They say Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up.

Kalan
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Re: They say Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up.

Post by Kalan »

keithmoonhangover wrote:What was your punishment when you refused orders while you were in the marines?
Hardly anything... I did a very short stint of brig time and then a few week of mess duty while they were wrangling with my case.. When I finally got my hearing I argued my side. That we had no vital or strategic interest in Viet Nam and many innocent people were being killed. Many thousands more were bound to be killed, and for what? We couldn't win. I noted that the French military had no success. That McArthur said a land war in Asia was unwinnable. That we were wasting our resources and blood in a civil conflict that had nothing to do with us as a nation or our posterity, so our commitment there was bound to be half hearted -- because a lot of Americans who were actually fighting didn't believe in what they were doing -- but felt they had no choice.

Then I pointed out the war divided the country and raised angry protests around the nation -- and I was adding my voice because the war offended my conscience and everything I held dear about my country. I believed in joining others trying to guide my country in doing what's right and just. I went on for a long time talking passionately against the stupidity of the war and the destruction of human life. They finally stopped me. About 2 hours later I was called into a room where I was granted conscientious objector status.. I was asked if I wanted to serve in some other capacity or would rather be honorably discharged. I choose the latter.
Cojimar 1946
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Re: They say Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up.

Post by Cojimar 1946 »

They theoretically could win I'm just puzzled as to why they would be favored especially Basilio who seems a bit undersized for the division. How do you see the fights going?
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Re: They say Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up.

Post by SaadOffTheDeck »

Cojimar 1946 wrote:They theoretically could win I'm just puzzled as to why they would be favored especially Basilio who seems a bit undersized for the division. How do you see the fights going?
I see those guys digging inside at a pace Toney was uncomfortable with while James lands counters. He'd almost certainly get outworked. Toney's Middleweight resume is pedestrian past the comeback against Nunn in a fight he was being outboxed. Basically the same plan Tiberi used to dominate Toney employed by two HOF fighters.
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Re: They say Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up.

Post by punchoutsb »

Kalan wrote:
keithmoonhangover wrote:What was your punishment when you refused orders while you were in the marines?
Hardly anything... I did a very short stint of brig time and then a few week of mess duty while they were wrangling with my case.. When I finally got my hearing I argued my side. That we had no vital or strategic interest in Viet Nam and many innocent people were being killed. Many thousands more were bound to be killed, and for what? We couldn't win. I noted that the French military had no success. That McArthur said a land war in Asia was unwinnable. That we were wasting our resources and blood in a civil conflict that had nothing to do with us as a nation or our posterity, so our commitment there was bound to be half hearted -- because a lot of Americans who were actually fighting didn't believe in what they were doing -- but felt they had no choice.

Then I pointed out the war divided the country and raised angry protests around the nation -- and I was adding my voice because the war offended my conscience and everything I held dear about my country. I believed in joining others trying to guide my country in doing what's right and just. I went on for a long time talking passionately against the stupidity of the war and the destruction of human life. They finally stopped me. About 2 hours later I was called into a room where I was granted conscientious objector status.. I was asked if I wanted to serve in some other capacity or would rather be honorably discharged. I choose the latter.
While you're in the mood to make up stories, what years were you active as a pro? I know we won't be able to get you to link to a boxrec record since your fairy tale has gotten out of hand but at least you could share your years of activity...maybe your final record?

:OhYes:
Kalan
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Re: They say Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up.

Post by Kalan »

Well, most everybody here is anonymous right??? That’s the way I like it because I make a great many comments about fighters I know. I don’t want to walk on eggs -- and I don't want any flack or phone calls. Kalan is a name I pulled out of the blue. He can take all the flack in the world and I could GAF less. I don't even talk like him. Some people think I'm BuzzBox. That's the funniest thing in the world. We have opposing views on everything.
APerno
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Re: They say Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up.

Post by APerno »

Kalan wrote:
keithmoonhangover wrote:What was your punishment when you refused orders while you were in the marines?
Hardly anything... I did a very short stint of brig time and then a few week of mess duty while they were wrangling with my case.. When I finally got my hearing I argued my side. That we had no vital or strategic interest in Viet Nam and many innocent people were being killed. Many thousands more were bound to be killed, and for what? We couldn't win. I noted that the French military had no success. That McArthur said a land war in Asia was unwinnable. That we were wasting our resources and blood in a civil conflict that had nothing to do with us as a nation or our posterity, so our commitment there was bound to be half hearted -- because a lot of Americans who were actually fighting didn't believe in what they were doing -- but felt they had no choice.

