Lennox Lewis: Is He in the Great Larry Holmes' Class?

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Ken Norton was in better shape. The fight was a slugfest at it very best. Jackass!

Holyfield was out of shape?

Holyfield was shot and it showed. That wasn't the same Holyfield of the wars with Riddick Bowe and Mike Tyson.

[Jaywheel]

Ken Norton was in better shape. The fight was a slugfest at it very best. Jackass!

Holyfield was out of shape?

Holyfield was shot and it showed. That wasn't the same Holyfield of the wars with Riddick Bowe and Mike Tyson.

Norton was shot and it showed. That wasn't the same Norton of the wars with the great Muhammad The Greatest Ali and the great George The Grill Foreman.

[Ambling Alp II]

Norton fought a great fight against Holmes. He looked a lot better than Holyfield did at the time he fought Lewis. Overall, Holyfield was better than Norton of course.
The Holmes-Norton fight was a great fight. You could make a serious argument that there has not been a better heavyweight since then.
The Lewis-Holyfield fights were terrible. Lewis was not impressive in either one.

Of course we are just picking and choosing here. We can find fights where Lewis looked great and where Holmes was unimpressive.
Overall, Holmes was probably slightly better.

[elmersalsa]

Holyfield was out of shape?

Holyfield was shot and it showed. That wasn't the same Holyfield of the wars with Riddick Bowe and Mike Tyson.

Norton was shot and it showed. That wasn't the same Norton of the wars with the great Muhammad The Greatest Ali and the great George The Grill Foreman.

Ken Norton wasn't shot. He was shot when Gerry Cooney knocked him out in the first round in 1981.

[Flump]

Holyfield was shot and it showed. That wasn't the same Holyfield of the wars with Riddick Bowe and Mike Tyson.

Norton was shot and it showed. That wasn't the same Norton of the wars with the great Muhammad The Greatest Ali and the great George The Grill Foreman.

Ken Norton wasn't shot. He was shot when Gerry Cooney knocked him out in the first round in 1981.

Agreed. Norton was the best heavyweight in the world at the time Holmes beat him. If Norton had fought any other active heavyweight that night he'd have beaten them.

[Crease]

I would always put Larry ahead of Lennox. He was a better boxer & has a better record in my view.

[Jaywheel]

Ken Norton was in better shape. The fight was a slugfest at it very best. Jackass!

Holyfield was out of shape?

Holyfield was shot and it showed. That wasn't the same Holyfield of the wars with Riddick Bowe and Mike Tyson.

The great Evander Real Deal Holyfield wasn't shot. He was shot when the great James Toney knocked him out in the ninth round in 2003.

[gilgamesh]

Yes

[elmersalsa]

Holyfield was out of shape?

Holyfield was shot and it showed. That wasn't the same Holyfield of the wars with Riddick Bowe and Mike Tyson.

The great Evander Real Deal Holyfield wasn't shot. He was shot when the great James Toney knocked him out in the ninth round in 2003.

Evander looked shopworn and over the hill in 1998 when he fought someone that cannot carry his jockstrap in Vaughn Bean. There. Holy looked flat and done.

[NateJR]

I personally believe Lennox Lewis on his A-game had the tools to beat any heavyweight in history. Yes Lewis was clipped by some decent heavyweights and got KOed. The heavyweight division has a history of being the most unpredictable and unforgiving weight class based on them being big dudes throwing big shots.

He is most certainly in Larry Holmes class and I see it as a pick'em fight.

[Controversial]

I personally believe Lennox Lewis on his A-game had the tools to beat any heavyweight in history. Yes Lewis was clipped by some decent heavyweights and got KOed. The heavyweight division has a history of being the most unpredictable and unforgiving weight class based on them being big dudes throwing big shots.

He is most certainly in Larry Holmes class and I see it as a pick'em fight.

Thats how I see it, us fans over analyse everything, when you hear boxers talk they all say it only takes on punch and its true, especially with HWs. Upsets happen all the time and no one is unbeatable. Some matchups are always likely to be one sided, I can't envisage Spinks ever beating Tyson or Patterson ever beating Liston, but I would put Lewis in with any HW in history and he has the ability to beat them all. You can't say that about many other HWs.

