Whyte should stay away from Deonay

[lazboy]

Deonay or as I like to call him....Deontay....is starting to look a much better contender for 1 heavyweight. He’s in the mix. I was convinced A.J. would school him with a jab after the Washington fight but now I’m not confident, he’d be the favourite though. He does look somewhat fragile (wilder) though although maybe his athleticism will negate that.

I'm not sure how you come up with Wilder being "fragile" when he's never even been hurt in a fight and has won fights with one arm and one eye. AJ has already tasted the canvas and was on geek street against Whyte after a big shot. Wilder has never been dazed to that point in any fight...granted AJ has been in with the better stock. AJ would be a favorite over Wilder everywhere but I think Wilder wins the fight if it's in 2018. Any later than that, AJ's chances get better and better because he's going to get better as we go. Right now is not the time for AJ to fight Wilder. No way. Wilder would pick him apart.

Wilder clearly has been shaken up. To suggest otherwise is untrue. That’s not even opinion, that’s history.

Does wilder pick people apart? I don’t see him beating Joshua that way. He could crack him with an overhand right on the button. Pick him apart though? Haven’t seen him fight like that

[PsychoGamerTwo]

Whyte went life and death with Chisora. That says enough, IMO.

[Tony1244]

Should he stay away? It depends on the money.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Deonay or as I like to call him....Deontay....is starting to look a much better contender for 1 heavyweight. He’s in the mix. I was convinced A.J. would school him with a jab after the Washington fight but now I’m not confident, he’d be the favourite though. He does look somewhat fragile (wilder) though although maybe his athleticism will negate that.

I'm not sure how you come up with Wilder being "fragile" when he's never even been hurt in a fight and has won fights with one arm and one eye. AJ has already tasted the canvas and was on geek street against Whyte after a big shot. Wilder has never been dazed to that point in any fight...granted AJ has been in with the better stock. AJ would be a favorite over Wilder everywhere but I think Wilder wins the fight if it's in 2018. Any later than that, AJ's chances get better and better because he's going to get better as we go. Right now is not the time for AJ to fight Wilder. No way. Wilder would pick him apart.

Wilder clearly has been shaken up. To suggest otherwise is untrue. That’s not even opinion, that’s history.

Does wilder pick people apart? I don’t see him beating Joshua that way. He could crack him with an overhand right on the button. Pick him apart though? Haven’t seen him fight like that

It's simply a punchers chance, with all the variables it just rings more true to the statement than the usual promoter stuff trying to sell marriega vs Lomachenko.

[lazboy]

I'm not sure how you come up with Wilder being "fragile" when he's never even been hurt in a fight and has won fights with one arm and one eye. AJ has already tasted the canvas and was on geek street against Whyte after a big shot. Wilder has never been dazed to that point in any fight...granted AJ has been in with the better stock. AJ would be a favorite over Wilder everywhere but I think Wilder wins the fight if it's in 2018. Any later than that, AJ's chances get better and better because he's going to get better as we go. Right now is not the time for AJ to fight Wilder. No way. Wilder would pick him apart.

Wilder clearly has been shaken up. To suggest otherwise is untrue. That’s not even opinion, that’s history.

Does wilder pick people apart? I don’t see him beating Joshua that way. He could crack him with an overhand right on the button. Pick him apart though? Haven’t seen him fight like that

It's simply a punchers chance, with all the variables it just rings more true to the statement than the usual promoter stuff trying to sell marriega vs Lomachenko.

Credit Saad, you’ve been saying a long time about wilder punchers chance. I was convinced A.J. would murder him after how Wilder performed against Washington due to a skill gap but it’d just not that big. I don’t know what A.J.s trying to be, a pure boxer? It’s not working for him. He’s too big and feet are too slow, even his punches seemed to have slowed. Obviously this is just my opinion but I feel he should be (most of the time) a pressure fighter/puncher as his power is unreal, once punch can wobble you. Giving way to much time and space away trying to box plus it doesn’t suit his body.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Wilder clearly has been shaken up. To suggest otherwise is untrue. That’s not even opinion, that’s history.

Does wilder pick people apart? I don’t see him beating Joshua that way. He could crack him with an overhand right on the button. Pick him apart though? Haven’t seen him fight like that

It's simply a punchers chance, with all the variables it just rings more true to the statement than the usual promoter stuff trying to sell marriega vs Lomachenko.

