The 25 Greatest Pound per Pound Latin Boxers of All-Time

[elmersalsa]

elmer like Pedroza therefore Pedroza deserves all those dubious deciisons he got. If elmer likes a guy that is all there is to it for him.

I guess the Lockridge and Haugen fights should not count for Chavez since they weren't in the US and it was for Whitaker's title. I think that LaPorte should count since LaPorte was as much as from New York as Lockridge was from New Jersey. Laporte moved to New York and fought there a ton of times before fighting Chavez.

Still don't see how we can count McGuigan for Pedroza. elmer keeps acting like being in the same country is all that matters.
McGuigan was from Ireland. The fight was in England. Those are two different countries.

That makes it 10 for Chavez and Pedroza and 9 for Pedroza.
Arguello had 9 as well and tied with Pedroza. (Leonard Hernadez, Royal Kobayshi, Arturo Leon, Bobby Chacon, Ruben Castillo, Ray Mancini, Roberto Elizondo, James Busceme, Andy Ganigan)
Lennox Lewis has 9 and is therefore tied with Pedroza. However elmer doesn't like Lewis so apparently is ignoring him.

The great Alexis Arguello does not matches the great Eusebio Pedroza's feat of defending the crown in opponents' backyards. You're adding all Arguello's fights from different weight classes. If that's the case, then the record for most world title defenses AT ANY WEIGHT is not held by the great Joe Louis, who had 25, but the great Julio Cesar Chavez who had 31 world title wins from Jr lightweight to Jr welterweight. That's not what we're talking about.

Secondly, Lennox Lewis didn't top Pedroza's record, either. He had 8 title defenses on opponents' backyards. That is if you want to call Las Vegas a backyard for an American boxer. Las Vegas is somewhat a neutral site. But, even if you add Vegas in there, Lewis doesn't top Pedroza's record.

I will show a table of most world title defenses in opponents' backyards by champion. No one got more than Eusebio Pedroza.

Third, Northern Ireland belongs to the United Kingdom. The whole area is called The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. The United Kingdom consists of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. So, London, England is Barry McGuigan's backyard. As a matter of fact, there were 26,000 hollering Brits and Northern Irish rooting for McGuigan. It was crazy. It was Pedroza's BIGGEST PAYDAY ($1,000,000 dollars). They certainly weren't rooting for Pedroza. And certainly was not a neutral site.

[elmersalsa]

Yeah, in a long history of dumb poo, calling the entire United States home field is insane. You could be fighting 45 minutes from your home on enemy turf.

It even makes Pedroza's record more remarkable. He fought Rocky Lockridge in McAfee, NJ. Lockridge's backyard. He fought Bernard Taylor in Charlotte, NC which was Taylor's backyard.

The great Julio Cesar Chavez didn't do it that way. Even though the opponent was American, he never defended the crown in the American boxer hometown or backyard. And even if I am calling Las Vegas, NV home for the American boxer, even if that is not his real backyard, STILL, doesn't matched Pedtoza's record. An amazing feat for any world champion.

I was a big Pedroza fan, he was fortunate to get both decisions against Lockridge. Undermines your point. You said that anywhere in America would constitute an Americans backyard. Did you speak out of turn?

Pedroza won that fight OUTRIGHT both times that he fought Rocky Lockridge. He came from behind and won deservedly so. Now, was it a close fight? Yes it was. That's a close fight. Not Duran vs Leonard I were the media implied that it wad close. But, let's not talk about that fight. That's not the subject.

If you say that Las Vegas, NV is a neutral site for a foreign boxer fighting an American, fine. Let's say Las Vegas is an American boxer's backyard. Still, no boxer matches Pedroza's record. And if is not an American boxer's backyard but a neutral site, then it makes Pedroza's record more remarkable. Ten of his 20 title defenses were in someone's backyard, where the whole crowd were rooting for the local guy. Pedroza defended successfully 9 times! Nine times he came out of hostile environment with the crown. The only time he lost it was in London, England with Barry McGuigan.

I count McAfee, NJ a backyard for Rocky Lockridge. That was Lockridge's hometown of NJ state for his boxing career.

I count Charlotte, NC Bernard Taylor's backyard. The whole crowd was rooting for him against Pedroza. That's what I meant.

If there's a boxer that fought in opponents' backyards more than Pedroza for the world championship I would like to know.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

[Ambling Alp II]

This is getting hilarious.
Now he doesn't count Chavez because the titles were in different weight classes! Funny he didn't mention that earlier.
Guess that way doesn't have to count Arguello either.

Liked the line "That was Lockridge's hometown of NJ state for his boxing career."

