They say Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up.

[Kalan]

is another way to escape without having an argument or reply that at least addresses the discussion.

[Kalan]

Georgie Small, who has NOTHING to do with the article at the beginning of the thread

He has everything to do with the article you moron... Robinson failed to show up for his fight with Georgie Small and a number of other scheduled fights. They're all pertinent to the subject matter of the thread -- which is "Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up."

[Kalan]

So... you're taking every name your mom and scumbag friends ever called you -- and redirecting them at me because I'm helping to point out that Sugar Ray Robinson ducked out of several fights by simply not showing up What a hopeless idiot you are

Get help!!! Or not... It's your miserable life. BTW...SRR heavily padded his record for his first 100-something fights...and even afterward with non-title fights. It's how you do in World Title Fights that happens to be the Gold Standard for determining greatness -- because it's harder to pad up your Title Fight resume.

[Kalan]

Robinson had retirements of convenience... The first was when he punched himself out and got stopped by feather hitting Joey Maxim... He didn't want to do the rematch which fans were clamoring for... So he simply claimed he was quitting Boxing to become a song and dance man.

[keithmoonhangover]

is another way to escape without having an argument or reply that at least addresses the discussion.

I waved because he said goodbye.

[Kalan]

It would be hard to belittle the greatest fighter who ever lived -- but not hard to belittle Sugar Ray Robinson the record padder.

After Robinson's miserable failures in business and show biz...he made a comeback in Boxing... For his 2nd fight back he cherry-picked Ralph Jones -- a boxer coming off 5 straight losses... Jones beat the shiit out of Robinson driving him from ring-post to ring-post, and handing him his 2nd defeat in 3 fights.

[APerno]

Between LaMotta and Turpin Robinson went, in 91 fights, 88-0-2 with one ND (Feb. '43 through July '51)

[Kalan]

For the most part he was fighting guys that a good boxer could fight every week of the year -- with no fear of a loss.. No Charley Burley's in there.

[APerno]

I agree but to an extent - during that run only two fighters had losing records, and many had over 40 wins.

[Kalan]

Well... It's all in who you fight isn't it???

Gennady Golovkin's last 4 opponents had 2 losses in their last combined 138 fights -- and those 2 losses were to fighters who went undefeated for their entire careers.. So Triple-G's last 4 opponents had a combined better record than Sugar Ray Robinson had in his first 138 fight -- cuz SRR lost 3 of those -- and also lost his 139th fight BTW -- to that pesky guy Ralph Jones who was coming off 5 straight losses.

It is true that a lot of guys Robinson fought had winning records.. but WHEN did he fight them??? Jean Walzack had a winning record---but lost his previous 10 fights in a row before fighting Robinson.. Kid Marcel was in the process of losing 9 of his last 10 fights.. Jean Wanes did end with a losing record and was in the process of losing 10 of his last 12 fights..

It was the same theme when Robinson was an amateur.. His backers kept Robinson out of competitive national and international tournaments.. And when Robinson took a loss they blamed it on Walker Smith -- Robinson's real name.. Winning was their theme and they didn't want any losses.

Nino Benvenuti fought in competitive national and international tournaments including the Olympic Games.. And had a better amateur record than Robinson.

[klompton]

Calling Robinson a record padder is high comedy.

[Kalan]

It would be hard to belittle the greatest fighter who ever lived -- but not hard to belittle Sugar Ray Robinson the record padder.

After Robinson's miserable failures in business and show biz...he made a comeback in Boxing... For his 2nd fight back he cherry-picked Ralph Jones -- a boxer coming off 5 straight losses... Jones beat the shiit out of Robinson driving him from ring-post to ring-post, and handing him his 2nd defeat in 3 fights.

So what is your point? In Maxims very next fight after SRR a mere 6 months later Archie Moore battered him from pillar to post beating him by a combined 40 points over 15 rounds. He further lost twice to Archie, and twice to Olson, plus others who were certainly no better than Robinson.

I would further point out your hypocrisy ( because you do these things with malice aforethought ) they can't be inconsistencies, which are " Vitali was winning, Vitali was winning, Vitali was winning " yet you conveniently ignore the FACT that Robinson was winning on all 3 cards until the heat in the ring got the better of him.