Credit Saad, you’ve been saying a long time about wilder punchers chance. I was convinced A.J. would murder him after how Wilder performed against Washington due to a skill gap but it’d just not that big. I don’t know what A.J.s trying to be, a pure boxer? It’s not working for him. He’s too big and feet are too slow, even his punches seemed to have slowed. Obviously this is just my opinion but I feel he should be (most of the time) a pressure fighter/puncher as his power is unreal, once punch can wobble you. Giving way to much time and space away trying to box plus it doesn’t suit his body.

I still think there is a big skill gap, but there isn't an athletic or size one. I thought AJ looked fine yesterday, you never know the attitude heading in to a fight. He may have been trying to implement stuff he was working on in the gym and the right hands Takam worked to landing were the result of some solid adjustments. I haven't seen any indication that Wilder is a real thinker in there, he stayed to an unexpected game plan in the first fight with Stiverne but it's not like it was an on the fly adjustment.

I have to be perfectly honest, until Joshua the Heavyweight division carried no interest for me since that Wlad/Haye debacle. Wilder, for reasons often pointed out, was irrelevant to me. I'm old, I know nostalgia and everything but Boxing was so much better, as a sport regardless of your feelings on the skills, when I was growing up that I don't have the emotional attachments anymore. I would have been hospitalized during a Hearns or Holyfield fight.

I use this board to maintain my four decade love to an extent. I stopped posting for over a year and found myself skipping through fights on my DVR. The banter keeps my attention(not that I'd ever stop watching it) and actually has made me a Wilder fan. I've spoken to him before and his confidence comes through in a way that you just don't think it's blabber.

That doesn't improve his skills, but I have no doubt he will go after AJ like any other fighter. That's his punchers chance, but Joshua also shows moments of defensive and counterpunching skills. AJ has to be the favorite, but anyone completely writing off Wilder is out of their mind even if he gets blown out. It won't be of the deer in the headlights variety, of that I'm sure. I said somewhere else, maybe this thread, I can see a Moorer/Cooper type fight here.

LOL, what a novel. Someone drop me a

[punchoutsb]

It's simply a punchers chance, with all the variables it just rings more true to the statement than the usual promoter stuff trying to sell marriega vs Lomachenko.

Credit Saad, you’ve been saying a long time about wilder punchers chance. I was convinced A.J. would murder him after how Wilder performed against Washington due to a skill gap but it’d just not that big. I don’t know what A.J.s trying to be, a pure boxer? It’s not working for him. He’s too big and feet are too slow, even his punches seemed to have slowed. Obviously this is just my opinion but I feel he should be (most of the time) a pressure fighter/puncher as his power is unreal, once punch can wobble you. Giving way to much time and space away trying to box plus it doesn’t suit his body.

I still think there is a big skill gap, but there isn't an athletic or size one. I thought AJ looked fine yesterday, you never know the attitude heading in to a fight. He may have been trying to implement stuff he was working on in the gym and the right hands Takam worked to landing were the result of some solid adjustments. I haven't seen any indication that Wilder is a real thinker in there, he stayed to an unexpected game plan in the first fight with Stiverne but it's not like it was an on the fly adjustment.

I have to be perfectly honest, until Joshua the Heavyweight division carried no interest for me since that Wlad/Haye debacle. Wilder, for reasons often pointed out, was irrelevant to me. I'm old, I know nostalgia and everything but Boxing was so much better, as a sport regardless of your feelings on the skills, when I was growing up that I don't have the emotional attachments anymore. I would have been hospitalized during a Hearns or Holyfield fight.

I use this board to maintain my four decade love to an extent. I stopped posting for over a year and found myself skipping through fights on my DVR. The banter keeps my attention(not that I'd ever stop watching it) and actually has made me a Wilder fan. I've spoken to him before and his confidence comes through in a way that you just don't think it's blabber.

That doesn't improve his skills, but I have no doubt he will go after AJ like any other fighter. That's his punchers chance, but Joshua also shows moments of defensive and counterpunching skills. AJ has to be the favorite, but anyone completely writing off Wilder is out of their mind even if he gets blown out. It won't be of the deer in the headlights variety, of that I'm sure. I said somewhere else, maybe this thread, I can see a Moorer/Cooper type fight here.

