Imagine this double header on a PPV.
MAX BAER vs VITALI KLITSCHKO
BUDDY BAER vs WLADIMIR KLITSCHKO
Heavyweight boxings greatest family duo's facing off with eachother.
MAX and VITALI have both been the Heavyweight champion. BUDDY and WLADIMIR have faced off for titles (WBO is a minor title in my mind so it isnt a genuine championship of the world).
I already pick both Baer bros to defeat em both. But I wanna see what everybody else thinks on this. Assuming Max is all in his prime and really out to destroy somebody---he wins against Vitali. Buddy could take a better punch in my opinion than Wlad could...so he would end up the winner.
The Baer Bros VS The Klitschko Bros
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HomicideHenry
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dempseyfire
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
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The Scranton Assassin
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Re: The Baer Bros VS The Klitschko Bros
[quote="IrishRufusMurphy"]
Heavyweight boxings greatest family duo's facing off with eachother.
Heavyweight boxings greatest family duo is . in my opinion The Spinks brothers. Both were undisputed champs at heavy and Michale was also one of the beast light heavy weight champs ever. Budy Bear never won a world title and Wlad never heald the "real" title.
Heavyweight boxings greatest family duo's facing off with eachother.
Heavyweight boxings greatest family duo is . in my opinion The Spinks brothers. Both were undisputed champs at heavy and Michale was also one of the beast light heavy weight champs ever. Budy Bear never won a world title and Wlad never heald the "real" title.
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HomicideHenry
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The Spinks bros (at least Leon) was a joke.
Michael Spinks as a Heavyweight was above average at best. I mean look at his so-called title defenses. One was against Holmes, in which Holmes was robbed, the other against unranked Gerry Cooney, and the other against a swedish boxer hardly nobody knew of, hell i even forgot his name and I know alot about boxing.
Leon was a gold medalist, but at best he prolly would have been a better Toughman boxer than a contender. With just 8 pro fights he beats a Parkinson's disease ridden Ali---and in the rematch he loses to Ali, again despite training harder than he had in years, still had Parkinson's.
Then time after time again he lost to anybody who mattered, Holmes was no KO artist and Spinks was stopped in 3 rounds. The man is possibly the absoloute WORST Heavyweight who ever held the title, he was a bigger multiple loser than Jimmy Braddock was in his worst years.
Michael Spinks was one of the greatest Light Heavyweights ever...no question. But at Heavyweight he was above average in my mind, nothing that special.
The Baer bros would have beaten the Klitschkos and the Spinks bros...call me nuts, but I think its justified.
Michael Spinks as a Heavyweight was above average at best. I mean look at his so-called title defenses. One was against Holmes, in which Holmes was robbed, the other against unranked Gerry Cooney, and the other against a swedish boxer hardly nobody knew of, hell i even forgot his name and I know alot about boxing.
Leon was a gold medalist, but at best he prolly would have been a better Toughman boxer than a contender. With just 8 pro fights he beats a Parkinson's disease ridden Ali---and in the rematch he loses to Ali, again despite training harder than he had in years, still had Parkinson's.
Then time after time again he lost to anybody who mattered, Holmes was no KO artist and Spinks was stopped in 3 rounds. The man is possibly the absoloute WORST Heavyweight who ever held the title, he was a bigger multiple loser than Jimmy Braddock was in his worst years.
Michael Spinks was one of the greatest Light Heavyweights ever...no question. But at Heavyweight he was above average in my mind, nothing that special.
The Baer bros would have beaten the Klitschkos and the Spinks bros...call me nuts, but I think its justified.
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pundit
- Heavyweight
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
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pundit wrote:No. Buddy loses to both of them, and Max - it depends what Max shows up.BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:both baers beat both klitschkos
disagree, buddy baer was a huge puncher and wlad has a glass jaw. buddy baer knocks out wlad. im not impressed with vitali at all, buddy baer has a very good chance at beating him.
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pundit
- Heavyweight
Well, you just don't like the Klitschkos.BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:pundit wrote:No. Buddy loses to both of them, and Max - it depends what Max shows up.BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:both baers beat both klitschkos
disagree, buddy baer was a huge puncher and wlad has a glass jaw. buddy baer knocks out wlad. im not impressed with vitali at all, buddy baer has a very good chance at beating him.
