Wills-Weinert - tale of the tape

[APerno]

I never saw Wills numbers before. - This fight was July of 1925 with Wills winning by a 2nd round KO (at the Polo Grounds).

[Kalan]

So??? ... It would have been a little different if he were facing Jack Dempsey -- who was about the same weight but had 3 X the firepower.

[APerno]

So??? ... It would have been a little different if he were facing Jack Dempsey -- who was about the same weight but had 3 X the firepower.

No "so" - I literally meant I had never countered Wills measurements before. Wasn't trying to make a point.

[scorpio83]

APerno, I checked Charley Weinert's file at this website that he stood 5'11" not 6'2 1/2" like in this tale of the tape with Harry Wills. For Harry Wills, I believe that Wills is taller than 6'2" because I looked at the photos standing next to Luis Angel Firpo and Wills look taller than Firpo, who stood 6'2 1/2 or 6'3". If Firpo stood 6'2 1/2 or 6'3", Wills may stood 6'3" or 6'4". The tale of the tape between Wills and Weinert maybe misleading.

[APerno]

APerno, I checked Charley Weinert's file at this website that he stood 5'11" not 6'2 1/2" like in this tale of the tape with Harry Wills. For Harry Wills, I believe that Wills is taller than 6'2" because I looked at the photos standing next to Luis Angel Firpo and Wills look taller than Firpo, who stood 6'2 1/2 or 6'3". If Firpo stood 6'2 1/2 or 6'3", Wills may stood 6'3" or 6'4". The tale of the tape between Wills and Weinert maybe misleading.

Here is a second and third example - none seem to match - there is no way I find a second Weinert 'tale of the tape' he just wasn't important enough.

[Ambling Alp II]

It is odd about Wills height. I have seen it as high at 6'4. He does seem to be pretty tall. And how could reach possibly be 74" for one fight and 84" for another?

[scorpio83]

It is odd about Wills height. I have seen it as high at 6'4. He does seem to be pretty tall. And how could reach possibly be 74" for one fight and 84" for another?

You're right. Wills did seem to be pretty tall and there is a picture of him and Luis Firpo stood next to each other before their fight. Wills was not shorter than Firpo, who was 6'2 1/2 or 6'3" and Wills stood about 6'3 or 6'4" and his reach is 76 before his fight with Tut Jackson according to one of the old newspaper archive, which is lost due to the content change from news google. I believed that whoever wrote the tale of the tape of every Wills' fights from the old newspaper back in the day didn't check the picture as evidence that he was taller than 6'2" as he stood 6'3" or 6'4".

APerno, outside of Wills vs. Weinert - tale of the tape, do you have the tale of the tape of Jack Dempsey vs. Bill Brennan World Heavyweight Title Fight, so I want to know how long were Brennan's reach?

[Controversial]

I think most tale of the tapes are inaccurate and normally exaggerated. It don't know why they don't stick fighters on machines that also measure height and reach when they do the weigh-in.

[APerno]

It is odd about Wills height. I have seen it as high at 6'4. He does seem to be pretty tall. And how could reach possibly be 74" for one fight and 84" for another?

You're right. Wills did seem to be pretty tall and there is a picture of him and Luis Firpo stood next to each other before their fight. Wills was not shorter than Firpo, who was 6'2 1/2 or 6'3" and Wills stood about 6'3 or 6'4" and his reach is 76 before his fight with Tut Jackson according to one of the old newspaper archive, which is lost due to the content change from news google. I believed that whoever wrote the tale of the tape of every Wills' fights from the old newspaper back in the day didn't check the picture as evidence that he was taller than 6'2" as he stood 6'3" or 6'4".

APerno, outside of Wills vs. Weinert - tale of the tape, do you have the tale of the tape of Jack Dempsey vs. Bill Brennan World Heavyweight Title Fight, so I want to know how long were Brennan's reach?

Here we go again - you ain't going to get shite out these two unless of course the man's arms grew during middle age.- sorry.