He is still ignoring Lennox Lewis.

Still won't say why McGuigan counts when the fight was not in the country that McGuigan was from.

[elmersalsa]

This is getting hilarious.
Now he doesn't count Chavez because the titles were in different weight classes! Funny he didn't mention that earlier.
Guess that way we don't have to count Arguello either.

Liked the line "That was Lockridge's hometown of NJ state for his boxing career."

He is still ignoring Lennox Lewis.

Still won't say why McGuigan counts when the fight was not in the country that McGuigan was from.
The hostile environment line is where is off as well. Just because the fight is in the other guys country does not automatically make it an hostile environment. Some of these opponents were not well known and had little fan base. The crowd was pretty quiet in some of these title defenses.

I would argue that Pedroza had as many fights in a hostile environment where the crowd was with him as when they were against him. He had 6 defenses in the city where he was from. Not just the country, or the state, but the actual city.

Probably is funny because you don't know what you are talking about. Probably you need to study geography or something. It's clear as water. Even if you put Chavez' overall defenses in opponents backyards vs Pedroza's still does come short. Not even Lennox Lewis matches Pedroza's record. It's remarkable what he did. He fought in 10 places wher he defended the crown where the whole crowd was against him.

[Ambling Alp II]

I think you are the one with geography problems. Ireland is not the same country as England. Therefore the McGuigan fight doesn't count. Therefore Pedroza only had 9.
Lewis, Chavez, and Arguello all had at least that many.
And no the entire crowd was not against Pedroza in these fights. That is where you are making another faulty assumption. Just because he fights in another country doesn't mean everyone is against him. Americans have no trouble rooting against for a foreigner or against an American. Or they can be neutral.

[Seamus]

The crowd at McGuigan v Pedroza was overwhelmingly for McGuigan, but how many times have fights in LA been that way for a fighter from Mexico.

[elmersalsa]

I think you are the one with geography problems. Ireland is not the same country as England. Therefore the McGuigan fight doesn't count. Therefore Pedroza only had 9.
Lewis, Chavez, and Arguello all had at least that many.
And no the entire crowd was not against Pedroza in these fights. That is where you are making another faulty assumption. Just because he fights in another country doesn't mean everyone is against him. Americans have no trouble rooting against for a foreigner or against an American. Or they can be neutral.

And again, I proved that you don't know crap about geography. Go back to school to learn that subject, bro. You're looking RIDICULOUS right now.

I have never said that Ireland is the same country as England. I said that Northern Ireland is in the area of the United Kingdom. The whole area official name is called The United Kingdom and Northern Ireland, which consists of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. So, the Barry McGuigan DOES COUNT. United Kingdom is four countries in one, but with separate government rules and policies. Is kind of like the United States of America. Each of the 50 states in the US have their own rules and regulations, but they all form America.

See, you want it to look convenient for you for other boxers to have additional title defenses in other weight classes to match Eusebio's but THEY STILL COME UP SHORT. If that is the case, why you don't rate the great Julio Cesar Chavez' overall defenses against the great Joe Louis? He got more than Louis if you combine all those title defenses from Jr lightweight to Jr welterweight. And that's what WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT. We are talking about one world title held by a champion defending it in someone else's backyard. None of them got it like Pedroza's. ABSOLUTELY NO CHAMPION IN HISTORY GOT IT. Let's look it up.

The great Eusebio Pedroza, the Panamanian Scorpion, had 20 title defenses in which 10 were in opponents' backyards which were hostile environments. Every ten of them wanted THE LOCAL GUY to win. Only you cannot see that, I guess. No other champion had that much title defenses in someone else's backyard. Even if you want to add different weight classes. It doesn't come close.

[Kalan]

Pretty sure the people on the east coast knew that Valero was about to be defeated in his next outing....which is why he was set up and incarcerated, as not to embarrass the Venezuelan leaders.

as it is, his record leads people such as K to assume many imaginary things about his skill set.

But for the record, the greatest fighters of all time are currently in a four way tie: a tie that can never be mathematically resolved...or intellectually questioned.

FMJr...
Edwin Valero
Rocky Marciano
Joe Calzaghe
Sven Ottke

You have to watch Valero's fights with an eye to balance, stance, footwork, range, deception, accuracy, defense, weapons, combinations, willingness to engage, propensity to clinch, push, lean, elbow, headbutt, stall, run, and commit other fouls... can he attack the body?.. what about his stopping power?.. 2-Division World Champions with perfect W/L and KO records aren't created in the absence of ability... Where were other ATG boxers at after 27 fights?