Vlad is widely consdier the technially best fighter of his generation - no comparison to Buddy - and Vitali got the #1 of his era - LL - into deep waters, while MaxB was beaten up horribly by JL (as was BB).
Hence I go for the Ukrainians.
PS: looking forward to your "best 10 per decade" analysis
Last edited by pundit on 07 Apr 2006, 12:48, edited 1 time in total.
Getting beaten up badly by Joe Louis is a long way off loosing to Vlad or Vitali.pundit wrote:Well, you just don't like the Klitschkos.BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:pundit wrote: No. Buddy loses to both of them, and Max - it depends what Max shows up.
disagree, buddy baer was a huge puncher and wlad has a glass jaw. buddy baer knocks out wlad. im not impressed with vitali at all, buddy baer has a very good chance at beating him.
Vlad is widely consdier the technially best fighter of his generation - no comparison to Buddy - and Vitali got the #1 of his era - LL - into deep waters, while MaxB was beaten up horribly by JL (as was BB).
Hence I go for the Ukrainians.
Last edited by JC on 07 Apr 2006, 12:36, edited 1 time in total.
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The Great John L
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
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pundit wrote:Well, you just don't like the Klitschkos.BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:pundit wrote: No. Buddy loses to both of them, and Max - it depends what Max shows up.
disagree, buddy baer was a huge puncher and wlad has a glass jaw. buddy baer knocks out wlad. im not impressed with vitali at all, buddy baer has a very good chance at beating him.
Vlad is widely consdier the technially best fighter of his generation - no comparison to Buddy - and Vitali got the #1 of his era - LL - into deep waters, while MaxB was beaten up horribly by JL (as was BB).
Hence I go for the Ukrainians.
i like wlad a lot, and i rate him well. he is a lot better than vitali.
however he does not match up well vs buddy. buddy is much more durable than wlad, not to mention he was KO power in both hands. he is bigger and stronger than wlad, and has more stamina. wlad was the much better boxer, but baer was a skilled big man too. fact is, buddy baer was a dangerous aggresive puncher and wlad has a very soft chin and poor stamina and i see buddy baer stopping wlad in the late rounds when behind on the cards.
is this a realistic prediction? well journeyman ross purrity accomplished it
and Vitali got the #1 of his era - LL - into deep waters,
lennox was shot when he fought vitali. he was the heaviest of his career(257), dreadfully slower, reflexes were shot, no stamina, he was 38 years old and far past his best. that was not the vintage lennox lewis vitali was fighting.
on the other hand, max baer and buddy baer fought a prime joe louis. buddy baer managed to knock joe louis down, something vitali never did to lennox.
max baer at his best would have killed both klitschkos, thats a given.
to compare the lennox vitali fought to the joe louis both baers fought is laughable
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
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pound per pound
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Baer vs Klitschko
I think Vitali wins twice. Buddy is 0'fer Max vs Vladmir could go either way, but I would pick Vladmir because Max hardly jabbed and was wide open defensively.pundit wrote:Well, you just don't like the Klitschkos.BrocktonBlockbuster49 wrote:pundit wrote: No. Buddy loses to both of them, and Max - it depends what Max shows up.
disagree, buddy baer was a huge puncher and wlad has a glass jaw. buddy baer knocks out wlad. im not impressed with vitali at all, buddy baer has a very good chance at beating him.
Vlad is widely consdier the technially best fighter of his generation - no comparison to Buddy - and Vitali got the #1 of his era - LL - into deep waters, while MaxB was beaten up horribly by JL (as was BB).
Hence I go for the Ukrainians.
PS: looking forward to your "best 10 per decade" analysis
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
- Heavyweight
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Even in today's dilapidated heavyweight division, he would struggle to make the top 10.
are u kidding me? u seripousely think guys like larry donald, john ruiz, nicolay valuev, luas krasniqi, monte barrett, calvin brock would beat buddy baer?
i could make a strong case that buddy baer was a top 50 heavyweight of all time. baer was a huge puncher, strong, very durable, and had good skills for a big man. his biggest flaw was his lack of speed.
dont underate buddy he was one of the best big men of the old timers
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dempseyfire
- Heavyweight
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Both Baer brothers were very athletic guys. Max at his peak was a fast, ferocious pressure fighter who would tear into you with combinations to the head and body all night, and of course he had his big counter overhand right.
Buddy also was fast and durable for a man his size. He did too often neglect the jab and wasn't too sharp defensively, but he took a helluva shot and had a HUGE right hand that took guys head off. He also loved to hook off the jab, although he wasn't as sharp as Wlad.
