mickey1975 wrote:Sheffield is right up there. Naz, Kell, Nelson, Silky all held a big four title. How many have Manchester and Liverpool had? And you can't count Fury or Hatton as neither are from there or lived there.
Manchester:
Anthony Crolla
Terry Flanagan
Tyson Fury
Greater Manchester:
Ricky Hatton
Scott Quigg
Other:
Carl Thompson (IBO)
Probably missed some old lads I've never heard of.
Carl thompson held the wbo cruiserweight title losing it to johnny nelson
I stand corrected. Don't remember him winning the WBO at all.
thechump wrote:
Ok mickey i will answer for you cause i dont think you know,naz beat cazar soto for the green belt in a boring 12 round fight back in about 98/99,naz body slammed him midway through that fight.
No, I had no idea, only watched Naz from his 3rd amatuer bout....
Just took you so long to answer which sheffield boxer you mentioned held the green belt
mickey1975 wrote:Carl Johannesson, Henry Wharton was based there, Tom Collins, Crawford Ashley and an incredible crop of amateurs coming through. "Warrington has a following of sorts"! Yes, he does! Bateson will gather one, too. And if Hope Price continues as he should, he will be a champion. Burmantofts is one of the best amatuer gyms in Britain and they're all home made.
mickey1975 wrote:Carl Johannesson, Henry Wharton was based there, Tom Collins, Crawford Ashley and an incredible crop of amateurs coming through. "Warrington has a following of sorts"! Yes, he does! Bateson will gather one, too. And if Hope Price continues as he should, he will be a champion. Burmantofts is one of the best amatuer gyms in Britain and they're all home made.
mickey1975 wrote:Sheffield is right up there. Naz, Kell, Nelson, Silky all held a big four title. How many have Manchester and Liverpool had? And you can't count Fury or Hatton as neither are from there or lived there.
WBC cruiser weight title holder Tony Bellew
WBC Light heavyweight title holder john conteh
WBC featherweight title holder paul hoko
How many of the sheffield crew you mentioned held the famous green belt?
Oh i forgot Liam Smith WBO light middle weight champ too
mickey1975 wrote:Sheffield is right up there. Naz, Kell, Nelson, Silky all held a big four title. How many have Manchester and Liverpool had? And you can't count Fury or Hatton as neither are from there or lived there.
WBC cruiser weight title holder Tony Bellew
WBC Light heavyweight title holder john conteh
WBC featherweight title holder paul hoko
How many of the sheffield crew you mentioned held the famous green belt?
Oh i forgot Liam Smith WBO light middle weight champ too
bripez wrote:Come on you Scousers - what about Peter Culshaw, Colin Dunne and Gary Ryder, all won "world titles"
And you Mancs - add Wayne Rigby to the list
Yes but they were wbu titles,mickey said big 4,oh unless its against a weak opponent then it doesnt count at all.
Id of threw shea neary aswell otherwise plus colin dunne and culshaw
bripez wrote:Come on you Scousers - what about Peter Culshaw, Colin Dunne and Gary Ryder, all won "world titles"
And you Mancs - add Wayne Rigby to the list
Yes but they were wbu titles,mickey said big 4,oh unless its against a weak opponent then it doesnt count at all.
Id of threw shea neary aswell otherwise plus colin dunne and culshaw
I never said Boomer or Smith didn't count, just they were very easy fights.
bripez wrote:Come on you Scousers - what about Peter Culshaw, Colin Dunne and Gary Ryder, all won "world titles"
And you Mancs - add Wayne Rigby to the list
Yes but they were wbu titles,mickey said big 4,oh unless its against a weak opponent then it doesnt count at all.
Id of threw shea neary aswell otherwise plus colin dunne and culshaw
I never said Boomer or Smith didn't count, just they were very easy fights.
