Marvin Hagler, a victim of racism/colorism?

[NYDominican]

Both Marvin Hagler & Sugar Ray Leonard were great boxers. But, the opportunities which Marvin got outside of boxing was VERY much different compared to what Sugar Ray got.


The opportunities which Sugar Ray Leonard got. -------- Sugar Ray worked as a boxing analyst for ABC, CBS, NBC, ESPN, HBO and EPIX. Leonard has provided commerical endorsements for companies including Coca-Cola, EA Sports, Ford, Nabisco, Revlon and 7 UP. Sugar Ray is among the most sought after motivational/inspirational speakers in the world today. Leonard's speech, "Power" (Prepare, Overcome and Win Every Round), is consistently booked with major Fortune 500 companies throughout the United States and abroad. Sugar Ray has worked as an actor. Leonard has appeared in numerous television shows, including Half & Half, L.A. Heat, Married...With Children, Renegade and Tales From The Crypt. Sugar Ray has appeared in several movies, including I Spy and The Fighter. Leonard has worked as an adviser in the 2011 robot boxing film Real Steel. Sugar Ray served as host and mentor to the aspiring fighters on The Contender. Leonard competed on season 12 of Dancing with the Stars. Sugar Ray appeared on the Colbert Report in 2011. Leonard appeared as a guest at the chef's table during the tenth season of Hell's Kitchen. Sugar Ray is also the celebrity spokesperson for the Atlanta law firm John Foy and Associates, PC.



Marvin Hagler's opportunities outside of boxing was very limited. Marvin did not get any movie or commercial roles in the United States. Hagler had to travel to Italy to get a few movie roles. These movies were around C or even D rated movies.


_____________________________________________________________



Why was Sugar Ray Leonard able to get WAY more opportunities outside of boxing? Was colorism at work? As in, was Sugar Ray given way more opportunities over Marvin because his skin color was a bit lighter?


Or, was Leonard given more opportunities over Hagler because Sugar Ray was considered less threatening and less menacing?


Was Marvin Hagler's facial look considered too menacing for television acting roles? Do you think that colorism was at work in regards to this?



Please explain.

[Kalan]

None of that has anything to do with color. It's all personality and people skills. Marilyn Monroe could have been a black woman. With a heart shaped face with a widow's peak, a smile, body, ass, and legs like that??? Nobody's going to pass that up regardless of color.. She suffered from clinical depression and eventually committed suicide.. She would have been a much bigger star if she wasn't fighting personal demons.

A young Sugar Ray Leonard was a guy everybody instantly liked... He was good looking, charming, neat, well tailored and sharp as a tack... He was probably the brightest personality in Boxing History out side of George Foreman.. The public loved Foreman too.. He always smiled and was always in a good mood.. He aged a Hell of a lot better than Leonard did.. Leonard had substance abuse problems and looked a little wasted at a fairly young age.. Foreman was possibly the smartest businessman in the history of the sport and passed Leonard by very easily.

Hagler did action/adventure movies.. He's an action hero.. I've never seen any of his movies, but if he had any real talent he would have been big.. For probably 60 or 70% of people race doesn't mean a damned thing.. Jack Dempsey was a bigger business success than Gene Tunney.. He was more popular.. Tunney was extremely clever with his fists, but he wasn't super good with people.. He put them off a little by being egotistic.

A lot of people didn't like the Klitschko Bros.. They were never in super demand or anything.. But look at Anthony Joshua.. He's unstoppable he's so well liked.. Deontay Wilder??? He's a good boxer, but I don't like him.. For some idiots race is important.. It's not, but many factors are.

[littlepug]

None of that has anything to do with color. It's all personality and people skills. Marilyn Monroe could have been a black woman. With a heart shaped face with a widow's peak, a smile, body, ass, and legs like that??? Nobody's going to pass that up regardless of color.. She suffered from clinical depression and eventually committed suicide.. She would have been a much bigger star if she wasn't fighting personal demons.

A young Sugar Ray Leonard was a guy everybody instantly liked... He was good looking, charming, neat, well tailored and sharp as a tack... He was probably the brightest personality in Boxing History out side of George Foreman.. The public loved Foreman too.. He always smiled and was always in a good mood.. He aged a Hell of a lot better than Leonard did.. Leonard had substance abuse problems and looked a little wasted at a fairly young age.. Foreman was possibly the smartest businessman in the history of the sport and passed Leonard by very easily.

Hagler did action/adventure movies.. He's an action hero.. I've never seen any of his movies, but if he had any real talent he would have been big.. For probably 60 or 70% of people race doesn't mean a damned thing.. Jack Dempsey was a bigger business success than Gene Tunney.. He was more popular.. Tunney was extremely clever with his fists, but he wasn't super good with people.. He put them off a little by being egotistic.