Then I pointed out the war divided the country and raised angry protests around the nation -- and I was adding my voice because the war offended my conscience and everything I held dear about my country. I believed in joining others trying to guide my country in doing what's right and just. I went on for a long time talking passionately against the stupidity of the war and the destruction of human life. They finally stopped me. About 2 hours later I was called into a room where I was granted conscientious objector status.. I was asked if I wanted to serve in some other capacity or would rather be honorably discharged. I choose the latter.
I got to chime in on this.

? The 'political' rhetoric above shouldn't have gained you such status; are you a draft dodger?

Excerpt: U.S. Marine order on how to interview and evaluate a CO claimant

MARINE CORP ORDER 1306.16F

Commandant of the Marine Corp

Subject: Conscientious Objectors

C. Criteria

3. Religious Training and Beliefs

c5. . . . "A recommendation for denial of a claimant's application should be made when it can be determined that the sole basis for the claim rests upon political rather than religious, moral, or ethical beliefs."

ORDER 1306.16F: http://nlgmltf.org/wp/wp-content/upload ... 06.16F.pdf

Even your statement, "I went on for a long time talking passionately against the stupidity of the war and the destruction of human life." - is a political statement not a religious, moral, or even an ethical concern. Your argument is a rant on the futility of the war not that it was amoral. You sound as though you would have fought the war if you thought it was winnable. In my opinion you didn't deserve CO status, but congrats on getting away with it; better than wearing chick's panties.
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Re: They say Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up.

Post by Kalan »

You're wrong here and misjudging me completely. I thought you were smarter than that, and still think you are actually -- maybe you're just jumping the gun.

My reasons were based solely on moral, ethical, and religious grounds... For instance, it's immoral to waste your resources on a futile war.. It is also immoral to kill innocent people or get involved in civil conflicts that are none of our affair...and it's against the Christian faith to kill innocents for certain.. It's also stealing because you're robbing rice farmers of their livelihood with Agent Orange and other chemical agents. That is totally immoral. Also it wastes our time, resources, and US citizens lives are destroyed or snuffed out. That's immoral. War is one of the most destructive solutions humankind perpetrates..

There has to be powerful and compelling reasons to go to war before it has a moral and ethical basis.. World War II is one I would enthusiastically have gotten behind---for our side---because it was a righteous effort to combat military aggression, hatred, and a warped ideology.. That war had a powerful moral underpinning worth giving our lives and blood for.. It's easy for men our age to send youngsters to die to show how tough and powerful a country we are.. But the costs of war are incalculable -- and a lot of powerful thought and discussion needs to be done.. Unfortunately we may need to go to war because we believe enemy missiles are headed for our cities.. That's a horrible decision to have to make because what if our "fail safe" system fails again..

A red alert warning of enemy missiles on the way happened to both the United States and Russia where a retaliatory strikes were nearly launched. Fortunately the chief decision maker for each side sensed there must be some kind of horrendous mechanical or electronic error telling us to launch and the order was stifled. Our guy was commended. The Russian guy was fired. I wonder if you ever saw the documentary "How Safe is Fail-Safe?" The best chance of nuclear war happening is by accident. One side or the other will believe for certain they're under nuclear attack and launch.
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Re: They say Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up.

Post by APerno »

Kalan wrote:You're wrong here and misjudging me completely. I thought you were smarter than that, and still think you are actually -- maybe you're just jumping the gun.

My reasons were based solely on moral, ethical, and religious grounds... For instance, it's immoral to waste your resources on a futile war.. It is also immoral to kill innocent people or get involved in civil conflicts that are none of our affair...and it's against the Christian faith to kill innocents for certain.. It's also stealing because you're robbing rice farmers of their livelihood with Agent Orange and other chemical agents. That is totally immoral. Also it wastes our time, resources, and US citizens lives are destroyed or snuffed out. That's immoral. War is one of the most destructive solutions humankind perpetrates..

