Name one natural Middleweight he ever fought who compares with them.

Marvelous beat Willie Monroe, Bobby Watts, Sugar Ray Seals, Bennie Briscoe, Fulgencio Obelmejias, Juan Domingo Roldan, Mustapha Hamsho, Eugene "Cyclone" Hart, Vito Antuofermo and Marcos Geraldo were good middleweight boxers. They may not be James Toney or Michael Nunn's caliber, but they were good. I don't see no slouch boxers in that group.

Name me a top natural middleweight that Nunn or Toney have beaten that are in Marvelous' class?

[elmersalsa]

"The Sugar Ray Robinson middleweight era was weak"

"You don't see Marvelous outboxing Roy Jones, Jr, GGG, Canelo, Bernard Hopkins, Pabvlick, Sergio Martinez nor Miguel Cotto"

"Mike McCallum, Michael Nunn, James Toney and Reggie Johnson beat Marvelous"

If Hagler, who struggled with Mugabi, Leonard, and even Duran, ever fought any Middleweight as skilled and slick as Toney, McCallum, Nunn, or Johnson, he'd be in for a damned good pounding... Name one natural Middleweight he ever fought who compares with them.

Of those 4 you mentioned, named me a NATURAL MIDDLEWEIGHT that they have beaten that are in Marvelous' class?

[Seamus]

Hagler has the better stamina, footwork, and is too busy for Toney. It would probably be close till Toney begins running low on gas in the late rds.

[cfang]

Hagler has the better stamina, footwork, and is too busy for Toney. It would probably be close till Toney begins running low on gas in the late rds.

That's how I see it. Hagler such an amazing fighter with an incredibly strong resume. He was undisputed champion who cleaned up every contender and was unbeaten for 10 years! It's debatable that he ever really lost. A super fighter and comparing him to Some of those other guys like reggie Johnson is an insult.

I hate all this revisionist bull. So now srr wasn't as good as Ralph jones or hagler wasn't as good as some guys who won a portion of a title and made like a couple of defences? Hagler could and would beat pretty much any middle ever. He was tremendous.

[elmersalsa]

Marvin Hagler was Marvelous! Any other negative opinion about him is uncivilized!

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Can anyone imagine Dave tiberi beating the dogshit out of hagler? I mean for someone that lives for cherry picking performances, that's a pretty big matza ball to leave hanging kalan.

[Kalan]

Marv ... beat Willie Monroe, Bobby Watts, Sugar Ray Seals, Bennie Briscoe, Fulgencio Obelmejias, Juan Domingo Roldan, Mustapha Hamsho, Eugene "Cyclone" Hart, Vito Antuofermo and Marcos Geraldo were good middleweight boxers. They may not be James Toney or Michael Nunn's caliber, but they were good. I don't see no slouch boxers in that group.

Name me a top natural middleweight that Nunn or Toney have beaten that are in Marvelous' class?

No slouch Middleweights in your group, but certainly no outstanding boxers... Which you pretty much admit their caliber wasn't in the same ballpark.

Toney beat Michael Nunn, Mike McCallum, and Reggie Johnson. Those 3 suffered one (1) KO loss (Toney stopping Nunn) in their combined careers -- though they all 3 fought Light Heavyweights and fought in Light Heavyweight Title Fights -- which Hagler lacked the natural size and strength to fight 175-pound hitters.

James Toney's best weight was Middleweight. Nunn was 36-0 and Pound-for-Pound # 1 when Toney beat him.. That was the only time in his entire career that Nunn was ever stopped and he was ahead on points.. In Hagler's 53rd fight he couldn't floor, stop, or hurt Marcos Geraldo, who had been knocked out 10 times before.. Nun, Toney, Johnson, and McCallum all had a steel tough chins -- so it was highly unlikely Hagler was going to stop them.. I don't see him out-boxing them in a million years because Leonard came off 3 years of inactivity to beat Hagler with no warm-up fights -- but Leonard had NO desire to fight Nunn or McCallum.. Ray knew what would happen if he did.

I found it very interesting how Leonard maneuvered around in his next 4 fights following his victory over Hagler.. It was a little like Mayweather pretending Keith Thurman and Kell Brook didn't exist and fighting Berto -- and Ali focusing on Leon Spinks and pretending Larry Holmes didn't exist..

All 3 ATG's retired, intending not to fight again... The lure of money brought all 3 back ... Only Floyd pulled it off -- like he was born under a lucky star.

[elmersalsa]

Marv ... beat Willie Monroe, Bobby Watts, Sugar Ray Seals, Bennie Briscoe, Fulgencio Obelmejias, Juan Domingo Roldan, Mustapha Hamsho, Eugene "Cyclone" Hart, Vito Antuofermo and Marcos Geraldo were good middleweight boxers. They may not be James Toney or Michael Nunn's caliber, but they were good. I don't see no slouch boxers in that group.

Name me a top natural middleweight that Nunn or Toney have beaten that are in Marvelous' class?

No slouch Middleweights in your group, but certainly no outstanding boxers... Which you pretty much admit their caliber wasn't in the same ballpark.

Toney beat Michael Nunn, Mike McCallum, and Reggie Johnson. Those 3 suffered one (1) KO loss (Toney stopping Nunn) in their combined careers -- though they all 3 fought Light Heavyweights and fought in Light Heavyweight Title Fights -- which Hagler lacked the natural size and strength to fight 175-pound hitters.