That wouldn't matter though b/c Buddy Baer would make Lamon Brewster look like a cakewalk. Buddy could throw a nice stiff jab when he wanted to, and with his pressure and punching power, I see him basically walking down Wlad and taking him out around the 6th round. Max would probably score a first round knockout, as he was faster and more explosive offensively.
Vitali poses more style problems for Buddy as he's very awkward and knows how to maximize his size. Buddy on the other hand was a vastly superior inside fighter and had better endurance. It would be entertaining to say the least, and could go either way.
Vitali vs Max ends in 5 rounds. You can't extend your left arm like that all night vs Max Baer and not eat several flush right hands for your trouble.
Buddy also was fast and durable for a man his size. He did too often neglect the jab and wasn't too sharp defensively, but he took a helluva shot and had a HUGE right hand that took guys head off. He also loved to hook off the jab, although he wasn't as sharp as Wlad.
That wouldn't matter though b/c Buddy Baer would make Lamon Brewster look like a cakewalk. Buddy could throw a nice stiff jab when he wanted to, and with his pressure and punching power, I see him basically walking down Wlad and taking him out around the 6th round. Max would probably score a first round knockout, as he was faster and more explosive offensively.
Vitali poses more style problems for Buddy as he's very awkward and knows how to maximize his size. Buddy on the other hand was a vastly superior inside fighter and had better endurance. It would be entertaining to say the least, and could go either way.
Vitali vs Max ends in 5 rounds. You can't extend your left arm like that all night vs Max Baer and not eat several flush right hands for your trouble.
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
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tony galento, abe simon, lee savold were all top 10 contenders.Ruiz is so much better than Buddy Baer; he actually beats top fighters
baer looks a lot better on film than ruiz, film doesnt lie. buddy would have killed ruiz
what is ur obsession with bashing eras u know dipshit about?What is your obsession with crappy heavyweights of the 1930s, 940s and 1950s?
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BrocktonBlockbuster49
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Decagon wrote:Tony Galento being in the top 10 should tell you something about how weak that era was. None of those guys Baer beat were even Kirk-Johnson talented.
tony galento would knock out ruiz
abe simon was better than kirk johnson, abe simon would be champ today. lee savold was far more talented than kirk johnson
re
>>>Ruiz is so much better than Buddy Baer; he actually beats top fighters.<<<
The statement speaks for itself.
As to competition...no one, and I do mean no one can make any kind of solid argument about weak competition in the heavyweight division in any era compared with the crap that we have representing the division today! Buddy Baer would have a very, very good shot of being the undisputed, unified heavyweight champion if he were fighting these patsies of today!
The Baer brothers win out in every possible match-up against the Quitschko's, unless Wlad were to get lucky in landing a bomb, but Vitali did not have the punch to keep either Baer honest and Wlad did not have the chin to stand up to either. I use to really like Wlad Klitschko and I still like to watch him fight, but Wlad and Vitali are two of the most overrated hypes that ever set foot in the ring and neither ever won the big fight...not to mention that neither have ever been able to make it through a tough fight...they both either quit, or go to pieces and therein lies the beginning of the end for both Klits against the tough, solid and very hard punching Baer brothers! Buddy was not a great fighter, but he wouldn't have to be great to beat either Klitschko. Max Baer would destroy either Klit...probably in very quick fashion!
With the exception of maybe…maybe Eddie Blunt...every fighter Buddy Baer lost to were better boxers and better fighters than Ruiz ever dreamed of being. It’s sad that fighters, if you can actually call them that, like Ruiz have been the top representation for heavyweight boxing during the past several years…it has made people seem really dumb trying to call Ruiz, or others of recent vintage champion and just because “said” person won one of the many trinkets some people think that qualifies the chump, I mean champ, to not only be in the ring with some former greats, but in a lot of instances people will say the chump wins.
It just boggles the mind, but then I realize, the people making those kinds of claims only know about Ruiz, or fighters of the past ten, or twenty years, so eventually they will learn, that is if they stick around and continue to follow the sport.
The statement speaks for itself.
As to competition...no one, and I do mean no one can make any kind of solid argument about weak competition in the heavyweight division in any era compared with the crap that we have representing the division today! Buddy Baer would have a very, very good shot of being the undisputed, unified heavyweight champion if he were fighting these patsies of today!