Now lets get to that. Generally speaking I believe all newspapers should be perforated every 6 inches so they can serve their proper purpose ( asswipe ) but sometimes the law of averages simply can't be ignored. So when the worlds press came to the conclusion it was the heat that did for SRR as opposed to anything Maxim had to offer I tend to accept that over some fool on the net with an anti Robinson agenda.

Funny thing... It was just as hot the night of Robinson vs Maxim for both fighters. One of the 2 boxers cleverly paced himself for the heat.

Archie Moore was a very clever ATG fighter who never ran out of gas or quit in his corner because he was outsmarted by Joey Maxim... Archie was older than Robinson. He fought more fights and won more fights and scored more KO wins than Robinson. But Robinson still refused to fight the old warrior because he knew he'd get knocked out. Joey Maxim hardly ever knocked anybody out. The only recognizable name by the casual fan who appears on Maxim's KO record is Robinson -- who he stopped in 13 by intelligently pacing himself for the weather and telling Robinson "You can't punch Ray. You can't break popcorn." Maxim had no chance in HELL of outsmarting the deceptive, feinting and trap-setting Mongoose the way he did a brawling swinger like Robinson.

Vitali Klitschko didn't quit in his corner vs Lewis. The doctor stopped the fight on cuts with Klitschco leading on all scorecards in a fight that should have gone to the scorecards because fouls like face palming contributed to the cuts. The first 2 rights Lewis threw in the 3rd round (after badly losing the first 2 rounds and almost getting knocked out) were a thumb strike and a holding and hitting palm rake. Emmanuel Steward can be heard telling Lewis that Vitali was winning and to go out and foul Vitali. Lewis followed the advice immediately.

Lewis was an ATG Heavyweight Champion and Maxim was a run-of-the-mill 175-pound champ at best -- so there's no comparison there.

[klompton]

Nino Benvenuti fought in competitive national and international tournaments including the Olympic Games.. And had a better amateur record than Robinson.

Highly debateable. During Robinson's amateur career he was fighting a much more vibrant and competitive galaxy of talent than what Benvenuti was up against in Italy. Robinson also defeated several national champions from different countries or territories and at least one Olympian. To pretend that Benvenuti's record somehow dwarfs Robinson's at either amateur or pro is ridiculous. Benvenuti has a medal but this ignores the fact that Robinson likely would have competed in the 1940 Olympics and would have been heavily favored as he was touted internationally as the greatest prospect to ever come out of the amateur ranks. Furthermor you can see from films like Benvenuti-Neinast and Benvenuti-Dampc that even four and five years into his amateur career Benvenuti wasn't as developed a piece of fighting machinery as Robinsons was just two or so years into his against guys like Nonella, Ancona, and Valentine, all of whom were highly decorated amateurs who competed in national amateur competitions in the USA which at the time had the largest amateur boxing program of any country in the world. That doesn't even begin to mention Robinson coming out of nowhere as a total unknown to defeat Willie Pep as an amateur when Pep was an unbeaten, experienced amateur fighter who was considered a phenom and a sure future champion. Robinson's pro record shits all over Benvenutis in basically every area you can list. Depth, breadth, length, titles, quality of opposition, etc etc. There is no single area where Benvenuti can claim a better professional record unless you just count simple win/loss statistics which is pointless considering Benvenuti has at least a couple shady decisions on his record and didn't fight anywhere near as long as Robinson. Benvenuti fought for only 10 years. Robinson fought for 25 and suffered the vast majority of his defeates in latter portion of his career. After ten years as a pro Robinson had 1 loss. If you want to go by age Benvenuti retired at 33. At 33 Robinson had 3 losses, one of which came against a HOF LHW who he had dominated on points until the heat got him. The closes Benvenuti ever came to challenging a LHW was to lose to 40 year old Dick Tiger. Care to keep going?

[Counter-puncher]

Ownage

[Counter-puncher]

Robinson a 'brawling swinger'

[APerno]

Joey Maxim hardly ever knocked anybody out. The only recognizable name by the casual fan who appears on Maxim's KO record is Robinson -- who he stopped in 13 by intelligently pacing himself for the weather and telling Robinson "You can't punch Ray. You can't break popcorn."

I may have said this before to you, but I'll throw it at you (again) anyway.

Doc Kearns was pitching (promoting) a young Maxim to a group of newspaper men when he said something like: "look this kid has got it all, he's another Dempsey, albeit without the punch." This brought snickers from the reporters. After all what was Dempsey without his punch? Oh, right, Joey Maxim.