[Cap]

Question should be is a crumb like Holmes deserving of a comparison to Lennox Lewis? Lewis in his prime would have destroyed Holmes at any point in his career of fighting dubs.

[elmersalsa]

Question should be is a crumb like Holmes deserving of a comparison to Lennox Lewis? Lewis in his prime would have destroyed Holmes at any point in his career of fighting dubs.

No way. Larry Holmes was one in a generation type of heavyweight. I don't see that in Lennox Lewis.

[Kalan]

I would always put Larry ahead of Lennox. He was a better boxer & has a better record in my view

Lewis faced 3 fighters most consider ATG Heavyweights...in Tyson, Holyfield, and Klitschko -- record 3-1 -- losing only to Klitschko IMO

Holmes faced 4 fighters most consider ATG Heavyweights or Light Heavyweights...in Ali, Michael Spinks, Tyson, and Holyfield -- record 1-4

[Kalan]

I personally believe Lennox Lewis on his A-game had the tools to beat any heavyweight in history. Yes Lewis was clipped by some decent heavyweights and got KOed. The heavyweight division has a history of being the most unpredictable and unforgiving weight class based on them being big dudes throwing big shots.

He is most certainly in Larry Holmes class and I see it as a pick'em fight.

Thats how I see it, us fans over analyse everything, when you hear boxers talk they all say it only takes on punch and its true, especially with HWs. Upsets happen all the time and no one is unbeatable. Some matchups are always likely to be one sided, I can't envisage Spinks ever beating Tyson or Patterson ever beating Liston, but I would put Lewis in with any HW in history and he has the ability to beat them all. You can't say that about many other HWs

I can imagine Lewis beating everybody but Anthony Joshua... That jab and right counter of AJ's... There's no possible way Lewis gets away from those ATG weapons for 12... He would tire and slow and AJ would pounce all over him like he did Wladimir... I also thought Wladimir Klitschko matched up well with Lewis.. Bigger and taller.. A quicker trigger on a smoother jab and better timing than Lewis.. Also, circa 2011, a better and faster right counter and straight right lead than either Lewis or his brother Vitali... Also a quicker and shorter left hook than about anybody.. Also Wlad at his best was a more difficult target than Lewis -- who tended to bull straight in with his head and start brawling... Even after Lewis developed superb boxing skills he brawled and took big risks.. His chin was out there and he did get tagged.. But I still like him over Holmes.

[Dart340]

Question should be is a crumb like Holmes deserving of a comparison to Lennox Lewis? Lewis in his prime would have destroyed Holmes at any point in his career of fighting dubs.

This.

Lewis was stronger, faster, and had one punch kayo power. Holmes would be fighting from underneath in each and every category.

I think it would be a lot closer to a one-sided fight than even well-educated fans would think. Holmes is all of a sudden some amazing, dominant champion in retrospect. Nostalgia has tinted some of your eyeglasses, I think.

[Kalan]

I think it would be a lot closer to a one-sided fight than even well-educated fans would think. Holmes is all of a sudden some amazing, dominant champion in retrospect. Nostalgia has tinted some of your eyeglasses, I think

Well... Holmes WAS a amazing and dominant Champion... And it certainly didn't happen all of a sudden... But he was pretty unlucky with fights.

He went undefeated for his first 48 and there's certain fighters he SHOULD have faced who wanted no part of him... Holmes would have faced Jimmy Young except for Young's inability to dispatch Ossie Ocasio.. Holmes wanted Young to fight Ocasio again.. He couldn't believe Ocasio beat Young and thought Jimmy had an off night.. Holmes wasn't keen on fighting Ocasio who had no experience or reputation - a fight that did nothing for Holmes.. He wasn't happy with the Norton Fight either... He fought through an injury, though he certainly won better than the scores.

He was unhappy with Gerry Cooney.. Gerry did nothing.. He fell off the planet after Holmes beat him and no rematch was possible.. Holmes beat Earnie Shavers so easily the 1st time he thought the rematch was meaningless and would do nothing for him.. He was unhappy with Foreman for choosing to retire after losing to Jimmy Young.. Boxers don't retire when they're 28 or 29.

