Tuan_Jim wrote:
When Lewis was 34 he was boxing Evander Holyfield. You don't have a clue.
Ok he was 38 I made a mistake. It is still not 41. And when Vitali was 41 he was a part boxer part politician. You have no clue.
Lewis at 38 had 14 years of pro boxing with scalps such as Gary Mason, Razor Ruddock, Tony Tucker, Tommy Morrison, Ray Mercer, Andrew Golota, Evander Holyfield twice, David Tua, Hasim Rahman, Mike Tyson - and Vitali Klitschko, among many others. He had nothing left to prove.
Vitali at 41 had 12 years pro boxing with Byrd and Lewis as his best opponents and his great scalps being... His good scalps being..... Er, a 39 year old 90s fringe contender Corrie Sanders? He needed David Haye on his record, bad. He saw Haye plug Del boy and decided to leave town, sharpish.
His need to consider Joshua speaks volumes. What wins does anyone remember him for?
I rarely get involved in historical record discussions, because as with fantasy matchups I find them lucking substance. Noone knows how they would no in each others era. Current discussion was only about what happened in that one fight.
Lot of greats tend to think about comeback, some even come back. Because thats how fighters are. I am sure Lewis has also toyed with a possibility of comeback, especially when journalists are asking those things.
Tarkus wrote:
Ok he was 38 I made a mistake. It is still not 41. And when Vitali was 41 he was a part boxer part politician. You have no clue.
Lewis at 38 had 14 years of pro boxing with scalps such as Gary Mason, Razor Ruddock, Tony Tucker, Tommy Morrison, Ray Mercer, Andrew Golota, Evander Holyfield twice, David Tua, Hasim Rahman, Mike Tyson - and Vitali Klitschko, among many others. He had nothing left to prove.
Vitali at 41 had 12 years pro boxing with Byrd and Lewis as his best opponents and his great scalps being... His good scalps being..... Er, a 39 year old 90s fringe contender Corrie Sanders? He needed David Haye on his record, bad. He saw Haye plug Del boy and decided to leave town, sharpish.
His need to consider Joshua speaks volumes. What wins does anyone remember him for?
I rarely get involved in historical record discussions, because as with fantasy matchups I find them lucking substance. Noone knows how they would no in each others era. Current discussion was only about what happened in that one fight.
Lot of greats tend to think about comeback, some even come back. Because thats how fighters are. I am sure Lewis has also toyed with a possibility of comeback, especially when journalists are asking those things.
It's a simple question. What wins do anyone remember Vitali for?
dirk2686 wrote:
It's a simple question. What wins do anyone remember Vitali for?
What I remember are, Corrie Sanders, Kevin Johnson, Samuel Peters, Chris Areola, Odlanier Solis, Adamek and Chisora.
So two (average and old) world champions, an ex-light heavyweight, two fat guys, Del Boy and Kingpin?
Your man is right - he needed Haye.
You mean another ex-light heavy? Or what you would have said. He beat some of the best in his division in his time. Thats all that matters. Everything else is a speculation.
Tarkus wrote:
What I remember are, Corrie Sanders, Kevin Johnson, Samuel Peters, Chris Areola, Odlanier Solis, Adamek and Chisora.
So two (average and old) world champions, an ex-light heavyweight, two fat guys, Del Boy and Kingpin?
Your man is right - he needed Haye.
You mean another ex-light heavy? Or what you would have said. He beat some of the best in his division in his time. Thats all that matters. Everything else is a speculation.
You keep getting basic things wrong here. Haye was an ex-cruiser, not light heavy, and a massive cruiserweight at that, who had also won the heavyweight title himself.
Vitali's record looks more and more weak the more you look at it. No surprise his fans tend to go on about a loss, dressed up as a moral victory, above any of his actual wins.
dirk2686 wrote:
So two (average and old) world champions, an ex-light heavyweight, two fat guys, Del Boy and Kingpin?
Your man is right - he needed Haye.
You mean another ex-light heavy? Or what you would have said. He beat some of the best in his division in his time. Thats all that matters. Everything else is a speculation.
You keep getting basic things wrong here. Haye was an ex-cruiser, not light heavy, and a massive cruiserweight at that, who had also won the heavyweight title himself.
Vitali's record looks more and more weak the more you look at it. No surprise his fans tend to go on about a loss, dressed up as a moral victory, above any of his actual wins.
Haye is same size as Adamek. Whether he fought as light heavy or not when he was a baby is irrelevant. Haye also was destroyed by an ex light heavy. I know it means nothing if you actually know what happened but if you want to go strictly by the record that how it was.
It is his haters that are clinging on fictitious weak record excuse when faced by hard facts.
Vitali must be way too old and body too broken to pull of this win. It sounds great to imagine the fight, as the Vitali that turned out vs Lennox is a big handful. Providing he can keep the skin on his face.