Oh so your quote of "bellews belt had as much prestige as a green belt from asda" means what exactly? Most of naz wbo defences wer mediocre and his wbc win wasnt exactly a legendary fighter either was it? Old man boom boom for ibf wasnt great either but you typed in the sheffield crew with pride in your fingers. A world championship belt is an achievement not many can say they have won so to me bellews and smiths belts to them are as prestigious as any
strange post tbh - the city has has something like 15 british champions in the past 5 years - pretty solid credentials i'd say. isnt that one of the most objective ways of measuring success as a 'fighting city'? or arent they worth valuing anymore?
its true that shows here dont sell out - and has been well known for years. a bit harsh that a city's objective deprivation and poverty (check the stats - either EU or UK government - Merseyside has some of the poorest areas in and according to both) has to impact on any subjective analysis of what constitutes a tough/fighting city in terms of boxing.
on the one had theres lots of top class boxers - going way back to the 30s when it all kicked off and we saw 42000 at anfield to see shows etc - but there was no tv then, working peoples lives centred around work and sport in a way that it just doesnt now - and boxing was one of those sports. on the other hand people cant really afford to go to shows, especially if they are on tv anyway. some tickets for these shows were over £150 - and i know hardly anyone who was going to pay that. better to watch on tv. its not rocket science.
i'd say theres only one fighter from here who would sell out a big show now - and thats tony bellew. a smaller venue? say 5-8000? i'd back masher to do that in a decent fight - and liam smith. apart fromt hat though there isnt anyone here who seems to galvanise support as much as some from other cities - I'd actually argue that thats indicative of the city being a proper fighting city though - there are lots of boxers to choose from. imagine for isntance a show with all 4 smith brothers on? do you think that woulod sell out? with all their family and friends there? erm you cant sell your cousin 4 tickets for himself can you? or your uncle? again. not rocket science really.
throw in the fact that there was a show a few weeks before and one of the earlier posters comments rings especially true - 2 shows in 2 weeks? nah swerve that - people simply chose one or the other.
i've said for a while that shows dont really sell out here but I dont see that as being the main barometer of what a so called 'fighting' city is. its one of a few and, in an area where people simply cant afford to go and one which also has two PL football clubs etc then its not even that important wither tbh. the number of decent fighters the city has is surely far more resonant?
similarly its true when it comes to spending money on books about local fighters and local boxing. i've written 3 with one more underway (not a fighting city though) and which in total covers over 150 top class boxers going back over a century (not a fihting city though) and whislt the content is there i'd agree the market maybe isnt - i never have more than 350 printed cos anything over and above that number just dont sell. conversely however for a local history book on a particularly niche market then anything over 100 is considered a success.
merseybox wrote:strange post tbh - the city has has something like 15 british champions in the past 5 years - pretty solid credentials i'd say. isnt that one of the most objective ways of measuring success as a 'fighting city'? or arent they worth valuing anymore?
its true that shows here dont sell out - and has been well known for years. a bit harsh that a city's objective deprivation and poverty (check the stats - either EU or UK government - Merseyside has some of the poorest areas in and according to both) has to impact on any subjective analysis of what constitutes a tough/fighting city in terms of boxing.
on the one had theres lots of top class boxers - going way back to the 30s when it all kicked off and we saw 42000 at anfield to see shows etc - but there was no tv then, working peoples lives centred around work and sport in a way that it just doesnt now - and boxing was one of those sports. on the other hand people cant really afford to go to shows, especially if they are on tv anyway. some tickets for these shows were over £150 - and i know hardly anyone who was going to pay that. better to watch on tv. its not rocket science.
i'd say theres only one fighter from here who would sell out a big show now - and thats tony bellew. a smaller venue? say 5-8000? i'd back masher to do that in a decent fight - and liam smith. apart fromt hat though there isnt anyone here who seems to galvanise support as much as some from other cities - I'd actually argue that thats indicative of the city being a proper fighting city though - there are lots of boxers to choose from. imagine for isntance a show with all 4 smith brothers on? do you think that woulod sell out? with all their family and friends there? erm you cant sell your cousin 4 tickets for himself can you? or your uncle? again. not rocket science really.
throw in the fact that there was a show a few weeks before and one of the earlier posters comments rings especially true - 2 shows in 2 weeks? nah swerve that - people simply chose one or the other.
i've said for a while that shows dont really sell out here but I dont see that as being the main barometer of what a so called 'fighting' city is. its one of a few and, in an area where people simply cant afford to go and one which also has two PL football clubs etc then its not even that important wither tbh. the number of decent fighters the city has is surely far more resonant?
similarly its true when it comes to spending money on books about local fighters and local boxing. i've written 3 with one more underway (not a fighting city though) and which in total covers over 150 top class boxers going back over a century (not a fihting city though) and whislt the content is there i'd agree the market maybe isnt - i never have more than 350 printed cos anything over and above that number just dont sell. conversely however for a local history book on a particularly niche market then anything over 100 is considered a success.