LOL, what a novel. Someone drop me a

I got you, brother!



Good post though

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Credit Saad, you’ve been saying a long time about wilder punchers chance. I was convinced A.J. would murder him after how Wilder performed against Washington due to a skill gap but it’d just not that big. I don’t know what A.J.s trying to be, a pure boxer? It’s not working for him. He’s too big and feet are too slow, even his punches seemed to have slowed. Obviously this is just my opinion but I feel he should be (most of the time) a pressure fighter/puncher as his power is unreal, once punch can wobble you. Giving way to much time and space away trying to box plus it doesn’t suit his body.

I still think there is a big skill gap, but there isn't an athletic or size one. I thought AJ looked fine yesterday, you never know the attitude heading in to a fight. He may have been trying to implement stuff he was working on in the gym and the right hands Takam worked to landing were the result of some solid adjustments. I haven't seen any indication that Wilder is a real thinker in there, he stayed to an unexpected game plan in the first fight with Stiverne but it's not like it was an on the fly adjustment.

I have to be perfectly honest, until Joshua the Heavyweight division carried no interest for me since that Wlad/Haye debacle. Wilder, for reasons often pointed out, was irrelevant to me. I'm old, I know nostalgia and everything but Boxing was so much better, as a sport regardless of your feelings on the skills, when I was growing up that I don't have the emotional attachments anymore. I would have been hospitalized during a Hearns or Holyfield fight.

I use this board to maintain my four decade love to an extent. I stopped posting for over a year and found myself skipping through fights on my DVR. The banter keeps my attention(not that I'd ever stop watching it) and actually has made me a Wilder fan. I've spoken to him before and his confidence comes through in a way that you just don't think it's blabber.

That doesn't improve his skills, but I have no doubt he will go after AJ like any other fighter. That's his punchers chance, but Joshua also shows moments of defensive and counterpunching skills. AJ has to be the favorite, but anyone completely writing off Wilder is out of their mind even if he gets blown out. It won't be of the deer in the headlights variety, of that I'm sure. I said somewhere else, maybe this thread, I can see a Moorer/Cooper type fight here.

LOL, what a novel. Someone drop me a

I got you, brother!



Good post though

[lazboy]

Yea I’m at a different stage of life regarding boxing. Now due to time and technology (streaming etc) I’ve been able to really get into the current scene and boxing excites me. Having said that, Joshua is great for boxing but I couldn’t help but be disappointed the other night. Fair points regarding trying something different, testing the waters etc, he is only 4 years into his career and fair points regarding Wilder, I agree.

Without trying to push my point to much……and I’m quite critical but I felt there was something off about his performance. I feel he’s lacking an identity. Wilder has his identity. We generally know hes going to skirt around the sides and try to land long lean bombs. That baby miller has an identity, you know hes going to keep coming, walk you down, absorbing punishment. Aj is a mixed bag, definitely agree with you regarding his defences and he has wicked counter left hook.

Admittedly its before my time but I’ve seen quite a number of fights from the 70’s and 80’s. In terms of heavyweights, Holmes is lovely to watch. I also believe the fights were better. Mainly because I’m only watching the classics haha but I don’t think there have been to many classics lately. Anyway, I hope this fight (AJ Wilder) get made and time will tell regarding AJ and his skills.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Takam is fairly crafty. I also wouldn't discount the opponent change, pulev is an open book.

[lazboy]

Takam is fairly crafty. I also wouldn't discount the opponent change, pulev is an open book.

Well there you go, that too. I watched Takam Povetkin the other day. Takam definitely showcased some skills, especially defensive. Just Povetkin had some kind of roided second wind late on and the rest is history.

[asdfjkl]

Whyte went life and death with Chisora. That says enough, IMO.

I know someone who went life and deatch with Molina, got send to hospital by Arreola, could only win one round against his last opponent, now got a rematch with an inactive guy, and lost several rounds against a guy from Poland. That says enough, JMO.

[punchoutsb]

Whyte went life and death with Chisora. That says enough, IMO.

I know someone who went life and deatch with Molina, got send to hospital by Arreola, could only win one round against his last opponent, now got a rematch with an inactive guy, and lost several rounds against a guy from Poland. That says enough, JMO.