[Kalan]

I think Maxim was just a little more clever than Dempsey... He admitted to being "probably the worst athlete in Boxing" but he was tactical.

As they said about Chuck Wepner... "Joey Maxim may be slow -- but he can't punch."

But Dempsey had 2 assets... He was a big bomber -- and he could absorb bombs.. Maxim had a pretty good chin and easily absorbed everything Robinson threw

[keithmoonhangover]

For the most part he was fighting guys that a good boxer could fight every week of the year -- with no fear of a loss.. No Charley Burley's in there.

Pathetic. How can you call yourself a boxing fan? Klitschko and Joshua's records are filled with bad opponents, but you can't stop gushing about them. Hang your head in shame......... or, stop trolling.

[Kalan]

For the most part he was fighting guys that a good boxer could fight every week of the year -- with no fear of a loss.. No Charley Burley's in there.

Pathetic. How can you call yourself a boxing fan? Klitschko and Joshua's records are filled with bad opponents, but you can't stop gushing about them. Hang your head in shame......... or, stop trolling.

You’re aware of the top fighters Joshua beat, such as ATG Heavyweight Champion Wladimir Klitschko

How can you call yourself fair minded when you know Robinson was one of the worst cherry-pickers of all time??? ... AJ and Vitali fought the best.
You're aware AJ fought many undefeated Heavyweights with more fights than he had -- and beat ATG Heavyweight Champion Wladimir Klitschko. What ATG boxer-puncher did Robinson ever beat??? ... Take your time because you're never find the answer.

The following are a few of the many formidable Heavyweights who Vitali Klitschko completely dominated:

Tomaz Adamek was a 2-Division World Champion and 44-1. Vitali was the first man to knock him out.

Juan Carlos Gomez was 44-1 and a very slick southpaw boxer. Robinson never fought a good southpaw.

Danny Williams just stopped Mike Tyson before he was dominated and brutally stopped by Vitali K.

Corrie Sanders was Heavyweight Champion and 39-2.. He was brutally mugged by Vitali K.

Shannon Briggs was a 2-time Heavyweight Champion who was 2 years younger than Vitali.

Larry Donald beat Evander Holyfield with ease. Vitali is the only man to stop Donald in his entire career.

Ed Mahone was undefeated in 23 fights – a very easy KO win for Vitali K.

Vaughn Bean was 42-2 and was never stopped in his career of 51 fights by anyone but Vitali Klitschko.

Timo Hoffman was 22-0 and 6’8” X 253. Easily controlled and out-boxed by Vitali K.

Kirk Johnson had one defeat in 36 fights—a DQ loss. He was never stopped by anybody but Vtiali K.

Manuel Charr was undefeated number one contender at 21-0. Vitali stopped him at age 41

Chris Arreola was undefeated number one contender at 27-0. Vitali stopped him at 38

Odlanier Solis was an undefeated Olympic Gold Medal Winner. Vitali stopped him at 40

Kevin Johnson was undefeated in 23 fights and number one contender – a very slick boxer.

List the records of Robinson's top victims.. He was a great fighter, but he didn't fight many undefeated boys.

[Kalan]

Fact. Vitali was winning on all 3 cards when Lewis was declared the winner due to the damage he inflicted upon the Ukrainian's face.

Fact. Robinson was winning on all cards when he retired due to heat exhaustion that a vast majority of OBSERVERS believe was the reason for said retirement

Lewis was declared the winner because the corrupt referee didn't call foul blows Lewis inflicted on Klitschko... If it goes to the cards VK wins UTD

Robinson wasn't stopped by a doctor or ref... He quit on his own cuz Maxim paced himself better and wore Robinson out... He made Ray work.

It wasn't the only time Robinson was outsmarted... Ralph Jones was a clever and skilled infighter.. He beat the shiit out of Robinson.

[Controversial]

List the records of Robinson's top victims.. He was a great fighter, but he didn't fight many undefeated boys.

Different eras. Boxing in more modern times is all about keeping the 0, building up unbeaten records against the easiest opponents so you get a title shot. It wasn't like that in the 40s or 50s, only 8 divisions, guys fought multiple times a month, not 3 or 4 times a year, plus corruption and hometown decisions were rife. How many undefeated opponents did any of the greats of the past beat, guys like Pep, not many I bet.

