Sky Sports News POLL: Is Anthony Joshua Britain's greatest ever heavyweight?

Enlightened-One
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Re: Sky Sports News POLL: Is Anthony Joshua Britain's greatest ever heavyweight?

Post by Enlightened-One »

candyslim wrote:@ EO I always felt that Frank Bruno was like an answer to my personal prayers. Weened on a diet of the very capable but despairingly frustrating Joe Bugner, I used to look at Earnie Shavers and wish that the Gods of boxing would give we Brits a heavyweight who was exciting, someone who would let their hands go, someone who had knockout power. They could be flawed and vulnerable I wasn't asking for a miracle ... and then we got dear lovable big-hearted Frank. There was a lot of worry about his myopia and I was fretting about whether he'd be granted a license. I swotted up on the latest corrective procedures like 'radial keratotomy' only available in Moscow or Caracas.

Just giving you an idea of how much Frank meant to me personally as a boxing fan, so believe me when I say I feel extremely disloyal for even asking the question but what makes you say that AJ is behind Frank on the imaginery ladder of great British heavyweights?
Frank’s contribution to boxing was enormous and talent-wise, he wasn’t far behind Lennox Lewis (as we witnessed in their highly competitive fight), he was more of a mainstream celebrity than AJ currently is and there was also a time in the UK where he almost single-handily helped keep the sport in the media spotlight.

In terms of the UK, more than 20m viewers used to regularly tune in to watch his bouts, during an era when there weren’t any other British heavyweights on the world scene.

I also believed that there was a point in time when Bruno was competing, where the talent pool of his heavyweights peers was far deeper than what we see today.

Unfortunately for AJ, he only gained mainstream exposure due to the Olympics, but the fact that around only 1m people get to see him compete live (due to appearing on PPV’s), means that he cannot possibly be considered a bigger name than Frank was during his heyday.

At this point in time, Joshua’s legacy is almost exclusively reliant on his victory over Wladimir Klitschko.

A man that was 41 years of age, was comfortably defeated in previous outing, was considered injury prone and hadn't delivered a truly impressive performance for almost 2 ½ years.

For sure, Klitschko performed admirably against Joshua, it was not only the most exciting performance of his career, but for heavyweight boxing in general for the last decade. However, Joshua didn’t face the very best version of Wladimir. And the history books will reflect that narrative.

From a purely historical contribution perspective, much akin to Arturo Gatti’s perceived “greatness”, in my mind, Bruno is currently a “greater” fighter than AJ, though the discrepancy between their legacies is trivial and Joshua probably only needs one more signature win over the likes of an opponent like Parker, Wilder or Haye to surpass Frank’s overall accomplishments.

I expect some people to disagree with me, because they probably don’t rate Frank at all (ability-wise), but his “greatness” (in terms of historical contribution to boxing), seems slightly superior than AJ’s currently is.
Ossyrules
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Re: Sky Sports News POLL: Is Anthony Joshua Britain's greatest ever heavyweight?

Post by Ossyrules »

I actually think Frank Bruno gets an unfair general opinion from most people, he’s a lot better than people give him credit for.

Frank Bruno is the Klitschko era is a big player in the division imo
ewenhay
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Re: Sky Sports News POLL: Is Anthony Joshua Britain's greatest ever heavyweight?

Post by ewenhay »

Frank would definitely be competitive in this era and in the Klitschko era. To be fair to Frank he only really lost to the elite in his era, Tyson, Lewis and an underrated Witherspoon.
candyslim
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Re: Sky Sports News POLL: Is Anthony Joshua Britain's greatest ever heavyweight?

Post by candyslim »

Frank had very good basic skills, and an excellent jab, but those impressive looking muscles did him few favours. He was very stiff and lacking fluidity, but worse was their effect on his stamina. As he tired his resilience to punches suffered although you wouldn't ever call him chinny. I'll not forget the alarm I felt first time I saw him buzzed by the equally muscular far less talented ex-jailbird, Floyd "Jumbo" Cummings. He appeared to be comfortably ahead of James "Bonecrusher" Smith and Tim Witherspoon before it all went tits-up.

You make a good case for him EO and I wouldn't dispute much of what you say, but we always knew as good as Frank was, he was never quite good enough, and although he won a championship belt and I was delighted for him, i never thought of him a genuine world champion, decent contender no doubt.

I don't have those doubts about Joshua's ability. He is already a worthy champion and he's only going to get better. I've an idea we'll have a better idea about how great he is / will be, in a year or two.
Last edited by candyslim on 27 Oct 2017, 13:42, edited 1 time in total.
jamamb
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Re: Sky Sports News POLL: Is Anthony Joshua Britain's greatest ever heavyweight?

