Pulev vs. Joshua Oct. 28th

[man]

perfect fight for joshua. entertaining
opponent coming forward, yet without
the tools to be dangerous. pulev has
heart and he famous puncher's chance
especially since these is the heavies.

but there is no way he beats prime AJ.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Pulev is entertaining? Joshua might make him be, but that is hysterical as a description of his style.

[Counter-puncher]

you don't find people getting punched repeatedly in the face entertaining?

[man]

you don't find people getting punched repeatedly in the face entertaining?

i found him entertaining against wlad.
meaning he had a superior opponent
and didn't back down, which i figure
would be similar in this one.

[punchoutsb]

Joshua sparring with Helenius

..Helenius looks bigger that I expected, kinda dwarfs Joshua..

Joshua weighed 250 for his last and most important fight... Nobody in the top 10 dwarfs the man... Helenius weighed 239 for his last fight.

Fury would look a lot bigger than Joshua right now... But is that because he's a lot bigger or because he packed on 100 pounds of blubber???

Helenius is also standing a lot closer to the camera... I think Joshua does some of these things strategically so he's not too big a favorite or blown out of proportion... He doesn't want anything like the Joe Louis "Bum of the Month Club" where it got boring because he was always such a huge favorite.

Helenius is bigger than Joshua.

[candyslim]

No matter what some say, Pulev is a legit challenger to the crown.

Only relative to how shallow the division is.

I've been watching boxing only since the 70's so I don't know what it was like pre '75 but from my memoy there is usually only about 5 guys in the 'A' level HW division. The only difference from then to now is that those top 5 guys would fight each other regularly. Now we only get to speculate how they would go againts each other

I guess than depends on your definition of 'A' level but wnen I first got the bug the heavyweight division looked something like this ...

Ch) Joe Frazier
1) Muhammad Ali
2) George Foreman
3) Jerry Quarry
4) Jimmy Ellis
5) Oscar Bonavena
6) Floyd Patterson
7) George Chuvalo
8) Buster Mathis
9) Mac Foster
10) Ron Lyle

Soon to be breaking through were guys like Ken Norton, Earnie Shavers, Joe Bugner, and soon to followed by the likes of Leon Spinks, Jimmy Young, Larry Holmes - how's that for an array of talent? ... and they actually fought each other !!!

I've now managed to depress the hell out of myself

[KiwiRider]

Only relative to how shallow the division is.

I've been watching boxing only since the 70's so I don't know what it was like pre '75 but from my memoy there is usually only about 5 guys in the 'A' level HW division. The only difference from then to now is that those top 5 guys would fight each other regularly. Now we only get to speculate how they would go againts each other

I guess than depends on your definition of 'A' level but wnen I first got the bug the heavyweight division looked something like this ...

Ch) Joe Frazier
1) Muhammad Ali
2) George Foreman
3) Jerry Quarry
4) Jimmy Ellis
5) Oscar Bonavena
6) Floyd Patterson
7) George Chuvalo
8) Buster Mathis
9) Mac Foster
10) Ron Lyle

Soon to be breaking through were guys like Ken Norton, Earnie Shavers, Joe Bugner, and soon to followed by the likes of Leon Spinks, Jimmy Young, Larry Holmes - how's that for an array of talent? ... and they actually fought each other !!!

I've now managed to depress the hell out of myself

Aww man!
You shouldn't have done that!
We must repress these things like choir practice.. And accept that the HW is a shadow of what it was. All but a few too scared of losing their unbeaten records to challenge themselves against the best.
Personally I don't care if a fighter loses, look at George Groves his record was what the Americans call a journeyman's a few years ago

[candyslim]

Kiwi ... You're not helping

[Ilya Muromets]

Only relative to how shallow the division is.

I've been watching boxing only since the 70's so I don't know what it was like pre '75 but from my memoy there is usually only about 5 guys in the 'A' level HW division. The only difference from then to now is that those top 5 guys would fight each other regularly. Now we only get to speculate how they would go againts each other

I guess than depends on your definition of 'A' level but wnen I first got the bug the heavyweight division looked something like this ...

