Jack Dempsey's comebacks (1932-1948)

[Caractacus]

Jack Dempsey's last professional fight was when he was 32 yrs old in 1927.
In 1930 he considered a comeback because there seemed like too much confusuion in the HW ranks.but did not.
Here is Jack Dempsey testing if he "still had what it takes" with a 4 round exhibition with King LevInsky in 1932.
Dempsey was 37 years old.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi_GNAODRM8

[Caractacus]

Jack dempsey claimed that his legs had 'folded up on him" during the third and fourth rounds of the exhibition.
The thing that struck me about that exhibition.
King Levinsky was fighting all over the place,bouncing up and down like a wallaby.
and Dempsey looked like he had on lead shoes.

[Kalan]

Neither Levinsky or Dempsey tried seriously to hurt the other, but Dempsey showed no jab and no skills... I don't think he was slow. He was a 37-year-old slugger in poor physical condition. He was rusty as a bucket of bolts left out in the rain for 5 years.

Dempsey boxed many exhibitions.. Here's a particularly brutal one with Cowboy Lutrell -- who never, ever boxed before.. The fool had a great chin and took 100 massive bombs.. Pick up at the opening bell 1:31 into the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wnu1ZXU8KL4 .....

Latrell couldn't box a lick, and took 100 smashing blows to the head... Jack's friend Nat Fleischer was the referee.. He didn't make Dempsey go to, or stay in a neutral corner.. Dempsey threw murderous punches throughout at his defenseless opponent, never waiting for Fleischer to command "box." Fleischer should have stopped it, but Dempsey almost ran Nat over getting at Lutrell. He hit him from behind at times.

The last time Lutrell regained his feet, Dempsey immediately launched the defenseless man out of the ring with a savage left hook.. Lutrell lay iced on the cold floor of the arena---beaten to an inch of his life... Fleischer needlessly counted Lutrell out and waved it over with a flourish.

Dempsey must have thought he was punching Willard or something... He went apeshitt brutalizing this guy.

[Tony1244]

Dempsey was an American icon, no question about that. But he was also a very overrated fighter. He has very few impressive wins on his resume and was thoroughly outclassed twice by Tunney.

[Caractacus]

A 45 yr old Jack Dempsey had said that he 'had trained on cigars" for the fight Cowboy Luttrell.
check out this in-depth article.

https://www.si.com/vault/1995/04/17/809 ... -spectacle

[Caractacus]

looks to me like (as in the case with the first fight with Gene Tunney in 1926)
that Dempsey may have just over-trained for the 4 round exhibition with King Levinsky.
because he looked a lot more staler at 37 yrs old then at 45 years old taking a fight on short notice with Luttrell.
He fought Levinsky in a noticable crouch but fought Luttrell in a much more upright stance it looked like and was more relaxed.
Also he used the smallest gloves as allowed with Luttrell I believe.
check out this footage of Dempsey referring a fight January.16.1931,just a year and a month before he took the 4 round exhibition
with King Levinsky in 1932.He moves much better and light-footed around the ring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyangUX-JdE

[Kalan]

Dempsey didn't overtrain for Levinsky... He'd had 80 fights for Heaven's sake... With that many fights you already overtrained before and it's one of the mistake you try really hard not to make again because it leaves you weak...

He could have smashed Lutrell with his eyes closed... The man never boxed before and that's why Dempsey was so relaxed.

Buddy Rodgers was a professional wrestler who beat the shitt out of Jersey Joe Walcott... Or rather he almost twisted his legs off.

[Tony1244]

looks to me like (as in the case with the first fight with Gene Tunney in 1926)
that Dempsey may have just over-trained for the 4 round exhibition with King Levinsky.
because he looked a lot more staler at 37 yrs old then at 45 years old taking a fight on short notice with Luttrell.
He fought Levinsky in a noticable crouch but fought Luttrell in a much more upright stance it looked like and was more relaxed.
Also he used the smallest gloves as allowed with Luttrell I believe.
check out this footage of Dempsey referring a fight January.16.1931,just a year and a month before he took the 4 round exhibition
with King Levinsky in 1932.He moves much better and light-footed around the ring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyangUX-JdE

You can't compare a 22 year old hot prospect with many pro fights already under his belt who previously hadn't been stopped when he fought Dempsey to a wrestler with zero pro fights. You shouldn't make the comparison anyway.

[Caractacus]

i wasn't thinking that Luttrell had any boxing skills.Just what Jack Dempsey could have done to a stationary fighter
lany stationary fighter even someone like Joe Louis if the two had been in the ring together in 1940.
Levinsky was jumping up and down and throwing punches from unusual angles was part of his fight plan so Dempsey would'nt able to get a bead on him.

[Tony1244]

i wasn't thinking that Luttrell had any boxing skills.Just what Jack Dempsey could have done to a stationary fighter
lany stationary fighter even someone like Joe Louis if the two had been in the ring together in 1940.
Levinsky was jumping up and down and throwing punches from unusual angles was part of his fight plan so Dempsey would'nt able to get a bead on him.

