top black heavyweight contenders of the 1940s

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 07 Apr 2006, 20:42

here are my top 10 black heavyweight contenders of the 1940s

NOTE: i am leaving out jersey joe walcott and ezzard since they won titles

top 10 black heavyweight contenders of 1940s

1. Elmer "Violent" Ray 6'2 195lb heavyweight peak 1946
http://www.boxrec.com/media/images/9/92/Ray_Elmer_1.jpg

* herbert goldman rates elmer ray # 17 all time heavyweight.

- i rate elmer ray # 29 greatest heavyweight of all time . ray is a vastly underated heavyweight. he not only had devastaing KO power, he also had solid boxing skills. ray fought out of a crouch bobbin/weavin . ray was in essence a puncher-swarmer a rare breed. Ray also beat both jersey joe walcott and ezzard charles when both were at/near there best.

2. Jimmy Bivins 5'11 187lb heavyweight peak 1945
http://www.cyberboxingzone.com/images/bivins.jpg

3. Lee Q Murray 6' 210lb heavyweight peak 1946
http://www.boxrec.com/media/images/d/d3/Murray_LeeQ.jpg

4. Turkey Thompson 5'9 205lb heavyweight peak 1943
http://www.pugilistica.com/BoxingArchiv ... gFront.JPG

5. Lem Franklin 6'2 200lb heavyweight peak 1941
http://www.boxrec.com/media/images/f/f5 ... in.Lem.jpg

6. Roscoe Toles 6'2 205lb heayvweight peak 1942
http://www.boxrec.com/media/images/c/c4 ... Roscoe.jpg

7. Curtis "hatchetman" Sheppard 5'11 185lb heavyweight peak 1943
http://www.boxrec.com/media/images/c/ce ... Curtis.jpg

8. Harry Bobo 6'4 210lb heavyweight peak 1942
http://www.boxrec.com/media/images/7/75/Bobo_Harry.jpg

9. Buddy Walker 5'11 195lb heavyweight peak 1944

- anyone that has a pic that would be great

10. Eddie "dark spoiler" Blunt 6' 220lb heavyweight peak 1941
http://www.boxrec.com/media/images/5/51/Blunt_Eddie.jpg

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 07 Apr 2006, 23:48

Elmer Violent Ray on a side note, was ranked in RING magazines greatest punchers of all time, I think in the top 50, I have the issue somewhere but I forget his actual ranking.

I think the best of those listed on this list was Jimmy Bivins, then Ray and then Thompson.

HomicideHenry · Post by **HomicideHenry** » 08 Apr 2006, 00:02

Yea but really by the time he faced Joe Louis, John Henry Lewis was pretty much washed up, he was almost blind---and Louis, as his friend, figured to just blast Lewis out of there rather than beat him up too badly.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 08 Apr 2006, 01:21

lewis beat a very green well before his prime elmer ray

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 08 Apr 2006, 01:22

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:Yea but really by the time he faced Joe Louis, John Henry Lewis was pretty much washed up, he was almost blind---and Louis, as his friend, figured to just blast Lewis out of there rather than beat him up too badly.

he was not washed up, he was 25 years old. he was coming off some good victories.

Jaclem · Post by **Jaclem** » 10 Apr 2006, 02:44

decagon is right.....lewis' vision problems had been with him for a long time, but he was so good he was still a winning fighter. finally the eyes got so bad that he got a challenge against joe louis for one final decent gate. as has been written the bomber got him out of there at once so lewis wouldn't have to take a beating. lewis himself, though, made it easy for joe....but not intentionally. the guy with the wings on his feet just froze and was an easy target.

one of the truly great light heavy weight champions...a brillian boxer..yet he seldom get mentioned when the best of this division are talked about.

pound per pound · Post by **pound per pound** » 10 Apr 2006, 15:33

IrishRufusMurphy wrote:Elmer Violent Ray on a side note, was ranked in RING magazines greatest punchers of all time, I think in the top 50, I have the issue somewhere but I forget his actual ranking.

I think the best of those listed on this list was Jimmy Bivins, then Ray and then Thompson.

I agree with Irish. Bivins was the best of the bunch, than Ray then Thompson.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 10 Apr 2006, 16:05

pound per pound wrote:
IrishRufusMurphy wrote:Elmer Violent Ray on a side note, was ranked in RING magazines greatest punchers of all time, I think in the top 50, I have the issue somewhere but I forget his actual ranking.

I think the best of those listed on this list was Jimmy Bivins, then Ray and then Thompson.
I agree with Irish. Bivins was the best of the bunch, than Ray then Thompson.