There has to be powerful and compelling reasons to go to war before it has a moral and ethical basis.. World War II is one I would enthusiastically have gotten behind---for our side---because it was a righteous effort to combat military aggression, hatred, and a warped ideology.. That war had a powerful moral underpinning worth giving our lives and blood for.. It's easy for men our age to send youngsters to die to show how tough and powerful a country we are.. But the costs of war are incalculable -- and a lot of powerful thought and discussion needs to be done.. Unfortunately we may need to go to war because we believe enemy missiles are headed for our cities.. That's a horrible decision to have to make because what if our "fail safe" system fails again..

A red alert warning of enemy missiles on the way happened to both the United States and Russia where a retaliatory strikes were nearly launched. Fortunately the chief decision maker for each side sensed there must be some kind of horrendous mechanical or electronic error telling us to launch and the order was stifled. Our guy was commended. The Russian guy was fired. I wonder if you ever saw the documentary "How Safe is Fail-Safe?" The best chance of nuclear war happening is by accident. One side or the other will believe for certain they're under nuclear attack and launch.
I respect everything you just wrote and I am not being cheeky with you when I say that. But when you say your reasons are based solely on moral . . . grounds you can't say things like: "World War II is one I would enthusiastically have gotten behind." Statements like that make you ineligible for CO status.

Look at the whole Ali situation, the Supreme Court held back his exoneration based the argument that he would have fought in a holy war. That statement alone kept him from receiving CO status. You can't say you would fight in WWII but not VN. That is a political statement.
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Re: They say Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up.

Post by Kalan »

APerno wrote:I respect everything you just wrote and I am not being cheeky with you when I say that. But when you say your reasons are based solely on moral . . . grounds you can't say things like: "World War II is one I would enthusiastically have gotten behind." Statements like that make you ineligible for CO status ... Look at the whole Ali situation, the Supreme Court held back his exoneration based the argument that he would have fought in a holy war. That statement alone kept him from receiving CO status. You can't say you would fight in WWII but not VN. That is a political statement.
It has nothing to do with politics. I'm a very conservative pro-life Democrat politically. The power to go to war is like the use of a gun. You can legally buy devises to fully automate rifles to fire hundreds of shots at the pull of a trigger and mow down hundreds of concert goers from your perch 38 stories up where you just broke your hotel window out and are ready to swing into action for whatever demented reasons you have.

Alternatively, a stunningly attractive young woman might buy a gun, go to a firing range and target practice until she becomes a very fast and accurate shooter. Learn how to load and unload it very quickly. Learn how to safely store and maintain the weapon -- all to give her peace of mind in case a maniac breaks into her home at night, intent on sexual assault. She can fend him off by threatening to shoot him, wound him, or if necessary, kill him, ending the danger to her life. She will most likely never have to use her weapon, but it gives her peace of mind -- as does having a strong military.

If you join the military as a kid you believe in it. You have no religious beliefs that military service or self-defense is contrary to the law of God.

If you have the ability to defend yourself and are confident you can beat just about anybody in a street fight – it doesn't mean it’s honorable to go around with a chip on your shoulder, acting tough, and spoiling for a fight – so you eventually get the opportunity to beat up some punk. That would be extremely immoral.

The same for a country flexing its military might against a weak adversary such as North Viet Nam or Iraq – though we knew potentially thousands of Americans would die and maybe millions of Vietnamese and Iraqis. We knew the war will be on their turf and our families of the folks ordering the action would be safe. Then the president who ordered this “military action” can don a flight jacket as Commander in Chief, board a warship and make a self-aggrandizing speech a week later about our swift and decisive military victory -- in a war which then dragged on for years.

Everybody loves a fight and beating an adversary – that’s part of wicked human nature. Just like being a sexual predator is a great temptation for men and women alike. The hard part is listening to our better angles and behaving ourselves. When I talked to those hardened military men I knew I was getting to them. Killing people for no good reason is wrong. Everyone instinctively knows this – just as they know cheating on their wife or husband is wrong. That’s why they do it in secret. But some folks think it’s manly to cheat on you wife – otherwise Trump wouldn’t be prez.
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Re: They say Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up.

Post by Counter-puncher »

Kalan wrote:
keithmoonhangover wrote:What was your punishment when you refused orders while you were in the marines?
Hardly anything... I did a very short stint of brig time and then a few week of mess duty while they were wrangling with my case.. When I finally got my hearing I argued my side. That we had no vital or strategic interest in Viet Nam and many innocent people were being killed. Many thousands more were bound to be killed, and for what? We couldn't win. I noted that the French military had no success. That McArthur said a land war in Asia was unwinnable. That we were wasting our resources and blood in a civil conflict that had nothing to do with us as a nation or our posterity, so our commitment there was bound to be half hearted -- because a lot of Americans who were actually fighting didn't believe in what they were doing -- but felt they had no choice.