[Counter-puncher]

You have to watch Valero's fights with an eye to... can he attack the body?..

well, thats a good start.

he hardly ever threw to the body, well done

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Any evaluation of Valero starts with his chin pointing at the sky. Si.eone like Laporte or lockridge would turn out his lights in a hurry. He had above average power, that's it.

[Tomasino]

I think you are the one with geography problems. Ireland is not the same country as England. Therefore the McGuigan fight doesn't count. Therefore Pedroza only had 9.
Lewis, Chavez, and Arguello all had at least that many.
And no the entire crowd was not against Pedroza in these fights. That is where you are making another faulty assumption. Just because he fights in another country doesn't mean everyone is against him. Americans have no trouble rooting against for a foreigner or against an American. Or they can be neutral.

And again, I proved that you don't know crap about geography. Go back to school to learn that subject, bro. You're looking RIDICULOUS right now.

I have never said that Ireland is the same country as England. I said that Northern Ireland is in the area of the United Kingdom. The whole area official name is called The United Kingdom and Northern Ireland, which consists of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. So, the Barry McGuigan DOES COUNT. United Kingdom is four countries in one, but with separate government rules and policies. Is kind of like the United States of America. Each of the 50 states in the US have their own rules and regulations, but they all form America.

See, you want it to look convenient for you for other boxers to have additional title defenses in other weight classes to match Eusebio's but THEY STILL COME UP SHORT. If that is the case, why you don't rate the great Julio Cesar Chavez' overall defenses against the great Joe Louis? He got more than Louis if you combine all those title defenses from Jr lightweight to Jr welterweight. And that's what WE ARE NOT TALKING ABOUT. We are talking about one world title held by a champion defending it in someone else's backyard. None of them got it like Pedroza's. ABSOLUTELY NO CHAMPION IN HISTORY GOT IT. Let's look it up.

The great Eusebio Pedroza, the Panamanian Scorpion, had 20 title defenses in which 10 were in opponents' backyards which were hostile environments. Every ten of them wanted THE LOCAL GUY to win. Only you cannot see that, I guess. No other champion had that much title defenses in someone else's backyard. Even if you want to add different weight classes. It doesn't come close.

Were you hyperventilating during this post Elmo?

[Ambling Alp II]

Because he likes Pedroza. Simple as that. You challenge someone he likes and often gets all crazy and who knows what he will come up with to defend him.

Now he changing the goalpost as he often does. He never said anything about the champions having titles in different weight classes at the beginning. He changed that when it was pointed out that Arguello and Chavez has so many.

He also used the criteria as the same country previously but was counting McGuigan. When it was pointed out that London and Ireland are in fact two different countries, he now is saying that it's the same area; the United Kingdom! I like most people know Ireland is part of the United Kingdom, but now acts as if I didn't know that. I was simply using his own criteria.

Well if we are going the the area, where does that end. Mexico and Canada are part of North America. Do we count all of those as the same area?

Common sense would tell you can't simply go by where the fight was at if you are talking bout a hostile environment. As Seamus alluded to, in Los Angeles for example, Mexican fighters often have the crowd behind them more than a non-hispanic fighter form the United States.

[Counter-puncher]

as wrong as elmo may sometimes be, you're equally wrong in suggesting the Pedrosa fight- where McGuigan was roared on by 20,000+ irishmen and in an area of London, Shepherd's Bush, known for a large population of Irish descent- was anything less than an 'away' fight for Pedrosa and a 'home' one for McGuigan. nobody in Britain would consider that anything other than a home fight for McGuigan, if you're arguing that then you're arguing in a rather elmoesque manner is the only way I can put it.

"The approaches to Queen’s Park Rangers’ stadium, where Barry McGuigan challenged the Panamanian Eusebio Pedroza for the WBA featherweight championship, resembled the King’s Hall on a big fight night. Irish accents were everywhere, green was the dominant colour — even Ireland’s Saturday Night, with its special preview of the contest, was on sale at street corners and the entrances to the famous London football ground"

[Ambling Alp II]

I totally agree that the McGuigan fight was pro-McGuigan and a "hostile environment" for Pedroza. I was just using elmers own criteria for what constitutes someones "backyard". He said earlier it was the country that the fight takes place in. Obviously McGuigan was not technically fighting in his own country so it should not count by using his criteria.

I think the "backyard/hostile environment" argument has to have a lot more to it than just the country where the fight took place, which is what he was originally saying. You can see that if you go further back in the thread. He is now changing the criteria just like he is by saying Arguello's defenses don't count because they were in different weight classes. Anything to make his guy look better.