A lot of people didn't like the Klitschko Bros.. They were never in super demand or anything.. But look at Anthony Joshua.. He's unstoppable he's so well liked.. Deontay Wilder??? He's a good boxer, but I don't like him.. For some idiots race is important.. It's not, but many factors are.

pretty much sums it up

[Tony1244]

A few points:

There's always been racism and unfortunately always will be, but certain personalities, at certain times, can step above it at least to a degree, Joe Louis, Oprah, SR Leonard. I believe if Cassius Clay had stayed CC and accepted going into the draft, he would have been one of those people much earlier.

Boxing fans mostly liked Hagler but non boxing fans didn't think about him very much. He seemed fairly articulate, closer to Leonard on that level than Frazier for instance.

[littlepug]

Ive always thought of boxing as one of the least racist sports, ok I know there was the "colourline " stuff back in the day but I think boxing broke through that whilst other sports were still struggling to let non whites even participate, ive seen stuff about black guys playing football (soccer to you guys over the pond) in the 70s and all the grief they used to get on the pitch and just cant imagine a black guy back then getting as much grief in a boxing ring as people were just more accepting that boxing was for everyone, am I right or looking through rose tinted specs ?

[gilgamesh]

If you want to talk about Boxers being the victim of racism/colorism, look at the guys from the past like the great Sam Langford. Was never a "Champion" in the sport in spite of the fight that during his era nobody has a better resume of opponents that he beat.

A small man of a Middleweight build who frequently fought Heavyweight who had an enormous size advantage over him, and knocked them out.

Racism at play in 2 ways there.

1) He was never a Champion nor given a shot at any Championship other than "Colored" Titles

2) I doubt very much they would've been putting White fighters up against guys that had a 70 or 80 pound weight advantage over them. They just simply didn't give a damn about Langford's (or others like him) safety during that era.

As despicable as all this is. The fact that he was thrown to the wolves so haphazardly allowed him to achieve what I would consider Impossible Greatness. You'll never again see a man the size of Sam Langford achieve what he achieved. For one thing, it'd never be allowed nor sanctioned to allow the kinds of physical mismatches he took part in....and he still won.

[Kalan]

Boxing fans mostly liked Hagler but non boxing fans didn't think about him very much. He seemed fairly articulate, closer to Leonard on that level than Frazier for instance

The last person in the world I think of as articulate is Marvin Hagler. I remember him working the brutally fought Toney vs McCallum Middleweight Championship Fight that ended in a draw. He provided the expert analysis. It was a spectacular fight between 2 terrific punchers with 2 of the world's greatest chins. Both going to war and seeking destruction – an ideal vehicle for a glib wordsmith to shine.

Hagler would say stuff like “These guys are punching hard.” Like OJ Simpson told Cosell on Monday Night Football, “Howard, you have a great command of the obvious” because you got so tired of hearing Cosell's tripe and long winded verbosity. I remember thinking “Hagler? Where’s Sugar Ray Leonard?” Leonard, Foreman, Roy Jones and Antonio Tarver were more relaxed and would give the viewers some insights. They were okay. Unfortunately Boxing has never had anyone super talented for that job. That’s why we see guys like Teddy Atlas.

[Tony1244]

Not everyone is going to be a great announcer but Hagler was no Frazier or Leon Spinks when he was simply talking.

[Kalan]

look at the guys from the past like the great Sam Langford. Was never a "Champion" in the sport in spite of the fight that during his era nobody has a better resume of opponents that he beat ... I doubt very much they would've been putting White fighters up against guys that had a 70 or 80 pound weight advantage over them

Bob Fitzsimmons was matched with guys up to 100 pounds heavier.

Again...Jack Johnson had a larger than life personality and Langford didn’t. It was something Johnson worked hard on because he knew early on that the world makes way for people who are confident, friendly, congenial, and seem comfortable in their own skin. He wrote that he confronted racism by pretending that it didn’t exist. He wasn’t intimidated by it. He thought it was advantageous to be a dynamic black person who cultivated white friends and navigated easily in a world ruled by Caucasians. He knew he drew more attention for feats that would astound people less if they were accomplished by a white man. He had mobs of fans wherever he went.

Johnson also had great business sense and didn't believe anyone who told him something "couldn't be done." Johnson beat Lanford very handily in a fight of his own timing and choosing and didn't fight him again because he already beat him.

He wrote about succumbing to women, alcohol, food, and “other forms of debauchery” whatever that meant. But Johnson always pulled himself together after a spell and righted the ship. He had a powerful self-belief. Maybe no other figure in fistic history could have done what he did, at the time that he did it.