James Toney's best weight was Middleweight. Nunn was 36-0 and Pound-for-Pound # 1 when Toney beat him.. That was the only time in his entire career that Nunn was ever stopped and he was ahead on points.. In Hagler's 53rd fight he couldn't floor, stop, or hurt Marcos Geraldo, who had been knocked out 10 times before.. Nun, Toney, Johnson, and McCallum all had a steel tough chins -- so it was highly unlikely Hagler was going to stop them.. I don't see him out-boxing them in a million years because Leonard came off 3 years of inactivity to beat Hagler with no warm-up fights -- but Leonard had NO desire to fight Nunn or McCallum.. Ray knew what would happen if he did.

I found it very interesting how Leonard maneuvered around in his next 4 fights following his victory over Hagler.. It was a little like Mayweather pretending Keith Thurman and Kell Brook didn't exist and fighting Berto -- and Ali focusing on Leon Spinks and pretending Larry Holmes didn't exist..

All 3 ATG's retired, intending not to fight again... The lure of money brought all 3 back ... Only Floyd pulled it off -- like he was born under a lucky star.

You ran off your keyboard saying all that? But, you haven't tell me in writing what middleweight boxers James Toney, Michael Nunn or the great Mike McCallum beat in Marvelous' class?

[Kalan]

For the 3rd time... James Toney beat Michael Nunn, Mike McCallum, and Reggie Johnson -- all of whom were better boxers and punchers than Hagler.

Michael Nunn scored a 1-punch KO over WBA World Middleweight Champion Sumbu Kalambay. It was the only stoppage of Kalambay's career. Kalambay had a hard time because he wasn't an American -- but In the 5 fights before he fought Nunn, Kalambay scored UDs over Harol Graham (mandatory for Hagler who he refused to fight), Iran Barkley, Mike McCallum, a near shut out win over Robbie Sims (Sims is Hagler's brother who out-boxed Duran by a much wider margin than Hagler did), and an easy stoppage of Doug DeWitt. It was a Unification fight which the WBA DIDN'T want -- so they stripped Kalambay of the title before the fight.. Ray Leonard was an active Middleweight doing the expert commentating for the fight. When Nunn scored his "KO of the Year" Leonard said "Nunn proved he can handle any Middleweight" which presumably included Leonard who never had any intention of fighting a Middleweight the caliber of Nunn.

Mike McCallum, at age 35, fought undefeated ATG Middleweight Champion James Toney to a draw, in possibly the most brutal and hardest fought Middleweight Title Fight of all time.. McCallum scored a crushing 2-round KO over undefeated Julian Jackson -- who was 29-0 and a thunderous puncher -- and who was the only man to beat Terry Norris up to the day Norris beat Sugar Ray Leonard.. Terry Norris later scored a 1-round KO over John Mugabi -- but also boxed Sugar Ray Leonard's ass off while scoring 2 knockdowns -- ending Leonard's career for 6 years.

Reggie Johnson beat undefeated Lamar Parks, 22-0, in a WBA World Middleweight Title Fight. Reggie was the only man who ever beat Parks... Parks finished his career 27-1 at the youthful age of 23.. Parks was a brilliant boxer, but also HIV positive and forced to quit his flourishing Boxing career.. Johnson lost a hard fought SD to ATG James Toney... Johnson knocked undefeated World Light Heavyweight Champion William Guthrie, 24-0, out in 5 savagely fought rounds. Guthrie left the ring on a stretcher. Guthrie took over a year off to recover and fought Michael Nunn in his 1st fight back. That was a dumb idea and Guthrie suffered another brutal beating and stoppage.. Johnson defended the Light Heavyweight Title twice and fought a Unification Fight with ATG LHW King Roy Jones who beat the aging Johnson by a wide margin.. Two years late, at 37, Johnson lost a hard fought SD to Antonio Tarver.. That was a very difficult loss to handle emotionally and he quit the ring. But made 2 comebacks. When he was 42 years old he beat Julio Gonzalez (who beat Dariusz Michalczewski) for something called the IBA Light Heavyweight Title and called it quits for good.

What natural Middleweight (or bigger) did Hagler fight who could match the skills and accomplishments of the top opponents of James Toney????

Obviously you have no answer...

[cfang]

Hagler was the undisputed champion for 7 years and fought all comers. What a legend he was. Many fighters came to him looking unbeatable and left a shell of themselves. He was brutal, a powerful puncher, quality boxer, amazing chin, always prepared but most of all mentally he was very strong.

[BoxBuzz]

Hagler was exceptional....no doubt.....and......Lost to Willie, and fought a near draw with Vito and of course lost to a WW.....SRL.

Three things that would never have happened to James Toney.....or Carlos Monzon.

Toney blubbered out of the division, so he never made a legendary lasting mark there...so Hagler does have a standing rep in that division that brings with it great allegiance and loyalty of MW fans. Much Like the fans of Monzon.

I truly think Monzon was the best MW of all time. And I will choose not to think about a hypothetical fight with Toney.....I manage this by choosing to think of James as NOT a MW.

This makes it easier for me, not to have to imagine the unimaginable.

Since both Toney and Jones breezed by this division on their way to elsewhere.....I do like to think of the HW fight between Toney and Jones both of whom humiliated Ruiz..........and I'll ruffle the Jone's boys feathers here by stating categorically that I believe Toney wins that exchange at that weight class.

How do I know this? Because I SEE things. I have only one working eye....so I have to work at it twice as hard as the rest of you....

How does this work out to my advantage? , becasue I only experience HALF as many distractions as the rest of you. So clearly I have SUPER VISION.

Which is why my opinions are so highly respected and revered. I do the hard work....so others can rest and be assured that what I say can be depended upon.

[Kalan]

Hagler was the undisputed champion for 7 years and fought all comers

NO he did NOT fight all comers... He ducked Harol Graham and so was stripped of one title... 12 title defenses in 7 years isn't a lot... He fought one (1) fight each year in 1985, 1986, and 1987... There were some tough Middleweight contenders on the way up and he didn't feel like facing them.