Come on now

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Whyte went life and death with Chisora. That says enough, IMO.

I know someone who went life and deatch with Molina, got send to hospital by Arreola, could only win one round against his last opponent, now got a rematch with an inactive guy, and lost several rounds against a guy from Poland. That says enough, JMO.

Spong would be lucky to run that gauntlet so in tact.

[candyslim]

Maybe enhanced isn't the right word, but there are undeniably a significant number of people on boxrec who rate Wilder's chances of beating Joshua higher than they did yesterday. I've litttle doubt this is the case in the wider community among hardcore, and casuals/ general sports fans too. Whether you call it enhanced or improved relative to the competition or whatever way you want to describe it, I don't think that alters the basic premise.

You see how Whyte's chances have been pretty much written off as a result of this victory over Helenius so although Wilder's reputation technically can't have improved in as much as he hasn't fought for many months, his reputation has improved relative to Whyte's'

Reputation is all about perception.

And as I said, that perception is ill-founded and coming from a camp that believe AJ should have crushed Takam quickly. AJ was in complete control the whole way. Wilder is what he has always been; a HEAVY puncher with poor technical skills who windmills big looping shots.

Whyte has been overrated ever since he managed to hit AJ. Whyte was never close to world class.

I wasn't saying whether the perception was well or ill founded, only that it was undeniably there. Whyte is a good fighter if a little one-paced and lacking a big punch at the highest level. I think he gives Deontay all the trouble he can handle if he's still upright after three rounds. That's the problem though. It was alarming to see how he reacted to Helenius' shots in the first round or two, and Helenius doesn't bang like Wilder.

[Enlightened-One]

Let’s be reasonable… it’s challenging to overcome and also look good against a talented fighter, like Robert Helenius, that chooses to adopt a journeyman mentality, where they lack ambition and resort to adopting a survival mode mind-set in order to avoid being stopped.

Dillian Whyte did make a few mistakes against ‘The Nordic Nightmare’, but the vast majority of the world-rated heavyweights would have also struggled to look good against an opponent that talented, that big, that mobile and that negative.

I also feel that ‘The Body Snatcher’ has a tendency to assume cruise control for fights that he is winning fairly easily, but he can and does raise his game when he faces a tough opponent.

Simply put: a fight between Wilder and Whyte would be very competitive indeed.

Do the people that frequent this forum conveniently forget that the original reason why Deontay Wilder rejected Eddie Hearn’s offer was due to his expectations being somewhere between $7m to $10m to face Whyte, with his career-high purse being $1.5m?

“I can definitely see where that happens,” Wilder told BS.com of facing Whyte. “It happens when Eddie raises that price. That’s when it can happen. If he can come up with $7 [million], whether it comes out of his pocket or not, we’ll listen. … The Dillian Whyte fight, it can happen. But it’s gonna take a little bit more than what they’re talking about. Let them raise it up to $7 to $10 [million] and let’s talk. For $4 million and then they’re talking about me coming over there and all that – the thing about it is I don’t need Dillian Whyte.”

‘The Bronze Bomber’ has recently stated numerous times in interviews that he sincerely believes that he could easily beat ‘The Body Snatcher’ with one arm tied behind his back, which makes his financial demands, rematch clauses and contractually guaranteed shot at AJ even more bizarre.

[PsychoGamerTwo]

Whyte went life and death with Chisora. That says enough, IMO.

I know someone who went life and deatch with Molina, got send to hospital by Arreola, could only win one round against his last opponent, now got a rematch with an inactive guy, and lost several rounds against a guy from Poland. That says enough, JMO.

And what do all these guys have in common? They laid down in the end. Whyte didn't end Chisora (or Helenius) how is he supposed to do it against Wilder? And how did he earn it, anyway? (not saying Stiverne did either)

[candyslim]

He doesn't need to earn it. Hearn and Sky are bankrolling him and $3m should be more than enough against a man accustomed to earning less than half that figure who professes to consider Whyte a joke.

In any event he is earning it. The win over Helenius should get him No. 1 contender status. Breazeale should beat Molina but he's a few places lower on the ladder than Whyte so he shouldn't be promoted above him. It's likely though the two are made to fight a final eliminator against each other.