[sweetsci]

"Marvin did not get any movie or commercial roles in the United States."

What about Hagler's Pizza Hut and Right Guard commercials? The pizza ad one that aired the morning after the Hearns fight is a commercial I've never forgotten. "The other guy is eating soup." Brilliant!

I know Sugar Ray got A LOT more opportunities than Hagler, but Marvin was mainstream enough to shill for Pizza Hut and Gillette here in the U.S.

[IKSRTFO]

Both Marvin Hagler & Sugar Ray Leonard were great boxers. But, the opportunities which Marvin got outside of boxing was VERY much different compared to what Sugar Ray got.


The opportunities which Sugar Ray Leonard got. -------- Sugar Ray worked as a boxing analyst for ABC, CBS, NBC, ESPN, HBO and EPIX. Leonard has provided commerical endorsements for companies including Coca-Cola, EA Sports, Ford, Nabisco, Revlon and 7 UP. Sugar Ray is among the most sought after motivational/inspirational speakers in the world today. Leonard's speech, "Power" (Prepare, Overcome and Win Every Round), is consistently booked with major Fortune 500 companies throughout the United States and abroad. Sugar Ray has worked as an actor. Leonard has appeared in numerous television shows, including Half & Half, L.A. Heat, Married...With Children, Renegade and Tales From The Crypt. Sugar Ray has appeared in several movies, including I Spy and The Fighter. Leonard has worked as an adviser in the 2011 robot boxing film Real Steel. Sugar Ray served as host and mentor to the aspiring fighters on The Contender. Leonard competed on season 12 of Dancing with the Stars. Sugar Ray appeared on the Colbert Report in 2011. Leonard appeared as a guest at the chef's table during the tenth season of Hell's Kitchen. Sugar Ray is also the celebrity spokesperson for the Atlanta law firm John Foy and Associates, PC.



Marvin Hagler's opportunities outside of boxing was very limited. Marvin did not get any movie or commercial roles in the United States. Hagler had to travel to Italy to get a few movie roles. These movies were around C or even D rated movies.


_____________________________________________________________



Why was Sugar Ray Leonard able to get WAY more opportunities outside of boxing? Was colorism at work? As in, was Sugar Ray given way more opportunities over Marvin because his skin color was a bit lighter?


Or, was Leonard given more opportunities over Hagler because Sugar Ray was considered less threatening and less menacing?


Was Marvin Hagler's facial look considered too menacing for television acting roles? Do you think that colorism was at work in regards to this?



Please explain.

Not at all. Leonard was a gold medalist with a big personality. Hagler was more stoic, didn't have notoriety early and had to rough his way to the top. Had nothing to do with skin tone.

[IKSRTFO]

"Marvin did not get any movie or commercial roles in the United States."

What about Hagler's Pizza Hut and Right Guard commercials? The pizza ad one that aired the morning after the Hearns fight is a commercial I've never forgotten. "The other guy is eating soup." Brilliant!

I know Sugar Ray got A LOT more opportunities than Hagler, but Marvin was mainstream enough to shill for Pizza Hut and Gillette here in the U.S.

Let's not forget he also was a guest star on Punky Brewster.

[IKSRTFO]

Ive always thought of boxing as one of the least racist sports, ok I know there was the "colourline " stuff back in the day but I think boxing broke through that whilst other sports were still struggling to let non whites even participate, ive seen stuff about black guys playing football (soccer to you guys over the pond) in the 70s and all the grief they used to get on the pitch and just cant imagine a black guy back then getting as much grief in a boxing ring as people were just more accepting that boxing was for everyone, am I right or looking through rose tinted specs ?

It is. While there is a touch of racism everywhere, boxing is basically a world sport where it doesn't matter as much. In, the early days, black fighters didn't get all of the breaks at all. Tommy Burns was willing to fight boxers of all colors and opened it up. This is the early 1900s so boxing moved a lot faster race wise than pretty much every sport. Proof that it IS the best sport.

[Caractacus]

I don't think Marvelous Marvin Hager ever caught on with the public like Sugar Ray leonard did,
was because he seemed to come across like sort of a moody type of indiviaul who could go into a mood swing at any moment.
People dont' want to buy stuff from someone who could be smiling and jovial and then maybe go into a mood swing a minute later and beat yur as*.

[Kalan]

Was Marvin Hagler's facial look considered too menacing for television acting roles? Do you think that colorism was at work in regards to this?