I disagree. elmer ray was able to beat jersey joe walcott and ezzard charles both at/near there best. bivins never beat a prime charles, in fact he lost to charles in 46 and 47. jimmy bivins also lost to walcott in 1946, while ray managed to beat walcott in 46.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 11 Apr 2006, 08:33

Decagon wrote:Bivins was past his prime in 1946. You easily ignore the numerous and embarassing losses Ray had outside of his prime, but you use Bivins's to indict him.

bivins was NOT past his prime in 1946. he was only 26 years old and hadnt lost in 3 years! the only people bivins lost to in 1946 were charles, walcott, and top contender lee q murray. bivins was pretty much at his peak in 1946 as bivins absolute prime was the mid 1940s. to say bivins was past his prime in 1946 is a joke and laughable. fact is the reason bivins lost to charles in moore in 46-47 was becuase moore and charles were bigger and far better fighters than when they faced bivins the first time.

jersey joe walcott beat a PEAK jimmy bivins in 1946, who was the # 1 contendder, 26 years old, and undefeated in past 3 years

Cojimar 1945 · Post by **Cojimar 1945** » 11 Apr 2006, 13:39

Bivins would definitely have to rate ahead of Ray.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 11 Apr 2006, 13:49

Cojimar 1945 wrote:Bivins would definitely have to rate ahead of Ray.

i disagree, ray was the better heavyweight. what causes u to imply bivins was a better heavyweight than ray?

herbert goldman rates elmer ray # 17 heavyweight of all time

Ambling Alp · Post by **Ambling Alp** » 12 Apr 2006, 20:25

As a long time Turkey Thompson fan,

I just wanted to point out that Elmer Ray didn't fight anyone else on this list except for Turkey. Turkey knocked Ray out in the first round.

Actually this wasn't interesting thinking about these guys. Some of them were comparable to the white heavyweights that did get title shots in the 1940's.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 13 Apr 2006, 00:14

Ambling Alp wrote:As a long time Turkey Thompson fan, I just wanted to point out that Elmer Ray didn't fight anyone else on this list except for Turkey. Turkey knocked Ray out in the first round.

Actually this wasn't interesting thinking about these guys. Some of them were comparable to the white heavyweights that did get title shots in the 1940's.

ray was better than turkey. he was dominating turkey in the rematch but it became a NC because the referee wasnt allowed to ref bouts, something like that.

turkey simply caught him cold in the first fight. ray was better.

ray beat walcott and charles, something turkey would never be able to do

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 13 Apr 2006, 01:20

Decagon wrote:
BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:bivins was NOT past his prime in 1946. he was only 26 years old and hadnt lost in 3 years! the only people bivins lost to in 1946 were charles, walcott, and top contender lee q murray. bivins was pretty much at his peak in 1946 as bivins absolute prime was the mid 1940s. to say bivins was past his prime in 1946 is a joke and laughable. fact is the reason bivins lost to charles in moore in 46-47 was becuase moore and charles were bigger and far better fighters than when they faced bivins the first time.
Naseem Hamed was 27 and hadn't lost in 10 years when he fought Marco Antonio Barerra, but he wasn't in his prime. When your beloved Elmer Ray was 26, he was busy being knocked out by journeymen. How come Jimmy Bivins is supposed to be in his prime at age 26, but Elmer Ray isn't, huh? You just love using one criterion for judging fighters you like, and another one for fighters you don't like. You're just like any Mike Tyson/Vitali Klitschko fan, who will post any bullshit to support his case.

every fighter primes differently................

bivins was the # 1 contender hadnt lost in 3 years, 26 years old, yet u expect people to believe you that he was past his prime?

like i said, EVERY FIGHTER PRIMES DIFFERENTLY

lennox lewis a better fighter in his 30s

joe frazier past his prime before 30 years old

wouter · Post by **wouter** » 13 Apr 2006, 09:28

Decagon wrote:... then explain why Bivins was in his prime at age 26, when all the fights he was in show that he wasn't as good as he was in his early 20s?

Come on, just admit that you didn't know what you were talking about

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 13 Apr 2006, 09:34

Decagon wrote:... then explain why Bivins was in his prime at age 26, when all the fights he was in show that he wasn't as good as he was in his early 20s?

actually other way around

bivins peak was the mid 1940s. when he fought walcott, he hadnt lost since 4/17/42. thats almost 4 years going undefeated! he was also the # 1 contender and ONLY 26 years old! if u look at his record his best years were 1943-46.

he was still green in 40-42 which is why he dropped some bouts.

Cojimar 1945 · Post by **Cojimar 1945** » 13 Apr 2006, 14:25

Bivins has a resume that I find considerably more impressive than Ray's.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 13 Apr 2006, 14:43

Cojimar 1945 wrote:Bivins has a resume that I find considerably more impressive than Ray's.

even though ray beat a prime charles and walcott and bivins lost to a prime charles and walcott?

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 13 Apr 2006, 16:20

Decagon wrote:Bivins's resume:
Charley Burley

Curtis Sheppard

Billy Soose

Ezzard Charles

Lloyd Marshall

Tami Mauriello

Bob Pastor

Lee Savold

Joey Maxim

Melio Bettina

Archie Moore
That's a damn strong list of fighters for anyone to beat, and you shouldn't marginalize it.

-charles was before his prime and charles took the fight on last second notice straight from the army in 43. charles was also giving up a HUGE weight advantage.

-when bivins fought a prime charles, HE LOST

-moore was well before his prime giving up a huge weight advantage to bivins in 1945. when bivins fought a PRIME moore, bivins LOST.

i will admit though thats a damm good resume

top black heavyweight contenders of the 1940s

top black heavyweight contenders of the 1940s

Agree

Re: Agree

Bivins superior

Re: Bivins superior

Bivins resume

Re: Bivins resume