Then I pointed out the war divided the country and raised angry protests around the nation -- and I was adding my voice because the war offended my conscience and everything I held dear about my country. I believed in joining others trying to guide my country in doing what's right and just. I went on for a long time talking passionately against the stupidity of the war and the destruction of human life. They finally stopped me. About 2 hours later I was called into a room where I was.
A Supreme Court ruling ruled OUT granting conscientious objector status for objection against a SPECIFIC war.
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Re: They say Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up.

Post by Counter-puncher »

United States vs Gillette.
SaadOffTheDeck
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Re: They say Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up.

Post by SaadOffTheDeck »

Counter-puncher wrote:United States vs Gillette.
:lol:

The irony of kalan comparing his fake self to the man he constantly belittles is what makes him a valuable member of this forum. The premise of not revealing yourself because you denigrate infinitely greater fighters that you know is Curb Your Enthusiasm level hilarious. Hypothetically, if he was Johnny Boudreaux, he'd get much praise around here, until he started talking about Fat chinny Frazier and easy to hit Ali.
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Re: They say Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up.

Post by Counter-puncher »

SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
Counter-puncher wrote:United States vs Gillette.
:lol:

The irony of kalan comparing his fake self to the man he constantly belittles is what makes him a valuable member of this forum. The premise of not revealing yourself because you denigrate infinitely greater fighters that you know is Curb Your Enthusiasm level hilarious. Hypothetically, if he was Johnny Boudreaux, he'd get much praise around here, until he started talking about Fat chinny Frazier and easy to hit Ali.
Hell, Galen Brown gets a pretty positive reception on here. Albeit, he should, as he seems a good dude
SaadOffTheDeck
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Re: They say Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up.

Post by SaadOffTheDeck »

Counter-puncher wrote:
SaadOffTheDeck wrote:
Counter-puncher wrote:United States vs Gillette.
:lol:

The irony of kalan comparing his fake self to the man he constantly belittles is what makes him a valuable member of this forum. The premise of not revealing yourself because you denigrate infinitely greater fighters that you know is Curb Your Enthusiasm level hilarious. Hypothetically, if he was Johnny Boudreaux, he'd get much praise around here, until he started talking about Fat chinny Frazier and easy to hit Ali.
Hell, Galen Brown gets a pretty positive reception on here. Albeit, he should, as he seems a good dude
:TU:

Then again, Galen Brown doesn't talk about knocking out world champions and outlifting Lee haney. This kid, and BTW I don't think it's Buzz it's just my rebuttal to Buzz's trolling, is something else. Not only a precise fighting machine that can mock Robinson, but he had more pull in the US military than any General has ever had. You can't make this shit up, wait, evidently you can. :lol:
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Re: They say Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up.

Post by Counter-puncher »

Hey, come on have some respect around here, it's not every day you have the chance to discourse with a man of such eloquence he talked his way out of being drafted, in defiance of a Supreme Court ruling.
keithmoonhangover
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Re: They say Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up.

Post by keithmoonhangover »

Counter-puncher wrote:United States vs Gillette.
:lol: :bow:

"Ask the accused the right questions and their answers will get you a guilty verdict."
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Re: They say Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up.

Post by Kalan »

Counter-puncher wrote:A Supreme Court ruling ruled OUT granting conscientious objector status for objection against a SPECIFIC war.
I was strongly warned about that by many military officers. They warned me that my c/o application might get shot down if I didn't object to "all" wars. They called it the "Just War Theory." But I got around that by pointing out this was not a war. This was a presidential action that had massive opposition in congress, in the military, and the nation at large. In fact, voters were so angry that Lyndon Johnson didn't run again because he was certain to be beaten by Robert Kennedy, who was against the war and killing Johnson in all the polls. Robert Kennedy was assassinated right after he won the California primary big time.

Eugene McCarthy and other candidates were also doing well when polled against that creep Johnson. It's clear that the country at large hated the war – but as a member of the administration Hubert Humphrey was expected to support the war, though he was extremely fudgy about it.

