Enlightened-One wrote:candyslim wrote:@EO:
1. Kalan has already explained how the consumption of horse meat could explain the positive result in 2015. This of course is not the only possible explanation but even if was guilty then it doesn't necessarily mean he's guilty this time.
2. The banned diuretics are present in the medication he is taking.
I'm reversing the order for reasons which should become apparent:
4. No he did not disclose his medical condition probably because he was concerned about being allowed to participate in a title fight while suffering from hypertension. In the light of the WBC's recent comments it would seem he was right to be concerned.
3.I said in an earlier post on this thread that he foolishly did not disclose his medication however if he had declared his medication that would have been tantamount to admitting his condition which may have led to his disqualification from fighting for health reasons.
5. He obviously wouldn't request an exemption for a medication he hadn't admitted to taking.
Hopefully you will now attempt to address the anomalies that have been raised by the "conspiracy theorists" although this will require a little imagination, speculation and detective work. For all your admirable prowess EO I think that will take you way out of your comfort zone. No offense but as you have stated many times you like to deal with only the facts. The problem is of course what are presented as facts may not be so and even when they are, do not always tell the full story.
How many fighters openly admit that they tried to cheat when they tested positive for banned substances?
cs: Very few
Why are the people that frequent this forum aggressively defending Luis Ortiz whilst attacking Alexander Povetkin with equal vigour, when both of these fighters have tested positive twice for banned substances?
cs: Not me. My mind is open but I strongly suspect both fighters may have been stitched up as we say over here. I fully accept it aint necessarily so
Creatively fabricating unsubstantiated excuses to explain the reason(s) why certain favoured fighters tested positive for banned substances does not certify their innocence.
cs: Of course it doesn't but one should consider other possibilities to the one the salesman is pushing, no?
Here’s a list of points that cannot possibly be refuted:
• Ortiz has already received a suspension in 2015 due to testing positive for banned substances
cs: He may well have been guilty but an alternative explanation has not been ruled out. If you have a record you are probably more vulnerable to those who might exploit public mistrust of your integrity.
• Ortiz admitted to consuming banned substances during his training camp for the Wilder fight
cs: Present in his medication which doesn't mean he was snow white but he was part of the VADA programme and there were no previous reported infractions. Why would he risk everything by doping when he knows he wouldn't fool VADA. How did he pass their tests for a whole year, did he recommence doping in the run up to the fight?
• Ortiz failed to disclose the drugs that he was prescribed
cs: Understandable wouldn't you say? He is a world class heavyweight with the chance to make millions in the twilight of his career. You expect him to hope the WBC are sympathetic to his high blood-pressure and to tell them all about it? He isn't going to make that kind of money doing anything else.
• Ortiz failed to disclose his health justification for consuming banned substances
cs: Already discussed. He wouldn't want to risk being canned on medical grounds.
• Ortiz failed to request an exemption to allow himself to continue taking those technically banned substances
cs: If he can't risk admitting a need to take the medication, he's hardly likely to request an exemption thereby drawing attention to his problem.
• Ortiz has not yet proven the existence of a medical condition to justify his consumption of the banned substances
cs: He had his doctor's prescription but I fully accept that is not conclusive.
These are the facts, which have already been co-signed by the WBC, VADA and Team Ortiz.
Therefore, Luis Ortiz deserves to be suspended, regardless as to whether he’s a drug cheat or not, because he hasn’t followed procedure.
cs: Jesus EO cut the guy some slack. He's just lost everything, and all he may have done wrong is to try to hide a health problem which was likely to fukc up his entire world if he disclosed it.
The rules are there for a reason. They’re supposed to protect the fighters and ensure a level playing field.
cs: Emphasis on supposed to. In reality rules are often exploited by clever bastards in pursuit of their own agenda.
There are no excuses for any fighter to ignore the rules stipulated by VADA and the WBC, because drug cheats and people possessing potentially severe medical problems should not be competing inside the ring.
cs: I suggest if you had a final chance to get financially set up for life you might be inclined to side step the one about disclosing your medical history.
If the Cuban genuinely has medical justification for consuming banned substances, then he shouldn’t be allowed to step foot inside the ring with Wilder without having a health check performed by a certified medical practitioner approved by the WBC.
cs: Like I said in his shoes it may look a little less black and white.
Of course, it’s entirely possible that every single objective truth of reality in relation to this particular situation may not have been publicly disclosed, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that slanderous accusations of corruption are entirely justified.
cs: Well I've not accused anyone of corruption unless considering the possibility constitutes slander. I do think speculation about what strikes me as extremely peculiar and convenient is justified in fact necessary.
People might say that “there’s no smoke without fire”, by claiming something “fishy” must be going on, due to the three fighters that tested positive for banned substances whilst in the midst of their training camp to face Wilder. But in reality, the so-called “smoke” cannot be “seen”, no “sound” can be “heard”, its “aroma” cannot be detected in the “air” and nor can anyone sense the “heat” from the alleged “fire”.
cs: That's just the way they like it EO. Don't rock the boat. Don't ask questions about what doesn't add up. Don't question the official explanation.