The Baer brothers win out in every possible match-up against the Quitschko's, unless Wlad were to get lucky in landing a bomb, but Vitali did not have the punch to keep either Baer honest and Wlad did not have the chin to stand up to either. I use to really like Wlad Klitschko and I still like to watch him fight, but Wlad and Vitali are two of the most overrated hypes that ever set foot in the ring and neither ever won the big fight...not to mention that neither have ever been able to make it through a tough fight...they both either quit, or go to pieces and therein lies the beginning of the end for both Klits against the tough, solid and very hard punching Baer brothers! Buddy was not a great fighter, but he wouldn't have to be great to beat either Klitschko. Max Baer would destroy either Klit...probably in very quick fashion!
With the exception of maybe…maybe Eddie Blunt...every fighter Buddy Baer lost to were better boxers and better fighters than Ruiz ever dreamed of being. It’s sad that fighters, if you can actually call them that, like Ruiz have been the top representation for heavyweight boxing during the past several years…it has made people seem really dumb trying to call Ruiz, or others of recent vintage champion and just because “said” person won one of the many trinkets some people think that qualifies the chump, I mean champ, to not only be in the ring with some former greats, but in a lot of instances people will say the chump wins.
It just boggles the mind, but then I realize, the people making those kinds of claims only know about Ruiz, or fighters of the past ten, or twenty years, so eventually they will learn, that is if they stick around and continue to follow the sport.
..the only difference between maxie and each of the klitschos and primo carnera is neither one would get up eleven times before being stopped.
buddy? no question he'd kayo vlad within a couple of rounds. vitali maybe would take him.....but that's a big maybe.
..and as far as maxie and that loss to a fighter making his pro debut....a ridiculous summation of maxie's career. baer was spotty and unpredictable.....but neither klitscho would take him into round four which is when max started to tire and stall because he didn't train.
buddy? no question he'd kayo vlad within a couple of rounds. vitali maybe would take him.....but that's a big maybe.
..and as far as maxie and that loss to a fighter making his pro debut....a ridiculous summation of maxie's career. baer was spotty and unpredictable.....but neither klitscho would take him into round four which is when max started to tire and stall because he didn't train.
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Cojimar 1945
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Baer oppossition
Baer beat some of the best fighters of his day. Any inconsistancy he showed cannot change the fact that he was one of the best of his era.
re
>>>Riiiiight. A guy making his pro debut takes Max into round six, but neither Klitschko takes him into round four.<<<
I asked you before with no real response back, but what do you actually know about the bout and, or events surrounding the fight with Art Oliver?
Unless I am very mistaken, which I don't think I am, you also have said on a few occasions that you don't consider six round bouts as nothing but "glorified" exhibitions, which seems to be rather contradictory since the bout with Oliver was a six round fight!
Since you seem to hang on that one bout of Max Baer, which he had close to 85 in all, why not explain to us all why the bout with Art Oliver is the bout in which to measure Max Baer?
I asked you before with no real response back, but what do you actually know about the bout and, or events surrounding the fight with Art Oliver?
Unless I am very mistaken, which I don't think I am, you also have said on a few occasions that you don't consider six round bouts as nothing but "glorified" exhibitions, which seems to be rather contradictory since the bout with Oliver was a six round fight!
Since you seem to hang on that one bout of Max Baer, which he had close to 85 in all, why not explain to us all why the bout with Art Oliver is the bout in which to measure Max Baer?
..i assume max would beat knock out both of them because he was the better fighter and had the iron chin big punch and was bothered mostly by slick boxers, which neither of the klitscho guys are.
i'll be darned..so maxie lost to a fighter making his pro debut! i have a vague memory of reading this somewhere...can't recall where.
i'll be darned..so maxie lost to a fighter making his pro debut! i have a vague memory of reading this somewhere...can't recall where.
re
>>>I would probably consider more exhibition than professional match, since Oliver did not have a license to fight.<<<
So if you consider it more of an exhibition then why do you continue to harp on it as though it was Max Baer's most important bout?
Also, where do you get that Oliver did not have a license? I'm not trying to refute it, I just was not aware of it and would be interested in reading about the bout!
So if you consider it more of an exhibition then why do you continue to harp on it as though it was Max Baer's most important bout?
Also, where do you get that Oliver did not have a license? I'm not trying to refute it, I just was not aware of it and would be interested in reading about the bout!