[Kalan]

You have to watch Valero's fights with an eye to... can he attack the body?..

well, thats a good start.

he hardly ever threw to the body, well done

He did... Muhammad Ali didn't... Wladimir Klitschko didn't... Joey Maxim didn't... a lot of guys didn't.. Valero was an all-around skills guy.

[Counter-puncher]

Get me some footage and prove me wrong, I saw Valero fight and he was no bodypuncher. You're FOS I dare you prove me wrong

[elmersalsa]

These top 25 Latin guys are the cream of the crop. Each one of them were UNIQUE IN THEIR OWN WAY. What a great selection of fighters. Especially, in the 1970s decade when Latin boxing was at its peak.

These are the only Latin boxers to win The Ring Fighter of the Year Award that I can remember right now:

Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles (1969)
Carlos Monzon (1972)
Carlos Zarate (1977)
Salvador Sanchez (1981)
Julio Cesar Chavez (1990)
Oscar De La Hoya (1995)
Paulie Ayala (1999)
Felix "Tito" Trinidad (2000)

[elmersalsa]

Also Michael Carbajal in 1993 and Sergio Martinez of Argentina via Spain in 2010 were also The Ring Fighter of the Year winners.

I believe the great Wilfredo Gomez or Roberto Duran should have won the award in 1978. For some dubious reason, none of the two won the award.

[Ambling Alp II]

The great Panama Al Brown became the first Hispanic/Latin fighter to ever capture a world title in 1929. Since the Panamanian great historical feat, Latin America has produced an unbelievable and unforgettable crop of fighters. The great Wilfred Benitez of Puerto Rico became the youngest world champion in history at age 17. Another great, Julio Cesar Chavez, of Mexico won more world championship bouts than any boxer in professional ranks. He won 31 title fights and fought in 34 that mattered. He also won 87 in a row from beginning of career. All those numbers are world records in boxing, and probably will never be broken. After Brown's achievement, Latin fighters didn't do much. Baby Arizmendi of Mexico made noise when he fought the great Henry Armstrong 5 times, winning the first two bouts in the 1930s. In that same decade, extraordinary Cuban Kid Chocolate was so fast with his fists. Two-time world bantamweight champion, Manuel Ortiz of California dominated the 1940s.

In the 1950s and 60s, a small wave of great fighters came into the scene: Kid Gavilan (Cuba), who fought and entertained us with his trademark bolo punch in American TV audiences at least 34 times. Dazzling Puerto Rican Carlos Ortiz was a lightweight dandy. Miami based Cuban, Luis Manuel Rodriguez, made headlines fighting the great Emile Griffith of U.S. Virgin Islands 4 times. He beat a great handful of welterweight and middleweight contenders, even though his title reign was short. Fast handed Panamanian Ismael Laguna was a beautiful boxer and twice lightweight king. Pascual Perez of Argentina was a terror at flyweight even though he turned pro at 26 after winning a gold medal in the 1948 Olympic games in London. He held the flyweight crown for 6 years. Eder Jofre of Brazil was his country's first world champion. And he was a bad ass! And of course, we cannot forget El Zurdo de Oro, the great Mexican Vicente Saldivar! An unbeatable featherweight champion in the 1960s that gave us many thrills. And who did he beat to become champ? Cuban warrior Sugar Ramos.

All could have ended there for Latin boxing, but not. The best was yet to come. Since 1969, when the great Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles of Cuba via Mexico became the first Latino to win The Ring Fighter of the Year Award, Latin America invaded and dominated the weight classes below heavyweight with flavor, guts, will, skill and flair never seen before or since. From 1969 to about 1982, Latin boxers dominated big! It was the GOLDEN ERA OF THE LATIN INVASION CONNECTION. American boxing below the heavyweights was an afterthought. By 1976, there were only two Americans as world champions: Danny Lopez at featherweight and of course, at heavyweight, the great Muhammad Ali who was making most of the boxing headlines. We saw great champions like Mexicans Ruben Olivares, Miguel Canto, Chucho Castillo, Rodolfo "Gato" Gonzalez, Carlos Zarate, Pipino Cuevas, and the unforgettable Salvador Sanchez. In Argentina, we had Carlos Monzon, Nicolino Locche and Victor Galindez. Alexis Arguello in Nicaragua. Antonio Cervantes and Rodrigo "Rocky" Valdez in Colombia. Esteban De Jesus, Hector "Macho" Camacho, Edwin "Chapo" Rosario, and of course, Benitez and Gomez in Puerto Rico. Americans Bobby Chacon, Raul Rojas and Carlos Palomino. Eusebio Pedroza of Panama. And of course, his countryman, the incredible Roberto Duran, who was probably boxing's pound per pound best fighter of that time frame.