[APerno]

I think most tale of the tapes are inaccurate and normally exaggerated. It don't know why they don't stick fighters on machines that also measure height and reach when they do the weigh-in.

. . . and do we really need to know ankle size?

[punchoutsb]

I never saw Wills numbers before. - This fight was July of 1925 with Wills winning by a 2nd round KO (at the Polo Grounds).

Those measurements don't give the impression of one guy being 22lbs heavier than the other.

188lbs seems quite light for someone over 6'2" with a reach of nearly 80", a 17" neck, 33" waist, etc.

A 21 inch thigh is a very very skinny thigh. A rule of thumb (and it's generally inaccurate but it's at least in the ball park) is an inch of mass on a large area like the thighs can equal about ten pounds in bodyweight. If the numbers were accurate there two inches difference in both the thighs and the upper arms. That would equate to at least 20+ pounds of bodyweight difference.

[APerno]

I never saw Wills numbers before. - This fight was July of 1925 with Wills winning by a 2nd round KO (at the Polo Grounds).

Those measurements don't give the impression of one guy being 22lbs heavier than the other.

188lbs seems quite light for someone over 6'2" with a reach of nearly 80", a 17" neck, 33" waist, etc.

A 21 inch thigh is a very very skinny thigh. A rule of thumb (and it's generally inaccurate but it's at least in the ball park) is an inch of mass on a large area like the thighs can equal about ten pounds in bodyweight. If the numbers were accurate there two inches difference in both the thighs and the upper arms. That would equate to at least 20+ pounds of bodyweight difference.

This page has him (Weinert) at 5' 11" 190lbs

http://www.harrygreb.com/charlesweinartbio.html

[Controversial]

I think most tale of the tapes are inaccurate and normally exaggerated. It don't know why they don't stick fighters on machines that also measure height and reach when they do the weigh-in.

. . . and do we really need to know ankle size?

No not really. I'm not sure how these stats are obtained as I'm pretty sure they don't measure all these things before every fight. They appear to be made up most of the time, I've seen Ali's reach recorded as anything between 78" and 82"

I remember an early Tyson promo video where they show his height being measured, they showed him just under 6" however he was clearly standing away from the chart and you could only see him from waist upwards. Most people say he is 5'10" at the most.

[APerno]

I found two for Tyson, Biggs and Holmes - for both fights he is listed at 5' 11 1/2" - sounds too tall to me; wrong but consistent. His reach, both times is posted at 71"

[Controversial]

I found two for Tyson, Biggs and Holmes - for both fights he is listed at 5' 11 1/2" - sounds too tall to me; wrong but consistent. His reach, both times is posted at 71"

Yes that's what he was normally listed as, he was never that tall. That's what I mean they never appear to be official stats, they can't be as they are often wrong. It's probably the height his promotors told everyone he was to make him seem bigger than he was.

[APerno]

I found two for Tyson, Biggs and Holmes - for both fights he is listed at 5' 11 1/2" - sounds too tall to me; wrong but consistent. His reach, both times is posted at 71"

Yes that's what he was normally listed as, he was never that tall. That's what I mean they never appear to be official stats, they can't be as they are often wrong. It's probably the height his promotors told everyone he was to make him seem bigger than he was.

After Tyson lost to Douglas someone asked Angelo Dundee what he would do (if it was his problem) to get back Tyson's intimidation factor - Dundee replied (something to the effect) 'everyone now realizes that he is not that big, I would hire small men to walk around with him to make him look bigger.' (Not sure if he was trying to be funny or not.)

[Controversial]

After Tyson lost to Douglas someone asked Angelo Dundee what he would do (if it was his problem) to get back Tyson's intimidation factor - Dundee replied (something to the effect) 'everyone now realizes that he is not that big, I would hire small men to walk around with him to make him look bigger.' (Not sure if he was trying to be funny or not.)

I haven't heard that before but yes he probably had a point. Tyson won most fights on the intimidation factor, once he lost he was never the same again.