Ch) Joe Frazier
1) Muhammad Ali
2) George Foreman
3) Jerry Quarry
4) Jimmy Ellis
5) Oscar Bonavena
6) Floyd Patterson
7) George Chuvalo
8) Buster Mathis
9) Mac Foster
10) Ron Lyle

Soon to be breaking through were guys like Ken Norton, Earnie Shavers, Joe Bugner, and soon to followed by the likes of Leon Spinks, Jimmy Young, Larry Holmes - how's that for an array of talent? ... and they actually fought each other !!!

I've now managed to depress the hell out of myself

It was not a world heavyweight championship back then, it was only an American heavyweight championship. Even Argentine Oscar Bonavena was living in the USA, in a trailer on the grounds of a Nevada cat house of all places...a very unwise place of residence as it turned out. The American press spin machine plays them up as if they were the greatest thing since John L. Sullivan, but they weren't.

[Ilya Muromets]

Kind of you to say so x2x.

Please don't mention it. I've been worrying over how I should dress for the post fight tv interviews when they ask me how I knew that Pulev would KO Joshua. I'm not sure what kind of flower to wear in my lapel, a petunia or a posy?

I have a feeling you're going to be more worried about the egg on your face and how you're going to cope with a diet of eating crow and humble pie

Not long to wait now

You are just jealous of my coming fame and glory.

[KiwiRider]

Kind of you to say so x2x.

Please don't mention it. I've been worrying over how I should dress for the post fight tv interviews when they ask me how I knew that Pulev would KO Joshua. I'm not sure what kind of flower to wear in my lapel, a petunia or a posy?

I have a feeling you're going to be more worried about the egg on your face and how you're going to cope with a diet of eating crow and humble pie

Not long to wait now

Mmm pie

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Wow, kiwi in an imbecile sandwich.

[KiwiRider]

Wow, kiwi in an imbecile sandwich.

I'm just here for the pies Saad.

I need something to cheer me up, it seems Groves/Cox isn't being shown here and I've been looking forward to it for ages

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Wow, kiwi in an imbecile sandwich.

I'm just here for the pies Saad.

I need something to cheer me up, it seems Groves/Cox isn't being shown here and I've been looking forward to it for ages

I've never seen Cox. I'm going in order of enticement tomorrow. The crap feather card, groves/Cox and lubins coming out party. War Cox!

[Kalan]

Ch) Joe Frazier
1) Muhammad Ali
2) George Foreman
3) Jerry Quarry
4) Jimmy Ellis
5) Oscar Bonavena
6) Floyd Patterson
7) George Chuvalo
8) Buster Mathis
9) Mac Foster
10) Ron Lyle

Ridiculous list man...

First off -- it's a joke to have Quarry ranked ahead of Ellis -- Ellis beat Quarry, Chuvalo, and Bonavena very handily -- Ellis and Chuvalo beat Quarry... Also, Ellis fought the majority of his fights to that point in the Middleweight Division and got run over by Little Joe Frazier.. Foster, Chuvalo, and Bonavena couldn't box a lick.. Mathis weighed between 220 and 280, depending on whether he felt like training or eating.. Foreman couldn't get past feather hitting smallster Jimmy Young.. Bonavena was rejected by the Argentine military because he had club feet.. He was 5'11" X 203 and impossible to miss with a punch.

Compare those little sad sacks to the TOP 40 HEAVYWEIGHTS TODAY... Strongest and most international the division has been.

1. Anthony Joshua... 2. Luis Ortiz... 3. Deontay Wilder... 4. Alexander Povetkin... 5. Joseph Parker... 6. Jarrell Miller... 7. Dominic Breazeale... 8. Andy Ruiz... 9. Carlos Takam... 10. Dillian Whyte 11. Kubrat Pulev... 12. Hughie Fury... 13. David Haye... 14. Bryant Jennings... 15. Johann Duhaupas... 16. Tom Schwarz... 17. Gerald Washington... 18. Charles Martin... 19. Christian Hammer... 20. Oscar Rivas... 21. Izuagbe Ugonoh... 22. Jun Long Zhang... 23. Dereck Chisora... 24. Ruslan Chagaev... 25. Otto Wallin... 26. Artur Szpilka... 27. Amir Mansour… 28. Bermane Stiverne... 29. Czar Glazkov... 30. Robert Helenius... 31. Eric Molina... 32. Tony Bellew… 33. Malik Scott... 34. Erkan Tepper... 35. Alexander Ustinov... 36. Adam Kownacki... 37. Lucas Browne... 38. Francesco Pianeta... 39. Carlos Negron... 40. Andriy Rudenko