Deontay's playing a dangerous game though because he might end up fighting Whyte in a mandatory and for a lot less money than Hearn offered him.

I think the plan will be try to avoid fighting anyone between Stiverne and Joshua. I anticipate he may have some wear and tear problems after this defense that'll keep him out.

[asdfjkl]

Whyte went life and death with Chisora. That says enough, IMO.

I know someone who went life and deatch with Molina, got send to hospital by Arreola, could only win one round against his last opponent, now got a rematch with an inactive guy, and lost several rounds against a guy from Poland. That says enough, JMO.

And what do all these guys have in common? They laid down in the end. Whyte didn't end Chisora (or Helenius) how is he supposed to do it against Wilder? And how did he earn it, anyway? (not saying Stiverne did either)

Arreola was sitting in his chair relaxing till Wilder his team requested him to give up the fight. Stiverne didn't lay down in the end, Duhaupas did against Povetkin, but not against Wilder, the guy in his last fight was standing at the end of the fight.
Sorry mate, but barely any of them laid down in the end.

[Ossyrules]

Tbf only the best at the top of the division knock out a guy on Helenius level, who simply doesn’t want to fight. Whytes not good enough to take him apart like Mike Tyson. Whytes also not alone in the division in being in this position

Ortiz vs Scott
Parker vs his Romanian sparring partner who replaced fury

Based on the lack of depth in the division, he absolutely keeps his place as a worthy challenger for wilder.

[montrealsuper]

Lou Dibella has been tweeting back and forth with Hearn that they he is firmly against this fight. I think it might be an interesting bout, with a lively build up. The sticking point is that Hearn wants options on Wilder going foward.

They made an offer of 3 million for the fight. But this is a combined purse of 3 million. With a 50/50 split that would be 1.5 per fighter. Only slightly more then what Deontay is being paid for Stiverne.

Reason why Dibella haymon and wilder don't want to fight Whyte is because Whyte is dangerous and real. Haymon only wants GAURANTEED EASYMONEY wins for Wilder which he can choreograph via his script.

If Whyte was so bad and Wilder was so great, it would make perfect sense for Wilder to go over to UK and earn the biggest payday BY FAR of his career. Plus it would be a common opponent with Joshua.

But it's too risky. Wilder is a protected fraud who has regressed because he hasn't had ANY real fights. Whyte is dangerous and Haymon can't buy him with a $cript. This is the ONLY reason why Wilder has no interest to face Whyte. Hearn knows this and is teasing Wilder haymon and dibella with Whyte because he KNOWS haymon will never do it. Hearn knows he is exposing team wilder via Whyte. Brilliant card playing by Hearn.

There is a good article today about this at ring observer dot com how "Joshua's emergence is killing Wilder"

[jamamb]

wilder would ktfo whyte. hell , chisora almost stopped him and had him in serious trouble. helenius when he actually threw hurt him.

[punchoutsb]

Maybe enhanced isn't the right word, but there are undeniably a significant number of people on boxrec who rate Wilder's chances of beating Joshua higher than they did yesterday. I've litttle doubt this is the case in the wider community among hardcore, and casuals/ general sports fans too. Whether you call it enhanced or improved relative to the competition or whatever way you want to describe it, I don't think that alters the basic premise.

You see how Whyte's chances have been pretty much written off as a result of this victory over Helenius so although Wilder's reputation technically can't have improved in as much as he hasn't fought for many months, his reputation has improved relative to Whyte's'

Reputation is all about perception.

And as I said, that perception is ill-founded and coming from a camp that believe AJ should have crushed Takam quickly. AJ was in complete control the whole way. Wilder is what he has always been; a HEAVY puncher with poor technical skills who windmills big looping shots.

Whyte has been overrated ever since he managed to hit AJ. Whyte was never close to world class.

I wasn't saying whether the perception was well or ill founded, only that it was undeniably there. Whyte is a good fighter if a little one-paced and lacking a big punch at the highest level. I think he gives Deontay all the trouble he can handle if he's still upright after three rounds. That's the problem though. It was alarming to see how he reacted to Helenius' shots in the first round or two, and Helenius doesn't bang like Wilder.