He wasn't happy with Ali for refusing to fight him and fighting Leon Spinks twice---even after Holmes won the title stripped from Spinks.. It's as if Holmes and his Heavyweight Title didn't exist and could be ignored by the media -- who didn't press Ali very hard about fighting Holmes.. It's also funny how Ali got the Holmes Fight immediately when Ali had some financial reversals and wanted to stage a comeback -- even though Ali wasn't fit to fight anybody much less Holmes.. It seemed to Larry like everybody else got the fights they wanted when they wanted them.

Holmes wasn't real charismatic and he was stood up by a lot of fighters of his era -- who would never have gotten away with not fighting a white Heavyweight of Holmes' caliber.. Holmes was very happy when he saw Foreman staging a successful comeback.. He said, "That's beautiful.. Me and George have unfinished business to take care of.. I'll be ready to fight in 4 months." ... Dream on, cuz you're still not getting a Foreman fight.

[Controversial]

I can imagine Lewis beating everybody but Anthony Joshua... That jab and right counter of AJ's... There's no possible way Lewis gets away from those ATG weapons for 12... He would tire and slow and AJ would pounce all over him like he did Wladimir... I also thought Wladimir Klitschko matched up well with Lewis.. Bigger and taller.. A quicker trigger on a smoother jab and better timing than Lewis.. Also, circa 2011, a better and faster right counter and straight right lead than either Lewis or his brother Vitali... Also a quicker and shorter left hook than about anybody.. Also Wlad at his best was a more difficult target than Lewis -- who tended to bull straight in with his head and start brawling... Even after Lewis developed superb boxing skills he brawled and took big risks.. His chin was out there and he did get tagged.. But I still like him over Holmes.

Too soon to call AJ and ATG in my opinion, he's only had 20 fights and beaten one decent fighter in Klitschko, who lets not forget was 41, was coming off a loss and hadn't won a fight in 2 years. Lets judge AJ after 5 more years and see how his career pans out.

Anything is possible in HW boxing, it only takes one punch but if they fought 10 times I would expect Lewis to win the majority, if not all off them at this stage.

[Cap]

Nowadays history is what happened a year ago. Hard to believe anyone who has followed boxing for thirty or fourty years would ever consider a rookie like Joshua an ATG. Is it just because he's so big so no way could anyone smaller out-box the big lummox? Give me a break. Too bad Haye is so gutless. He's got the tools to beat whales like Joshua and Wilder. At least he HAD the tools.

[Kalan]

I can imagine Lewis beating everybody but Anthony Joshua... That jab and right counter of AJ's... There's no possible way Lewis gets away from those ATG weapons for 12... He would tire and slow and AJ would pounce all over him like he did Wladimir... I also thought Wladimir Klitschko matched up well with Lewis.. Bigger and taller.. A quicker trigger on a smoother jab and better timing than Lewis.. Also, circa 2011, a better and faster right counter and straight right lead than either Lewis or his brother Vitali... Also a quicker and shorter left hook than about anybody.. Also Wlad at his best was a more difficult target than Lewis -- who tended to bull straight in with his head and start brawling... Even after Lewis developed superb boxing skills he brawled and took big risks.. His chin was out there and he did get tagged.. But I still like him over Holmes.

Too soon to call AJ and ATG in my opinion, he's only had 20 fights and beaten one decent fighter in Klitschko, who lets not forget was 41, was coming off a loss and hadn't won a fight in 2 years. Lets judge AJ after 5 more years and see how his career pans out.

Anything is possible in HW boxing, it only takes one punch but if they fought 10 times I would expect Lewis to win the majority, if not all off them at this stage

I wouldn't...`Joshua has the much better and sharper jab... the much better and sharper right counters and leads... and slips punches better than Lewis ever did... He also has a better left hook, better body attack, and throws better and sharper combinations... After Lewis was significantly out-boxed and ripped for 2 rounds against Vitali Klitschko, he resorted to fouling, brawling, and dirty roughhousing tactics.. That wouldn't work with Joshua.. He's bigger, taller, and stronger.. Top strength trainers and conditioning experts go through daily regimens with AJ.. He's much more dedicated to conditioning and the science -- and never falls off the wagon like Lewis did when facing 20/1 underdog Hasim Rahman.