If you think Dempsey could have done something to Louis in 1940 you're smoking some bad stuff. I'm almost 60 and I don't look bad against a heavy bag. Luttrell to Dempsey was basically a heavy bag.

Interesting footnote on Lutrell, he co-owned Championship Wrestling from Florida with Eddie Graham in the 1960s.

[Caractacus]

i wasn't thinking that Luttrell had any boxing skills.Just what Jack Dempsey could have done to a stationary fighter
lany stationary fighter even someone like Joe Louis if the two had been in the ring together in 1940.
Levinsky was jumping up and down and throwing punches from unusual angles was part of his fight plan so Dempsey would'nt able to get a bead on him.

If you think Dempsey could have done something to Louis in 1940 you're smoking some bad stuff. I'm almost 60 and I don't look bad against a heavy bag. Luttrell to Dempsey was basically a heavy bag.

Interesting footnote on Lutrell, he co-owned Championship Wrestling from Florida with Eddie Graham in the 1960s.

Jack Dempsey was probably a harder puncher then Schmeling.
Also Joe Louis didn't like to be crowded.
So I say if Dempsey doesn't knock him out with four rounds (or less),
then his parachute probably would'nt open.
BTW I'm smoking Banana Peels.

[Caractacus]

Gene Tunney annouced his retirement from the ring August.1.1928 from the Bitmore Hotel in NYC.

This is what Jack Dempsey was quoted as saying 19 months later in March 1930 about a possible comeback of his.
( when he was still engaged with his theatrical tour).

"If I find that I can get into proper condition I will be ready to meet the outstanding claiment of the title"
"The trouble with the Heavyweight situation at present,is that there are too many logical contenders
and not sufficiant elimination to produce a champion"
"Tuffy Grifiths should be matched with Otto Von Porat,
the winner to meet the survivor of the Jack Sharkey-Max Schmeling bout.
The ultimate survivor should be matched with Carnera provided he survives a real test and then I might
stage My comeback with the title at stake "

[Tony1244]

i wasn't thinking that Luttrell had any boxing skills.Just what Jack Dempsey could have done to a stationary fighter
lany stationary fighter even someone like Joe Louis if the two had been in the ring together in 1940.
Levinsky was jumping up and down and throwing punches from unusual angles was part of his fight plan so Dempsey would'nt able to get a bead on him.

If you think Dempsey could have done something to Louis in 1940 you're smoking some bad stuff. I'm almost 60 and I don't look bad against a heavy bag. Luttrell to Dempsey was basically a heavy bag.

Interesting footnote on Lutrell, he co-owned Championship Wrestling from Florida with Eddie Graham in the 1960s.

Jack Dempsey was probably a harder puncher then Schmeling.
Also Joe Louis didn't like to be crowded.
So I say if Dempsey doesn't knock him out with four rounds (or less),
then his parachute probably would'nt open.
BTW I'm smoking Banana Peels.

A 1920 Dempsey vs a 1940 Louis is somewhat debatable even though I'd say Joe would be the heavy favorite, but a 1940 Dempsey against a 1940 Louis???
Yeah, it's the banana peels.

[Caractacus]

Gene Tunney annouced his retirement from the ring August.1.1928 from the Bitmore Hotel in NYC.

This is what Jack Dempsey was quoted as saying 19 months later in March 1930 about a possible comeback of his.
( when he was still engaged with his theatrical tour).

"If I find that I can get into proper condition I will be ready to meet the outstanding claiment of the title"
"The trouble with the Heavyweight situation at present,is that there are too many logical contenders
and not sufficiant elimination to produce a champion"
"Tuffy Grifiths should be matched with Otto Von Porat,
the winner to meet the survivor of the Jack Sharkey-Max Schmeling bout.
The ultimate survivor should be matched with Carnera provided he survives a real test and then I might
stage My comeback with the title at stake "

I gotta admit I could't remember who Tuffy Griffiths and Otto Von Porat were.
But the two eventually did fight later in February 1933
( neither one ever fought for a title shot or ever fought Jack Sharkey,Max Schmeling,Primo Carnera .

Tuffy Griffiths ring record
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/37445
Otto Von Porat ring record
http://boxrec.com/en/boxer/17621

[Ambling Alp II]

I remembered Griffith when reading about Braddock. Griifths was basically a light heavyweight. He ran up a string of wins against weak competition. Then Braddock beat him easily. After that he did have a few decent wins.
I knew Von Porat won the Gold Medal in the Olympics, though that didn't mean much at t he time. I was thinking he had a better pro career than his record shows.

[Kalan]

BTW I'm smoking Banana Peels.

LOL...that takes me back to the 60's... A lot of hippies claimed a fraud chemical called bananadine --- which was extracted from banana peels by a process using dichloromethane and alcohol would get you higher than a kite when you smoked the crystal extract... The crystals actually formed from the dichloromethane and alcohol and had nothing to do with the banana peels...but the urban legend persisted for a long time and some people just dried the banana peels and smoked them... They got a placebo high and nothing else.