Mersey Fighters 4 - out 2018. Get on it.
Good post, thanks Only bit I'd question (and with no agenda on my part) is attributing the poor attendances purely to financial issues. As you've touched on yourself, those financial challenges don't prevent incredibly healthy football attendances for a city of Liverpool's size.
merseybox wrote:strange post tbh - the city has has something like 15 british champions in the past 5 years - pretty solid credentials i'd say. isnt that one of the most objective ways of measuring success as a 'fighting city'? or arent they worth valuing anymore?
its true that shows here dont sell out - and has been well known for years. a bit harsh that a city's objective deprivation and poverty (check the stats - either EU or UK government - Merseyside has some of the poorest areas in and according to both) has to impact on any subjective analysis of what constitutes a tough/fighting city in terms of boxing.
on the one had theres lots of top class boxers - going way back to the 30s when it all kicked off and we saw 42000 at anfield to see shows etc - but there was no tv then, working peoples lives centred around work and sport in a way that it just doesnt now - and boxing was one of those sports. on the other hand people cant really afford to go to shows, especially if they are on tv anyway. some tickets for these shows were over £150 - and i know hardly anyone who was going to pay that. better to watch on tv. its not rocket science.
i'd say theres only one fighter from here who would sell out a big show now - and thats tony bellew. a smaller venue? say 5-8000? i'd back masher to do that in a decent fight - and liam smith. apart fromt hat though there isnt anyone here who seems to galvanise support as much as some from other cities - I'd actually argue that thats indicative of the city being a proper fighting city though - there are lots of boxers to choose from. imagine for isntance a show with all 4 smith brothers on? do you think that woulod sell out? with all their family and friends there? erm you cant sell your cousin 4 tickets for himself can you? or your uncle? again. not rocket science really.
throw in the fact that there was a show a few weeks before and one of the earlier posters comments rings especially true - 2 shows in 2 weeks? nah swerve that - people simply chose one or the other.
i've said for a while that shows dont really sell out here but I dont see that as being the main barometer of what a so called 'fighting' city is. its one of a few and, in an area where people simply cant afford to go and one which also has two PL football clubs etc then its not even that important wither tbh. the number of decent fighters the city has is surely far more resonant?
similarly its true when it comes to spending money on books about local fighters and local boxing. i've written 3 with one more underway (not a fighting city though) and which in total covers over 150 top class boxers going back over a century (not a fihting city though) and whislt the content is there i'd agree the market maybe isnt - i never have more than 350 printed cos anything over and above that number just dont sell. conversely however for a local history book on a particularly niche market then anything over 100 is considered a success.
Mersey Fighters 4 - out 2018. Get on it.
Good post, thanks Only bit I'd question (and with no agenda on my part) is attributing the poor attendances purely to financial issues. As you've touched on yourself, those financial challenges don't prevent incredibly healthy football attendances for a city of Liverpool's size.
I must see this thread every 6 months. What on earth defines a fighting city. op seems to be going off attendances alone. As someone has already alluded to the only scouser who would sell out the echo atm is Bellew. Bellew sold around 15k at goodison which would be in the top 10 possibly top 5 attended shows in 2016. Not bad against a guy casuals would've never of heard off. I don't think the Butler card was too bad tbh 5k was rumoured sales and altho to us die hards it was a stellar bill of 50/50's there was no big world title fight. Also bills like this are mainly based on fighter ticket sales which you'll find a lot watch their boxers then get off so the arena probably never had more than 4k seated at the same time, which would be less than half full at the echo. Thinking back the last time I recall the echo arena full was in the Price hype days.
Liverpool also has the lowest population out've all the other fighting cities mentioned here. British Champions vs population, i'd say Liverpool has to have 1 of the best ratio's surely.