We saw Joshua get knocked down by an ATG puncher, take his time getting up -- making sure his legs were good -- and coolly box his way out of trouble for the next round.. We saw Lewis get knocked down by Ollie McCall and jump to his feet before he had his legs under him.. He wobbled around, and leaned on the referee for support -- not smart.. The Emmanuel Steward trained McCall was very sharp that night, and would have finished Lewis off regardless.. Lewis did one smart thing after that fight.. He pursued Manny Steward and offered him a great deal.

McCall was dumbfounded as Hell about Steward's decision to go with Lewis, who he just blew away for the top prize.. He never got over it.

[Kalan]

Nowadays history is what happened a year ago. Hard to believe anyone who has followed boxing for thirty or fourty years would ever consider a rookie like Joshua an ATG. Is it just because he's so big so no way could anyone smaller out-box the big lummox? Give me a break. Too bad Haye is so gutless. He's got the tools to beat whales like Joshua and Wilder. At least he HAD the tools

Haye's problem throughout his career has been severely over-training and injuring himself repeatedly... But he's a great Heavyweight.

Joshua also trains extremely hard, but I don't think he'll fall into that problem because he's too smart and surrounds himself with top professionals.. You call Haye "gutless" though he went through his last fight with a severe injury, never easing up until his corner pulled him out after he took tremendous punishment.. You call Larry Holmes a "crumb" though he won 21 straight World Heavyweight Championship Fights, beating such 70's era Heavyweights as Ken Norton, Earnie Shavers, and Muhammad Ali---a fight that was made years too late because Ali wisely avoided Holmes for years---and Holmes also fought 90's era Heavyweights such as Ray Mercer, Evander Holyfield, and Oliver McCall---which was right after McCall blew Lennox Lewis away. Holmes was 45-years-old at the time and fought brilliantly. I personally thought Holmes beat McCall.

Now to wrap up your hate fest you refer to undefeated Heavyweight Champion Anthony Joshua as a "rookie" a "big lummox" and a "whale" ... Joshua is currently the top Heavyweight in the sport and beat all his opponents by KO to date.. He's no rookie but in his 5th year as a pro -- after a stunningly short and successful amateur career that saw him capture Olympic Gold in only his 43rd amateur bout. If you can't recognize AJ's highly developed skills -- or see the flaws Lennox Lewis had at the same point in his career -- then you have a bias that doesn't quit.

[Kalan]

Lewis promised for months to give Klitschko a rematch, but had no intention of fighting him again because he was almost knocked out before he opened those eyelid slashes with a thumb strike and a palm rake -- those foul blows came in the first 20 seconds of the 3rd round with the first 2 rights Lewis threw in that round... The fight should have gone to the scorecards giving Lewis a UNANIMOUS TECHNICAL DECISION VICTORY!!!

That's what the British broadcasters said after the 4th... "The fight will now go to the scorecards if the cuts stop it."

This is why Lewis retired when Vitali Klitschko was made his WELL DESERVED MANDATORY CHALLENGER!!! and Lewis fled into retirement.

Vitali took over the title for a couple fights -- but needed to take 4 years off to rehab legs repeatedly injured in Kickboxing fights... He came back fully restored at 37 and won his last 10 World Heavyweight Championship Fights to age 41 -- when he became mayor of Kiev. Nobody criticized a 37 plus Vitali Klitschko for being past his best, because he looked great in dominating world Champions Sam Peter, Thomas Adamek, Juan Carlos Gomez, Shannon Briggs and other younger challengers who tried to wrest the Heavyweight Championship from him when he 37 to 41.

[Kalan]

You're so blind and biased you stink... Klitschko was winning on all cards, all the way -- and foul blows ripped those cuts open in the first 20 seconds of the 3rd... Head work was an assist but the video clearly shows the thumb strike and palm slash, both dead on the eyelid.

[Cojimar 1946]

I think Holmes is being underrated he never lost in his prime and made 20 title defenses. He is like a Lewis without the McCall and Rahman defeat. If Lewis wanted to be compared with someone like Holmes he shouldn't have lost to guys like McCall.

[Cojimar 1946]

If he had lost to Spinks earlier in his career it would be an issue but not so much im 1985.