And after that, in the new millennium, more Latin boxers came, and made much more money. American Oscar De La Hoya of California was boxing's Golden Boy and pay per view top superstar for a decade and a half. Mexican greats like Marco Antonio Barrera and Erik Morales gave us fistic wars between them. Their underrated countryman, Juan Manuel Marquez was also in the mix, and fought the great superstar Manny Pacquiao of the Philippines 4 times! And the little giant Ricardo "Finito" Lopez, is the best strawweight boxer of all times. American flyweight Michael Carbajal of Arizona gave us the attention for the little men. And Puerto Rico's superstar Felix "Tito" Trinidad was the island's most beloved fighter ever. This is the history of Latin American boxing. Huge contributions these boxers made to the history of the sport. These to me, are the top 25 best boxers that Latin America had offered so far:

1. Roberto Duran (Panama)
2. Carlos Monzon (Argentina)
3. Julio Cesar Chavez (Mexico)
4. Eder Jofre (Brazil)
5. Alexis Arguello (Nicaragua)
6. Pascual Perez (Argentina)
7. Panama Al Brown (Panama)
8. Kid Gavilan (Panama)
9. Kid Chocolate (Cuba)
10. Salvador Sanchez (Mexico)
11. Ruben Olivares (Mexico)
12. Jose "Mantequilla" Napoles (Cuba)
13. Wilfredo Gomez (Puerto Rico)
14. Carlos Zarate (Mexico)
15. Carlos Ortiz (Puerto Rico)
16. Manuel Ortiz (USA)
17. Juan Manuel Marquez (Mexico)
18. Wilfred Benitez (Puerto Rico)
19. Luis Manuel Rodriguez (Cuba)
20. Miguel Canto (Mexico)
21. Marco Antonio Barrera (Mexico)
22. Erik "El Terrible" Morales (Mexico)
23. Ricardo "Finito" Lopez (Mexico)
24. Eusebio Pedroza (Panama)
25. Vicente Saldivar (Mexico)

Honorary mention:
Oscar De La Hoya (USA)
Felix "Tito" Trinidad (Puerto Rico)
Ismael Laguna (Panama)
Hector. "Macho" Camacho (Puerto Rico)
Victor Galindez (Argentina)
Antonio Cervantes (Colombia)
Edwin " Chapo" Rosario (Puerto Rico)
Baby Arizmendy (Mexico)
Pipino Cuevas (Mexico)
Carlos Palomino (USA)
Wilfredo Vazquez (Puerto Rico)
Esteban Dejesus (Puerto Rico)
Bobby Chacon (USA)
Michael Carbajal (USA)
Humberto "Chiquita" Gonzalez (Mexico)
Sugar Ramos (Cuba)

A well put together list of Boxers that any up and coming fighter should study or read up on. I cannot argue that many of these men belong on the top 25 latin boxers list. The order in which they are placed of course is arguable as it ultimately is an opinion. A solid analysis though Elmersalsa. I would say Duran is definitely top 3. As for Kid Gavilan I feel he is a little too low on the list as well as Ricardo "Finito" Lopez. I might move down Alexis Arguello a notch or two and Wilfredo Gomez a few notches. Still Alexis Arguello definitely belongs on the list and Wilfredo Gomez is at least a definitive top 30 latin fighter. He kind of caught an older battle worn Olivares and Zarate. I might move Marco Antonio Barrera a notch down also, his most popular victory is against Naseem Hamed who never was the same after his defeat. Also Vicente Saldivar might be a little too low. I might move up MIchael Carbajal and the Hector "Macho" Camacho who at his peak was a fleet footed southpaw who could give a lot of people trouble, he just happened to run into you know who hah.

I have no major problems with the list either. You certainly can make a good case for all of guys in the Top 25 to be there. Obviously there is going to be disagreement between people as to where they are rated. Personally, I think Benitez and Rodriguez are several spots too low. I am fine where Lopez is given his competition compared to the others. Saldivar should also be much higher but everyone always rates him too low. Arguello should not be moved down.

As for the Honorable Mention, they all deserve to be there. DLH is better than all of them but obviously was not going to make elmers Top 25. There are probably some guys we are all overlooking that could be Honorable Mention.

[Seamus]

Arizmendi belongs in the top 25.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Arizmendi belongs in the top 25.

Top 15 I'd say. Definitely higher than Perez.

[elmersalsa]

The great Argentinian Pascual Perez was a beast at flyweight.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

That settles it.

[elmersalsa]

That settles it.

Settles what?