[jamamb]

take your height and add at least an inch or two for your official listing

[scorpio83]

It is odd about Wills height. I have seen it as high at 6'4. He does seem to be pretty tall. And how could reach possibly be 74" for one fight and 84" for another?

You're right. Wills did seem to be pretty tall and there is a picture of him and Luis Firpo stood next to each other before their fight. Wills was not shorter than Firpo, who was 6'2 1/2 or 6'3" and Wills stood about 6'3 or 6'4" and his reach is 76 before his fight with Tut Jackson according to one of the old newspaper archive, which is lost due to the content change from news google. I believed that whoever wrote the tale of the tape of every Wills' fights from the old newspaper back in the day didn't check the picture as evidence that he was taller than 6'2" as he stood 6'3" or 6'4".

APerno, outside of Wills vs. Weinert - tale of the tape, do you have the tale of the tape of Jack Dempsey vs. Bill Brennan World Heavyweight Title Fight, so I want to know how long were Brennan's reach?

Here we go again - you ain't going to get shite out these two unless of course the man's arms grew during middle age.- sorry.

Thanks APerno.

[scorpio83]

APerno, where did you get those newspapers with the boxing tale of the tape because I wanted to look at certain fighters' tale of the tape. Before you show me that, do you have the tale of the tape of Bob Satterfield? If you watch his fights on YouTube, Satterfield did not stood 6'2" according to website and need to change, but he stood 5'10", who was two inches shorter than Ezzard Charles and stood the same height as Harold Johnson. I also want to know how long were Satterfield's arms in reach. Please compare his tale of the tape fights of Satterfield each against Ezzard Charles, Harold Johnson and Nino Valdes, so I want to know if his measurement was accurate like Sandy Saddler vs. Willie Pepp.

[Controversial]

I assume Aperno subscribes to an archived newspaper website

[APerno]

APerno, where did you get those newspapers with the boxing tale of the tape because I wanted to look at certain fighters' tale of the tape. Before you show me that, do you have the tale of the tape of Bob Satterfield? If you watch his fights on YouTube, Satterfield did not stood 6'2" according to website and need to change, but he stood 5'10", who was two inches shorter than Ezzard Charles and stood the same height as Harold Johnson. I also want to know how long were Satterfield's arms in reach. Please compare his tale of the tape fights of Satterfield each against Ezzard Charles, Harold Johnson and Nino Valdes, so I want to know if his measurement was accurate like Sandy Saddler vs. Willie Pepp.

All I got going here (as Controversial pointed out) is a a subscription to the NY Times archive - I will look for Satterfield but with it being The Times only the big fights get mentioned. I will see what I can find.

[BoxBuzz]

Dempsey's chest at 89 inches in one of the readouts had me laughin......I'm sure it was 39 and seems to have been goofed with.

But it got my attention.

[APerno]

APerno, where did you get those newspapers with the boxing tale of the tape because I wanted to look at certain fighters' tale of the tape. Before you show me that, do you have the tale of the tape of Bob Satterfield? If you watch his fights on YouTube, Satterfield did not stood 6'2" according to website and need to change, but he stood 5'10", who was two inches shorter than Ezzard Charles and stood the same height as Harold Johnson. I also want to know how long were Satterfield's arms in reach. Please compare his tale of the tape fights of Satterfield each against Ezzard Charles, Harold Johnson and Nino Valdes, so I want to know if his measurement was accurate like Sandy Saddler vs. Willie Pepp.

I came up empty on Bob Satterfield. He seems to have fought many under card fights and there are several blips posted (like the one I posted below) but no tale-of-the-tape postings. I did notice two separate 'tapes' on Charles (one against Marciano of course, the other against Maxim.) - Sorry I could help more, I will keep an eye out.

[punchoutsb]

Dempsey's chest at 89 inches in one of the readouts had me laughin......I'm sure it was 39 and seems to have been goofed with.

But it got my attention.

I want an 89 inch chest, I'll bench press 2,000 pounds RAW!