But Dempsey would have done as well with any super slow and super hittable fat, bald old man as he did with Lutrell.. Louis was said to have been stationary and not real quick on his feet.. They say that about every big puncher because their opponents do all the moving about the ring.. But when Max Baer tried to rush Joe Louis, he was able to move his feet to strategically retreat to get better punching angles.. Mostly he popped the taller and longer armed Baer in the puss with his jab.. Dempsey didn't do that well versus anyone with a jab ... notably Fields and Tunney.

[Caractacus]

Suppose that Jack Dempsey did start to train in earnest in the Spring of 1930
for a vacant title match with"Man Mountain" Primo Carnera scheduled for the Summer of 1930.
Would the Mannassa Mauler do half as well as he had done years ealier
with Jess Willard ?
Dempsey would just turn 35 years old and only have been out of the ring for less then 3 years in 1930.

[Caractacus]

Apparently the two former World Heavyweight Champions,
a 55 yr old Jack Dempsey and a 44 yr old Primo Carnera finally did meet in the ring for some brief "Fisti-Cuffs"
back in Boston MA in December 1950.
check this out
POW !! ZOWEY !!

http://gettyimages.com/detail/news-phot ... /515185636

[APerno]

nothing adds up.

Demspey's Record:

BoxRec Total Fights (with NWS): 58-6-11

BoxRec Official: 54-6-9 44 KOs

Ring Announcer (this clip): 134 fights, 119 wins, 5 loses, 5 draws, 4 NC, with 94 KOs --- [119+5+5+4 = 133] nothing adds up

I read once: when it was discovered that "Jack Dempsey" had fought in two separate cities on the same night, Dempsey said, "oh, that was my brother," but then Dempsey couldn't remember which city was his fight.

Would like to know what information the announcer was basing his "134" fights on; if such a stat existed who was keeping it?

If the fight from this clip is considered an exhibition, and not worthy of BoxRec inclusion, then I think we need to rethink 'exhibitions,' from the first half of the century, cause this look like a four round fight to me, and besides 134 fights fits the Demspey story better; 69 fights doesn't seem like enough.

[Kalan]

Apparently the two former World Heavyweight Champions,
a 55 yr old Jack Dempsey and a 44 yr old Primo Carnera finally did meet in the ring for some brief "Fisti-Cuffs"
back in Boston MA in December 1950.
check this out
POW !! ZOWEY !!

http://gettyimages.com/detail/news-phot ... /515185636

Dempsey obviously didn't make good contact with that punch... Carnera totally ignored the flaky toss..

So there was no "POW !! ZOWEY !!" there that anyone could detect... Just a super fat Dempsey throwing a weak as shitt punch.

The problem with professional fighters is, they still believe they can fight when they're 55.. 60.. or over 70 years old.. I believe I could get into a ring right now and kick a lot of ass.. That's why Ray Mercer was doing MMA when he was over 50 years old.. He knew he could still hit.. He nailed Tim Sylvia to the floor with a big right hand.. Then he followed him to the floor and smashed him a couple more times so he wouldn't move.

Given how he looked against Tunney -- who was of course an ATG boxer -- but Dempsey still looked so bad I don't see him beating anybody on Carnera's level 3 years after Tunney.. He was done at the world level.. Carnera was one of the weakest Heavyweight Champions -- but not as weak as Tommy Morrison, Michael Bentt, Jess Willard, or Leon Spinks.. He defended the Heavyweight Title against Uzcudun and Loughran.. He was a bit chinny and clumsy, but he was so big and strong it would be futile for Dempsey.. Of course a 24-year-old Dempsey would murder him.

[Caractacus]

ah man,that photo was takin during a "Wrasslin" Match.
Carnera was the top-billed wresler and Dempsey was the referee and they had some type of disagreement.
here's the scoop.

"Carnera was facing off against "Chief" Don Eagle with Dempsey acting as third man.
Carnera playing the heel,insisted on using illegal tatics drawing the ire of Dempsey.
When he had had enough of Primo failing to follow the rules.
Dempsey landed a right to the face of Carnera and then a left to the body.
Eagle took advantage of the situation landed a move or two,then pinned Carnera.
The crowd went wild in appreciation".

[Kalan]

ah man,that photo was takin during a "Wrasslin" Match.
Carnera was the top-billed wresler and Dempsey was the referee and they had some type of disagreement.
here's the scoop.

"Carnera was facing off against "Chief" Don Eagle with Dempsey acting as third man.
Carnera playing the heel,insisted on using illegal tatics drawing the ire of Dempsey.
When he had had enough of Primo failing to follow the rules.
Dempsey landed a right to the face of Carnera and then a left to the body.
Eagle took advantage of the situation landed a move or two,then pinned Carnera.
The crowd went wild in appreciation".

A Rasslin' crowd going into wild jubilation over a fake fight??? … WTF else is new???

[Cap]

I don't think Dempsey seriously considered a comeback thanks to his eye problem from the second Tunney fight. In the thirties Dempsey went on an exhibition tour because, like an awful lot of folks, he'd lost most of his savings in the Crash of '29. Only the slimiest of promoters would have put him in a ring with Joe Louis in 1940.