Post by jamamb »

well aj at 27 is already 254, so hes pretty big :lol:
polecateddy
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Re: Sky Sports News POLL: Is Anthony Joshua Britain's greatest ever heavyweight?

Post by polecateddy »

At 42 I've seen the range of decent British heavyweights. My take is Frank Bruno at 16 and a half stone, was a lot quicker and more agile than the 17 and a half version who won the title, but looked a bit slow and predictable. I think he lacked speed, and tellingly never actually scored a knock-down in any of his world title fights. I could see him coming 2nd best against the more talented Joshua. Hide and Akinwande were a bit more flash in the pan and flawed. Dangerous on their best nights. Akinwande did improve with time, but I imagine AJ would have worn him down in the middle rounds in a similar way to Lewis managed. (I know it was a disq win, but Akinwande was knackered!) Hide clearly lacked a chin to cope. Lewis at his peak would I think at present know too much, and could well have schooled AJ. I think a peak Lewis could stop the current version of Joshua in around 5.
Ossyrules
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Re: Sky Sports News POLL: Is Anthony Joshua Britain's greatest ever heavyweight?

Post by Ossyrules »

candyslim wrote:Frank had very good basic skills, and an excellent jab, but those impressive looking muscles did him few favours. He was very stiff and lacking fluidity, but worse was their effect on his stamina. As he tired his resilience to punches suffered although you wouldn't ever call him chinny. I'll not forget the alarm I felt first time I saw him buzzed by the equally muscular far less talented ex-jailbird, Floyd "Jumbo" Cummings. He appeared to be comfortably ahead of James "Bonecrusher" Smith and Tim Witherspoon before it all went tits-up.

You make a good case for him EO and I wouldn't dispute much of what you say, but we always knew as good as Frank was, he was never quite good enough, and although he won a championship belt and I was delighted for him, i never thought of him a genuine world champion, decent contender no doubt.

I don't have those doubts about Joshua's ability. He is already a worthy champion and he's only going to get better. I've an idea we'll have a better idea about how great he is / will be, in a year or two.
Contender in his era I agree, his era was stronger than today though.

If we consider Dillian Whyte a contender now, Bruno clearly would wreck him. Bruno would be a nailed on alphabet holder this era
polecateddy
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Heavyweight

Re: Sky Sports News POLL: Is Anthony Joshua Britain's greatest ever heavyweight?

Post by polecateddy »

Ossyrules wrote:
candyslim wrote:Frank had very good basic skills, and an excellent jab, but those impressive looking muscles did him few favours. He was very stiff and lacking fluidity, but worse was their effect on his stamina. As he tired his resilience to punches suffered although you wouldn't ever call him chinny. I'll not forget the alarm I felt first time I saw him buzzed by the equally muscular far less talented ex-jailbird, Floyd "Jumbo" Cummings. He appeared to be comfortably ahead of James "Bonecrusher" Smith and Tim Witherspoon before it all went tits-up.

You make a good case for him EO and I wouldn't dispute much of what you say, but we always knew as good as Frank was, he was never quite good enough, and although he won a championship belt and I was delighted for him, i never thought of him a genuine world champion, decent contender no doubt.

I don't have those doubts about Joshua's ability. He is already a worthy champion and he's only going to get better. I've an idea we'll have a better idea about how great he is / will be, in a year or two.
Contender in his era I agree, his era was stronger than today though.

If we consider Dillian Whyte a contender now, Bruno clearly would wreck him. Bruno would be a nailed on alphabet holder this era
It's a shame in a way that the big bill, where Herbie Hide was matched against Tommy Morrison, and Bruno was down to face Ray Mercer fell through due to lack of funding. We'd have more data to evaluate them with.
lazboy
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Re: Sky Sports News POLL: Is Anthony Joshua Britain's greatest ever heavyweight?

Post by lazboy »

Lennox Lewis would have put a beating on A.J. Round 7 or 8 cold KO.
ThereByTheGrace
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Re: Sky Sports News POLL: Is Anthony Joshua Britain's greatest ever heavyweight?

Post by ThereByTheGrace »

lazboy wrote:Lennox Lewis would have put a beating on A.J. Round 7 or 8 cold KO.
Yep, Bruno would have beat him as well.
jamamb
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Re: Sky Sports News POLL: Is Anthony Joshua Britain's greatest ever heavyweight?

Post by jamamb »

yes, prime lennox is different class to aj now, although remember aj has only been a pro for 4 years.
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