I've yet to see anything impressive about Whyte. I hate to make excuses for Helenius (again) but he clearly was fighting through another injury alongside being out of shape. The only two rounds he was not gasping for air in, he won and shook up Whyte. Wilder crushes Whyte, but I can't see how any of this relates to AJ.

[Kalan]

Deonay or as I like to call him....Deontay....is starting to look a much better contender for 1 heavyweight. He’s in the mix. I was convinced A.J. would school him with a jab after the Washington fight but now I’m not confident, he’d be the favourite though. He does look somewhat fragile (wilder) though although maybe his athleticism will negate that.

I'm not sure how you come up with Wilder being "fragile" when he's never even been hurt in a fight and has won fights with one arm and one eye. AJ has already tasted the canvas and was on geek street against Whyte after a big shot. Wilder has never been dazed to that point in any fight...granted AJ has been in with the better stock. AJ would be a favorite over Wilder everywhere but I think Wilder wins the fight if it's in 2018. Any later than that, AJ's chances get better and better because he's going to get better as we go. Right now is not the time for AJ to fight Wilder. No way. Wilder would pick him apart.

He's fragil because he got his face messed up by 2nd rater Duhaupas.. Joshua's chances are better if he fights Wilder right now.. He's fought better fighters.. He has the better jab.. He has the superior right hand counter.. He has the shorter and quicker left hook.. He mixes his punches better with crisper, smoother combinations.. He's bigger and stronger and has the better defensive sets.. AJ would never get caught with wild swinging overhand rights from somebody the caliber of Duhaupas.. An inept swinger like Molina would never catch him with a big right hand and some follow up punches.. A stiff mannequin newbie like Washington would never win 4 straight rounds off of him and rough him up.

So if I were Joshua, I wouldn't take the risk of Joshua learning his craft any better or becoming more polished than he is... Wilder is a good boxer, but he's sloppy as Hell.. His stance is a little off so he gets confused.. His defense has holes in it.. He hasn't had the competition yet to lift his game.. I think right now Joshua should go at him.. He's faced some of the best guys in the division and has 20 fights.. He picks Wilder apart easily cuz the American is wide open.

[candyslim]

And as I said, that perception is ill-founded and coming from a camp that believe AJ should have crushed Takam quickly. AJ was in complete control the whole way. Wilder is what he has always been; a HEAVY puncher with poor technical skills who windmills big looping shots.

Whyte has been overrated ever since he managed to hit AJ. Whyte was never close to world class.

I wasn't saying whether the perception was well or ill founded, only that it was undeniably there. Whyte is a good fighter if a little one-paced and lacking a big punch at the highest level. I think he gives Deontay all the trouble he can handle if he's still upright after three rounds. That's the problem though. It was alarming to see how he reacted to Helenius' shots in the first round or two, and Helenius doesn't bang like Wilder.

I've yet to see anything impressive about Whyte. I hate to make excuses for Helenius (again) but he clearly was fighting through another injury alongside being out of shape. The only two rounds he was not gasping for air in, he won and shook up Whyte. Wilder crushes Whyte, but I can't see how any of this relates to AJ.

I don't know about injury but it's clear Helenius wasn't in shape. That's what proved his undoing against Duhaupas wasn't it?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying Whyte is a world-beater but I think he compares favourably to most of the other contenders. I'd put him on the same level as Breazeale, Miller, Ruiz. I think Wilder very likely does crush Whyte but it would be early in my opinion before Whyte gets warmed up and into his rhythm.

As to how it relates to AJ, the unification now would be as big a fight as could be made at the moment. (Maybe T Fury or Haye would be bigger but they both have a lot of rehabilitation before that happens). It would do ok no question, and it would undoubtedly sell out Wembley - 90,000 live attendance, but the ppv has the potential to be much much higher. Hearn wants Wilder to grow his profile which is big enough among the hardcore, but relatively tiny among the casuals. They know Whyte and for that reason Wilder coming over and destroying Whyte would get the fans clamouring for a Wilder v Joshua fight.

How much money the event generates may not of any concern to you or me, but it will largely be the driver as to when the fight takes place. Wilder should just stop kicking and go with the flow. Come and beat Whyte. Get a huge payday. Forget about tying the Joshua fight down to a contract. Get the UK fans onside and the unification happens organically.