[Kalan]

Yeah, but Pep was unbeaten for his first 70 fights... So unbeaten boys were around... Benvenuti went unbeaten for his first 65 and all 120 of his amateur fights... They certainly matched Robinson to keep him unbeaten forever as well.

[Kalan]

You're aware AJ fought many undefeated Heavyweights with more fights than he had

Erm actually he DIDN'T. He has faced 4 unbeaten fighters.

In his debut he faced an unbeaten fighter 8 - 0

In his 14th fight he faced Gary Cornish ( Gary Who ) 21 - 0

In his 15th fight he faced Dillian Whyte 16 - 0

In his 17th fight he faced Breazeale ALSO 17 - 0

Charles Martin was also undefeated, and had many more fights than Joshua... That's 5 undefeated fighters and that's many for somebody with 19 fights. That's like a guy with 200 fights facing 50 undefeated fighters -- which is never going to happen in the future history of the world.

Interestingly enough --- when he faces Parker, Ortiz, and Wilder they might possibly be 3 more undefeated Heavyweights.

[jas80s]

For the most part he was fighting guys that a good boxer could fight every week of the year -- with no fear of a loss.. No Charley Burley's in there.

Pathetic. How can you call yourself a boxing fan? Klitschko and Joshua's records are filled with bad opponents, but you can't stop gushing about them. Hang your head in shame......... or, stop trolling.

You’re aware of the top fighters Joshua beat, such as ATG Heavyweight Champion Wladimir Klitschko

How can you call yourself fair minded when you know Robinson was one of the worst cherry-pickers of all time??? ... AJ and Vitali fought the best.
You're aware AJ fought many undefeated Heavyweights with more fights than he had -- and beat ATG Heavyweight Champion Wladimir Klitschko. What ATG boxer-puncher did Robinson ever beat??? ... Take your time because you're never find the answer.

The following are a few of the many formidable Heavyweights who Vitali Klitschko completely dominated:

Tomaz Adamek was a 2-Division World Champion and 44-1. Vitali was the first man to knock him out.

Juan Carlos Gomez was 44-1 and a very slick southpaw boxer. Robinson never fought a good southpaw.

Danny Williams just stopped Mike Tyson before he was dominated and brutally stopped by Vitali K.

Corrie Sanders was Heavyweight Champion and 39-2.. He was brutally mugged by Vitali K.

Shannon Briggs was a 2-time Heavyweight Champion who was 2 years younger than Vitali.

Larry Donald beat Evander Holyfield with ease. Vitali is the only man to stop Donald in his entire career.

Ed Mahone was undefeated in 23 fights – a very easy KO win for Vitali K.

Vaughn Bean was 42-2 and was never stopped in his career of 51 fights by anyone but Vitali Klitschko.

Timo Hoffman was 22-0 and 6’8” X 253. Easily controlled and out-boxed by Vitali K.

Kirk Johnson had one defeat in 36 fights—a DQ loss. He was never stopped by anybody but Vtiali K.

Manuel Charr was undefeated number one contender at 21-0. Vitali stopped him at age 41

Chris Arreola was undefeated number one contender at 27-0. Vitali stopped him at 38

Odlanier Solis was an undefeated Olympic Gold Medal Winner. Vitali stopped him at 40

Kevin Johnson was undefeated in 23 fights and number one contender – a very slick boxer.

List the records of Robinson's top victims.. He was a great fighter, but he didn't fight many undefeated boys.

This may be my favorite post ever. Your willingness to spin facts to fit your narrative? This is spectacular!

How in the hell did you NOT go into PR?? Assuming you didn't that is......

[Controversial]

Yeah, but Pep was unbeaten for his first 70 fights... So unbeaten boys were around... .

Pep went 62 fights undefeated, not 70. However your original point was how many undefeated opponents SRR beat. If your using Pep as a comparison then -

In SRR first 62 fights he only beat one undefeated guy, Marty Servo who was 42-0-2
SRR had 22 wins over top 10 ranked opponents in those 62 fights and a win over a reigning world champ
SRR had 10 wins over fighters who are in the IBHOF in those 62 fights.

In Peps first 62 fights he beat two undefeated guys, Ruby Garcia who was 5-0-2 and Augie Almeda who was 1-0
Pep had 3 wins over top 10 ranked opponents in those 62 fights and he won the title.
Pep had 1 win over a fighter who is in the IBHOF in those 62 fights.

Looks like SRR was matched far tougher than Pep was.