But the fight with Lennox was a long time ago. It could be brutal if he fought Joshua now
dude is about 50. hasnt fought in years. is very debatable that he was ever better than josh. ya, nah, it aint happening and if it did vit would get badly hurt.
jamamb wrote:think of what fat heart not in it anymore lennox did to vitali.
He didnt do nothing. Was badly over matched and then got lucky. If he was in his prime he would make it competitive, probably.
You're just not listening. Lewis didn't get lucky. He had turned the fight around by the stoppage and Vitali was badly cut and had gassed. It was a fair stoppage and there was no injustice. Lewis won fair and square.
Tarkus wrote:
You mean another ex-light heavy? Or what you would have said. He beat some of the best in his division in his time. Thats all that matters. Everything else is a speculation.
You keep getting basic things wrong here. Haye was an ex-cruiser, not light heavy, and a massive cruiserweight at that, who had also won the heavyweight title himself.
Vitali's record looks more and more weak the more you look at it. No surprise his fans tend to go on about a loss, dressed up as a moral victory, above any of his actual wins.
Haye is same size as Adamek. Whether he fought as light heavy or not when he was a baby is irrelevant. Haye also was destroyed by an ex light heavy. I know it means nothing if you actually know what happened but if you want to go strictly by the record that how it was.
It is his haters that are clinging on fictitious weak record excuse when faced by hard facts.
No he wasn't. How long have you followed boxing? Haye was a small heavyweight who drained to cruiser and Adamek was a big light heavyweight who ate and weightlifting his way to heavyweight. He was like, 6'1 and looked like a tiny little boy when he got in with Vitali. Haye-Bellew was an embarrassment cash out for an old, not fit to fight anymore Haye, but he was never actually "hurt" by Bellend in that fight. He just can't fight anymore. I'd be surprised to ever even see him win again. If you judge him by that you're an idiot. It's almost like the people who are KOing Roy Jones now claiming "I beat Roy Jones". No you didn't. You beat the ghost of Roy Jones. Prime Haye knocks prime Bellew into next week and we all know that.
With that in mind, I don't blame Vitali, who looked like dogshit against the crappy Manuel Charr, for retiring before meeting Haye back then. Don't forget Chisora had just given an ageing Vitali hell, and the fracas between the two brits that led to the Upton Park corker happened in the vitali-delboy post fight press conference. Haye was there trying to get his fight with Vitali and then all that "he glassed me" bollocks happened and we got Haye-Chisora instead. Haye was still fresh then and an old the slide Vitali pulled a smart move after David cracked Del's previously iron chin and went into another line of work. I'm not saying big Klit would have lost but it would have been a hell of a fight and it's a shame it never went down.
jamamb wrote:think of what fat heart not in it anymore lennox did to vitali.
He didnt do nothing. Was badly over matched and then got lucky. If he was in his prime he would make it competitive, probably.
You're just not listening. Lewis didn't get lucky. He had turned the fight around by the stoppage and Vitali was badly cut and had gassed. It was a fair stoppage and there was no injustice. Lewis won fair and square.
This. People talk about that fight like Vitali was fresh as a daisy and it was stopped on a cut when he was on the verge of winning.
Nobody ever seems to mention that Lewis beat the crap out of Vitalis body in the clinch, shoulder lock with the left and pound away with the right, and Vitali visibly
wilted from it. Lewis landed about 12 hard right hands against what was increasingly becoming a punch bag by the end of the assault, I can't remember ever seeing a fighter so visibly deteriorating from that kind of attack, it was brutal.
jamamb wrote:think of what fat heart not in it anymore lennox did to vitali.
He didnt do nothing. Was badly over matched and then got lucky. If he was in his prime he would make it competitive, probably.
You're just not listening. Lewis didn't get lucky. He had turned the fight around by the stoppage and Vitali was badly cut and had gassed. It was a fair stoppage and there was no injustice. Lewis won fair and square.
You're not listening. I never said Lewis did not win, or there was some kind of injustice done to Klitschko in the fight. Lewis won, but he won by luck. And I explained what I mean by luck quite clearly. It is useful to actually read what I write, rather then debate based on your preconceptions.
Counter-puncher wrote:Nobody ever seems to mention that Lewis beat the crap out of Vitalis body in the clinch, shoulder lock with the left and pound away with the right, and Vitali visibly
wilted from it. Lewis landed about 12 hard right hands against what was increasingly becoming a punch bag by the end of the assault, I can't remember ever seeing a fighter so visibly deteriorating from that kind of attack, it was brutal.
A fight is 12 rounds and even though Vitali was dominant early, Lewis could have still win it late without any cuts. It is possible but thats not what happened. Thats why we needed to see a rematch.
Counter-puncher wrote:Nobody ever seems to mention that Lewis beat the crap out of Vitalis body in the clinch, shoulder lock with the left and pound away with the right, and Vitali visibly
wilted from it. Lewis landed about 12 hard right hands against what was increasingly becoming a punch bag by the end of the assault, I can't remember ever seeing a fighter so visibly deteriorating from that kind of attack, it was brutal.