Beats a lot of Heavyweight Title Challengers from the 1950’s, 60’s and 70’s:

Don Cockell... Roland LaStarza... Tom McNeely... Pete Rademacher... Roy Harris... Brian London... Henry Cooper... Karl Mildenbugger... Alfredo Evangelista... Chuck Wepner... Jean Pierre Coopman... Leon Stinks... Terry Daniels... Dave Zyglewitz... Manuel Ramos... Ron Stander... Richard Dunn...

How did some of those fart bags get title shots???

[candyslim]

You are just jealous of my coming fame and glory.

Yeah, that must be it

Wow, kiwi in an imbecile sandwich.

With Saad providing the vinegar and little else as per.

Ridiculous list man...

Kalan: That was just my memory of a snap-shot in time. Did you not think that if I had been attempting to rate the guys in this list, that I'd have put Foreman above Frazier, just for starters?

I wasn't saying that the fighters on the list would necessarily beat those around today. I'm more making the point that there are a lot of familiar and well respected names among them, who were not afraid to face each other. The division was extremely competitive whatever else you might say.

I do accept the criticism that boxing was far less international mainly due to Eastern bloc countries ideological aversion to professionalism. Even then I was very conscious of that - how I wished Teofilo Stevenson had joined the pro ranks. I do think it's unfair to dismiss them based on size. That's how it was then and obviously Foreman would be "Not so big George" today, and his physical advantages would melt away faced with the likes of Joshua today. That's no reason to denigrate their memory is it, if AJ had been boxing in the 70s he probably wouldn't have been 6' 6" and 250 lbs. There were fighters that size around, Jack O'Halloran, Roby Harris. James J Beattie etc but they didn't have the athleticism of the modern giant.

[candyslim]

I was captivated by the, at that time, unparalleled build up to Frazier v Ali I and suddenly I wanted to know who else was in contention for the best fighter on the planet. I invested quite a portion of my schoolboy pocket-money (weekly allowance) in a copy of the "Boxing Illustrated" and spent hours pouring over it, and hanging on every word. I absorbed everything I could especially about the heavyweights. With no internet to help me I was particularly interested in finding out about significant figures on the heavyweight scene just before I got interested, people like Leotis Martin, Eddie Machen, Zora Folley, Cleveland Williams and especially whatever happened to Joey Orbillo?

I'm pretty sure that positions down to Chuvalo at 7 are an accurate reproduction of those BI rankings, 8 thru 10 ... well it's getting on for 50 years ago, memories fade.

Obviously any rankings are in a constant state of flux, affected by new results as they come in. Rankings are always subjective and highly debatable at the moment they are conceived. They are never going to stand up to a quality evaluation made with the benefit of decades of hindsight. It is as I said just a snapshot in time and should be taken for what it is.

[greg]

Obviously any rankings are in a constant state of flux, affected by new results as they come in. Rankings are always subjective and highly debatable at the moment they are conceived. They are never going to stand up to a quality evaluation made with the benefit of decades of hindsight. It is as I said just a snapshot in time and should be taken for what it is.

well said, Candy..

[candyslim]

Thank you Greg

[Tony1244]

20-1 sounds about right. Injuries do happen, so a bet on Pulev at those odds isn't the stupidest move of all time.

But there is about a 95% chance Pulev loses and that's what I expect.

[Tony1244]

Ch) Joe Frazier
1) Muhammad Ali
2) George Foreman
3) Jerry Quarry
4) Jimmy Ellis
5) Floyd Patterson
6) Oscar Bonavena
7) Buster Mathis
8) George Chuvalo
9) Mac Foster
10) Ron Lyle

Ridiculous list man...