Hagler didn’t look that intimidating. He was 5’9” X 160 and looked pretty much like a regular guy. No scowl, no “no neck”, no talking out of the side of his mouth. I could see him getting Charles Bronson or Sly Stallone type parts if he had acting talent. He never looked relaxed and fumbled his words a bit. Leonard could have been a big time actor with his personality and ease before the camera. It’s not something he focused on.

Tough guys sell big time in movies anyway -- Liam Neeson.. Clint Eastwood.. Arnold Swarzenegger.. Dwayne Johnson.. They'd get into physical confrontations every 15 minutes.. You’d end up in jail or shot dead if that happened in real life.. Hagler did Action Adventure movies.

[IKSRTFO]

Was Marvin Hagler's facial look considered too menacing for television acting roles? Do you think that colorism was at work in regards to this?

Hagler didn’t look that intimidating. He was 5’9” X 160 and looked pretty much like a regular guy. No scowl, no “no neck”, no talking out of the side of his mouth. I could see him getting Charles Bronson or Sly Stallone type parts if he had acting talent. He never looked relaxed and fumbled his words a bit. Leonard could have been a big time actor with his personality and ease before the camera. It’s not something he focused on.

Tough guys sell big time in movies anyway -- Liam Neeson.. Clint Eastwood.. Arnold Swarzenegger.. Dwayne Johnson.. They'd get into physical confrontations every 15 minutes.. You’d end up in jail or shot dead if that happened in real life.. Hagler did Action Adventure movies.

Danny Trejo is only 5'5 maybe 160 when he was young and has only played intimidating characters.

[Kalan]

Danny Trejo was fukking ugly. Uglier than Bronson or Richard Boone. That helps get parts as the tough guy.

It's like seeing a guy with a cheap glass eye that looks like a marble.. It's like, WHOOAH stay out of this guy's way.. Maybe the rest of his face is unfortunate as well so he tries to go with the look by dressing tough and acting surly, like he's looking for trouble. Joe Pesci played characters where you knew you could kick his ass, but also knew he'd knife you or shoot you dead in retaliation when he got the chance.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Not everyone is going to be a great announcer but Hagler was no Frazier or Leon Spinks when he was simply talking.

Hagler provided the greatest commentary ever in the Leonard/hearns rematch. " Get him Tommy!"

[Counter-puncher]

Not everyone is going to be a great announcer but Hagler was no Frazier or Leon Spinks when he was simply talking.

Hagler provided the greatest commentary ever in the Leonard/hearns rematch. " Get him Tommy!"

Ha. I think I'm right, in that commentary he always referred to Leonard as Leonard, and Tommy as Tommy? No favouritism there then, lol. I seem to recall one time him saying something like 'Leonard's being tricky now (as in, sly) Tommy needs to press him', he clearly wanted Hearns to beat him so badly.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Not everyone is going to be a great announcer but Hagler was no Frazier or Leon Spinks when he was simply talking.

Hagler provided the greatest commentary ever in the Leonard/hearns rematch. " Get him Tommy!"

Ha. I think I'm right, in that commentary he always referred to Leonard as Leonard, and Tommy as Tommy? No favouritism there then, lol. I seem to recall one time him saying something like 'Leonard's being tricky now (as in, sly) Tommy needs to press him', he clearly wanted Hearns to beat him so badly.

Stick him! It was awesome. I never saw Marvin commentate toney/McCallum.

[Counter-puncher]

Hagler provided the greatest commentary ever in the Leonard/hearns rematch. " Get him Tommy!"

Ha. I think I'm right, in that commentary he always referred to Leonard as Leonard, and Tommy as Tommy? No favouritism there then, lol. I seem to recall one time him saying something like 'Leonard's being tricky now (as in, sly) Tommy needs to press him', he clearly wanted Hearns to beat him so badly.

Stick him! It was awesome. I never saw Marvin commentate toney/McCallum.

I never heard that either.

On the same subject Michael Watson did the British co-commentary for McCallum-Kalumbay 2, it's fascinating he awed respect he had for McCallum when he spoke of his skills.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Kalan is Michael Watson?

[Counter-puncher]

Kalan is Michael Watson?

Oh come on mate that's harsh, Watsons had his problems since the Eubank fight and his hospitalisation and being wheelchair-bound and all but he's disabled, not retarded.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Agreed, my apologies to Mr Watson. Good fighter.

[Counter-puncher]

Agreed, my apologies to Mr Watson. Good fighter.

super-nice guy. I'll never forget Benn cheering him on passionately for the second Eubank fight, they interview him between rounds and he's saying how odd it is, he should be cheering for a guy who beat him (in a fight that was a big heated rivalry itself at the time),
of course that was an expression of how much he hated Eubank as much as liked and respected Watson.