Lying bastard and crook, Richard Nixon, was narrowly elected by telling voters he had a "secret plan" to end the war... He was in the pocket of the military and defense industry and had no intention of ending the extremely lucrative war contracts, plus lobbying, consultation fees, and honoraria that went to ex-members of congress from major defense contractors who loved the war (military action).
Last edited by Kalan on 29 Oct 2017, 16:53, edited 1 time in total.
Kalan
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Re: They say Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up.

Post by Kalan »

Counter-puncher wrote:Hey, come on have some respect around here, it's not every day you have the chance to discourse with a man of such eloquence he talked his way out of being drafted, in defiance of a Supreme Court ruling.
You can't read son... I was already in the USMC when that dickhead Johnson dumped us into the Hell hole of Viet Nam.
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Re: They say Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up.

Post by Counter-puncher »

Kalan wrote:
Counter-puncher wrote:A Supreme Court ruling ruled OUT granting conscientious objector status for objection against a SPECIFIC war.
I was strongly warned about that by many military. They warned me that my c/o application might get shot down if I didn't object to "all" wars. They called it the "Just War Theory."

But I got around that by pointing out this was not a war.
Except in your earlier explanation of your speech to them you referred to it as a war several times, including the reference to being unable to win a land war in Asia, and you were saying non stop what a terrible war it was :doh:
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Re: They say Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up.

Post by Kalan »

That doesn't mean it was a real war stupid.. Legally it wasn't, no matter what it was called.. It was a military action.. Fights in the ring are often called wars... They're not -- that's a descriptive term used to illustrate how destructive and savage the action was and the number of lives it destroyed. Even though I was calling it a war, I pointed out often that it wasn't a declared war -- and was simply an unwise military action imposed on the nation by one individual..

It was rough sledding because at that time many officers were optimistic about the war.. I told them that I sincerely believed our actions would bog us down for possibly decades in an unwinnable, undeclared war that might take millions of lives. I had the right group of officers. There were many thousands of conscientious objectors in the military and many of their applications were rejected. :box:
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Re: They say Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up.

Post by Counter-puncher »

So this was when exactly? 66?
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Re: They say Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up.

Post by punchoutsb »

Counter-puncher wrote:So this was when exactly? 66?
Come on man, the poor guy is hyperventilating trying to google everything he can to formulate a response that avoids your question but brings up several famous events around the same time. Cut him some slack!

:lol:
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Re: They say Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up.

Post by keithmoonhangover »

punchoutsb wrote:
Counter-puncher wrote:So this was when exactly? 66?
Come on man, the poor guy is hyperventilating trying to google everything he can to formulate a response that avoids your question but brings up several famous events around the same time. Cut him some slack!

:lol:
A marine that avoided all punishment for refusing orders, who then goes on to become a professional boxer, who fights lots of contenders and the odd world champion and holds his own with most of them, while mixing with legends of sports. Why is there not a movie about Kalan?
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Re: They say Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up.

Post by punchoutsb »

keithmoonhangover wrote:
punchoutsb wrote:
Counter-puncher wrote:So this was when exactly? 66?
Come on man, the poor guy is hyperventilating trying to google everything he can to formulate a response that avoids your question but brings up several famous events around the same time. Cut him some slack!

:lol:
A marine that avoided all punishment for refusing orders, who then goes on to become a professional boxer, who fights lots of contenders and the odd world champion and holds his own with most of them, while mixing with legends of sports. Why is there not a movie about Kalan?
Don't forget his world class strength, people at his gym who lifted more than current world records, and the special theater in Chicago that showed film of fights that weren't filmed!
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Re: They say Robinson was always difficult to deal with; sometimes he just didn't show up.

Post by keithmoonhangover »

punchoutsb wrote:
keithmoonhangover wrote:
punchoutsb wrote:
Come on man, the poor guy is hyperventilating trying to google everything he can to formulate a response that avoids your question but brings up several famous events around the same time. Cut him some slack!

:lol:
A marine that avoided all punishment for refusing orders, who then goes on to become a professional boxer, who fights lots of contenders and the odd world champion and holds his own with most of them, while mixing with legends of sports. Why is there not a movie about Kalan?
Don't forget his world class strength, people at his gym who lifted more than current world records, and the special theater in Chicago that showed film of fights that weren't filmed!
Is he a secret bear puncher?

http://www.theblaze.com/news/2015/05/01 ... e-his-dog/
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/27388
Last edited by keithmoonhangover on 29 Oct 2017, 18:08, edited 2 times in total.
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