First off -- it's a joke to have Quarry ranked ahead of Ellis -- Ellis beat Quarry, Chuvalo, and Bonavena very handily -- Ellis and Chuvalo beat Quarry... Also, Ellis fought the majority of his fights to that point in the Middleweight Division and got run over by Little Joe Frazier.. Foster, Chuvalo, and Bonavena couldn't box a lick.. Mathis weighed between 220 and 280, depending on whether he felt like training or eating.. Foreman couldn't get past feather hitting smallster Jimmy Young.. Bonavena was rejected by the Argentine military because he had club feet.. He was 5'11" X 203 and impossible to miss with a punch.

Compare those little sad sacks to the TOP 40 HEAVYWEIGHTS TODAY... Strongest and most international the division has been.

1. Anthony Joshua... 2. Luis Ortiz... 3. Deontay Wilder... 4. Alexander Povetkin... 5. Joseph Parker... 6. Jarrell Miller... 7. Dominic Breazeale... 8. Andy Ruiz... 9. Carlos Takam... 10. Dillian Whyte 11. Kubrat Pulev... 12. Hughie Fury... 13. David Haye... 14. Bryant Jennings... 15. Johann Duhaupas... 16. Tom Schwarz... 17. Gerald Washington... 18. Charles Martin... 19. Christian Hammer... 20. Oscar Rivas... 21. Izuagbe Ugonoh... 22. Jun Long Zhang... 23. Dereck Chisora... 24. Ruslan Chagaev... 25. Otto Wallin... 26. Artur Szpilka... 27. Amir Mansour… 28. Bermane Stiverne... 29. Czar Glazkov... 30. Robert Helenius... 31. Eric Molina... 32. Tony Bellew… 33. Malik Scott... 34. Erkan Tepper... 35. Alexander Ustinov... 36. Adam Kownacki... 37. Lucas Browne... 38. Francesco Pianeta... 39. Carlos Negron... 40. Andriy Rudenko

Beats a lot of Heavyweight Title Challengers from the 1950’s, 60’s and 70’s:

Don Cockell... Roland LaStarza... Tom McNeely... Pete Rademacher... Roy Harris... Brian London... Henry Cooper... Karl Mildenbugger... Alfredo Evangelista... Chuck Wepner... Jean Pierre Coopman... Leon Stinks... Terry Daniels... Dave Zyglewitz... Manuel Ramos... Ron Stander... Richard Dunn...

How did some of those fart bags get title shots???

Ellis did beat Quarry, but Quarry beat Lyle and Lyle beat Ellis.

How did these fart bags get shots? LOL. Champs like easy days at work as much as the next guy and its fun for fans to watch a relatively unknown. Wasn't LaStarza a tough defense? Didn't Rocky have at least one tough fight with him. I'll rank those names from a historical perspective.


1) Muhammad Ali
2) George Foreman
3) Joe Frazier
4) Floyd Patterson
5) Jerry Quarry
6) Ron Lyle
7) Jimmy Ellis
8) Oscar Bonavena
9) George Chuvalo
10) Buster Mathis
11) Mac Foster

I know Ellis beat Quarry by decision. But Quarry beat Lyle and Shavers and Ellis lost to Lyle and Shavers by KO.

[candyslim]

Yes he did. He also dismantled Mac Foster who was regarded as a very dangerous newcomer, and many considered Jerry was going to regret taking the fight. He sure showed them.

[Ossyrules]

I wouldn’t be too concerned about kalan replies candy. His recollection of history is quite warped and unique to himself. He is also a slave to numbers, which as we all know don’t tell a complete story

[SFW]

Pulev lol, the guy's most accurate shot is a right hand to the back of the head. It is devoutly wished, and likely to happen, that we see Pulev flat on his back in the Jesus position again.

[candyslim]

I don't always agree with him Oz but he's pretty knowledgeable and often has a unique perspective which is no bad thing on any forum. Anyone who can make a case that Muhammad Ali really wasn't as good as he was cracked up to be, without me writing him off as a ferkin idiot deserves a measure of respect I reckon.

I generally find his contribution worthwhile, even if I don't share his opinion..