A fight is 12 rounds and even though Vitali was dominant early, Lewis could have still win it late without any cuts. It is possible but thats not what happened. Thats why we needed to see a rematch.
When a fighter is being thrown around like an empty tracksuit it's generally a good indicator of the direction the fight is going in
Counter-puncher wrote:Nobody ever seems to mention that Lewis beat the crap out of Vitalis body in the clinch, shoulder lock with the left and pound away with the right, and Vitali visibly
wilted from it. Lewis landed about 12 hard right hands against what was increasingly becoming a punch bag by the end of the assault, I can't remember ever seeing a fighter so visibly deteriorating from that kind of attack, it was brutal.
A fight is 12 rounds and even though Vitali was dominant early, Lewis could have still win it late without any cuts. It is possible but thats not what happened. Thats why we needed to see a rematch.
When a fighter is being thrown around like an empty tracksuit it's generally a good indicator of the direction the fight is going in
What that has to do with anything. Man could not see from one eye due to that cut.
When fight was stopped if they went for scorecards Vitali would win. One can argue that all cuts should be treated as accidental. Because there is nothing deliberate in giving cut. If fighter gets a cut from a punch is a matter of luck ALWAYS.
Tarkus wrote:
He didnt do nothing. Was badly over matched and then got lucky. If he was in his prime he would make it competitive, probably.
You're just not listening. Lewis didn't get lucky. He had turned the fight around by the stoppage and Vitali was badly cut and had gassed. It was a fair stoppage and there was no injustice. Lewis won fair and square.
You're not listening. I never said Lewis did not win, or there was some kind of injustice done to Klitschko in the fight. Lewis won, but he won by luck. And I explained what I mean by luck quite clearly. It is useful to actually read what I write, rather then debate based on your preconceptions.
No. You're not listening. It wasn't lucky. He was in trouble and he got himself out of it by digging deep and turning the fight around. Nothing lucky about that.
The Lewis fight is a big passé now is it not. People will always have different takes on what happened, what would have happened etc. It was just that type of scrap.
ewenhay wrote:
You're just not listening. Lewis didn't get lucky. He had turned the fight around by the stoppage and Vitali was badly cut and had gassed. It was a fair stoppage and there was no injustice. Lewis won fair and square.
You're not listening. I never said Lewis did not win, or there was some kind of injustice done to Klitschko in the fight. Lewis won, but he won by luck. And I explained what I mean by luck quite clearly. It is useful to actually read what I write, rather then debate based on your preconceptions.
No. You're not listening. It wasn't lucky. He was in trouble and he got himself out of it by digging deep and turning the fight around. Nothing lucky about that.
Either you are too thick to understand simple English or you are trolling. In either cases I am done arguing with you.
Tarkus wrote:
You're not listening. I never said Lewis did not win, or there was some kind of injustice done to Klitschko in the fight. Lewis won, but he won by luck. And I explained what I mean by luck quite clearly. It is useful to actually read what I write, rather then debate based on your preconceptions.
No. You're not listening. It wasn't lucky. He was in trouble and he got himself out of it by digging deep and turning the fight around. Nothing lucky about that.
Either you are too thick to understand simple English or you are trolling. In either cases I am done arguing with you.
Resorting to insults because your view on the fight is being challenged and called out. Well done. If it makes you happy to think I am thick and Lewis was lucky then fill your boots.
Tarkus wrote:
A fight is 12 rounds and even though Vitali was dominant early, Lewis could have still win it late without any cuts. It is possible but thats not what happened. Thats why we needed to see a rematch.
When a fighter is being thrown around like an empty tracksuit it's generally a good indicator of the direction the fight is going in
What that has to do with anything. Man could not see from one eye due to that cut.
When fight was stopped if they went for scorecards Vitali would win. One can argue that all cuts should be treated as accidental. Because there is nothing deliberate in giving cut. If fighter gets a cut from a punch is a matter of luck ALWAYS.
I think you'll be the only one arguing that all cuts should be deemed accidental and the fights should go to the scorecards. Eliciting a cut and targeting it for further damage is a legitimate tactic as is having a good cut man in your corner to minimise and manage damage caused.
dirk2686 wrote:
It's a simple question. What wins do anyone remember Vitali for?
What I remember are, Corrie Sanders, Kevin Johnson, Samuel Peters, Chris Areola, Odlanier Solis, Adamek and Chisora.
Joshua has already done better than that. Vitali would beat many of the dozens of heavyweights with better resumes. Stick to that, listing blobs like Kevin Johnson and Solis just makes you look dumb.
Joshua has already done better than that. Vitali would beat many of the dozens of heavyweights with better resumes. Stick to that, listing blobs like Kevin Johnson and Solis just makes you look dumb.