George Groves vs. Chris Eubank Jr - 17 February 2018

[Counter-puncher]

ppl have a really strange sense of how groves was before froch. he really wasnt much different. its lazy commentary really.just assuming those fights took it out of him. theres good reason froch was a big big favourite first time and degale was a large favourite. groves wasnt looking much better then at all. in fact he had that scare vs anderson and could look really sloppy at times.he also faded vs degale, before the froch fights.

i think hes actually tightened up his boxing.

You may have a point there, I'd say the Groves who fought Jack was technically a clear couple of steps ahead of the one who fought Anderson or maybe Froch

To me the difference now is he has lost something in the snap/timing of his offence, could be as James McDonnell says loss of confidence in his offence, I don't know I just intuit that his punches haven't got quite the same pizzazz.

[Deserter]

Paul Smith, Anderson, Froch, Cox are all inferior boxers than Eubank

Froch??!!

[TheLeprechaun]

Paul Smith, Anderson, Froch, Cox are all inferior boxers than Eubank

Froch??!!

Technically speaking I think Eubank is better

Froch wasn't great technically and used his face for defense most of the time. He just had one of the all time great chins.

Eubank shows more skill for me but we will be better able to judge after the Groves fight. This is really a huge fight for Eubank.

[jamamb]

if hes lost anything from his offense its probably because hes not swinging and loading up as much, but overall he wasnt better pre froch than he has been last two years

[Noxy]

Hoping that groves poggers Eubank

He has all the tools to KO Jnr

I think jr has a good enough beard to last it, groves power doesnt seem to be what it was either. Doesnt seem to commit to his shots since he was outlasted then sparked by froch in the rematch. I think that first fight ruined his belief in his offence, he had froch badly hurt and couldn't put him away. Silly Really, froch always had incredible punch resistance and powers of recovery, but I guess it's tough to be in that position and lose, and then get creamed in s rematch.

People read too much into the Froch fights. Grovesy has actually done well since Froch and has been stopping people. He took less stick (physically) than Carl did in those fights. He was also right in the second fight until the stoppage and that was clinical, i.e. not prolonged. Sure, it's possible that George lacks some belief after what happened, you never know, but I don't see it.

[jamamb]

Hoping that groves poggers Eubank

He has all the tools to KO Jnr

I think jr has a good enough beard to last it, groves power doesnt seem to be what it was either. Doesnt seem to commit to his shots since he was outlasted then sparked by froch in the rematch. I think that first fight ruined his belief in his offence, he had froch badly hurt and couldn't put him away. Silly Really, froch always had incredible punch resistance and powers of recovery, but I guess it's tough to be in that position and lose, and then get creamed in s rematch.

People read too much into the Froch fights. Grovesy has actually done well since Froch and has been stopping people. He took less stick (physically) than Carl did in those fights. He was also right in the second fight until the stoppage and that was clinical, i.e. not prolonged. Sure, it's possible that George lacks some belief after what happened, you never know, but I don't see it.

this whole post-froch decline, took it out of him, took his confidence narrative is bogus

ppl should go review his earlier career and not just his favourable highlights vs froch. he was no better then and was prob worse imo.ppl think hed be better as the version who was written off vs degale and expected to be easily taken out by froch?

[Deserter]

Paul Smith, Anderson, Froch, Cox are all inferior boxers than Eubank

Froch??!!

Technically speaking I think Eubank is better

Froch wasn't great technically and used his face for defense most of the time. He just had one of the all time great chins.

Eubank shows more skill for me but we will be better able to judge after the Groves fight. This is really a huge fight for Eubank.

mate, that's so far off the mark it's borderline laughable IMO. Eubanks' flaws (against a far lower level of opposition) in terms of footwork etc, have already been highlighted by others on a consistent basis.
As for Froch, the former world amateur bronze medallist, I'm genuinely tired of the lazy stereotype that he just got by on the strength of a great chin alone - you and every other serious fan on this forum know that is nowhere near enough to be competitive at world level, let alone have the career that Froch did.
Look at the clinic with the jab he put on against an Arthur Abraham (who seven years ago was far closer to his peak than the shell that CE Jr faced) when he decided he needed to switch tactics and fight a different kind of fight; look at the way he set GG up for the KO finish in their rematch; look at the fact that the only fighter who was ever able to comprehensively outbox him was a modern p4p great.
Meanwhile CE Jr has demonstrated "far more skill" exactly how, given he lost to the only world-class name on his record?
Putting Froch alongside the likes of Smith, Cox and Anderson is insulitng to his legacy - as boxing has shown time and time again, It's all about levels... any reference to the relative skills of Froch and CE Jr needs to remember that context.

[Boxerbeetle]

Paul Smith, Anderson, Froch, Cox are all inferior boxers than Eubank

Froch??!!

Technically speaking I think Eubank is better

Froch wasn't great technically and used his face for defense most of the time. He just had one of the all time great chins.

Eubank Jr better technically than Froch??

[ElJefe]

Agree with Deserter; Froch dealt with a better version of Abraham with more ease than Eubank. Eubank is a very good fighter but hasn't proven his boxing skill on the highest level imo. Doesn't mean that he can't beat Groves, just means that it's premature to call him technically better than Froch.

[TheLeprechaun]

Some good points. Before I respond would you agree that Groves is technically better than Froch?

[coneye]

Froch??!!

Technically speaking I think Eubank is better

Froch wasn't great technically and used his face for defense most of the time. He just had one of the all time great chins.

Eubank shows more skill for me but we will be better able to judge after the Groves fight. This is really a huge fight for Eubank.

mate, that's so far off the mark it's borderline laughable IMO. Eubanks' flaws (against a far lower level of opposition) in terms of footwork etc, have already been highlighted by others on a consistent basis.
As for Froch, the former world amateur bronze medallist, I'm genuinely tired of the lazy stereotype that he just got by on the strength of a great chin alone - you and every other serious fan on this forum know that is nowhere near enough to be competitive at world level, let alone have the career that Froch did.
Look at the clinic with the jab he put on against an Arthur Abraham (who seven years ago was far closer to his peak than the shell that CE Jr faced) when he decided he needed to switch tactics and fight a different kind of fight; look at the way he set GG up for the KO finish in their rematch; look at the fact that the only fighter who was ever able to comprehensively outbox him was a modern p4p great.
Meanwhile CE Jr has demonstrated "far more skill" exactly how, given he lost to the only world-class name on his record?
Putting Froch alongside the likes of Smith, Cox and Anderson is insulitng to his legacy - as boxing has shown time and time again, It's all about levels... any reference to the relative skills of Froch and CE Jr needs to remember that context.

READ and LEARN

[mickey1975]

That has to be up there with the comment of the year. It's not even up for discussion.

[Oiky]

Great post

Eubank better technically

[lillywhite14]

Paul Smith, Anderson, Froch, Cox are all inferior boxers than Eubank

Froch??!!

Technically speaking I think Eubank is better

Froch wasn't great technically and used his face for defense most of the time. He just had one of the all time great chins.

Eubank shows more skill for me but we will be better able to judge after the Groves fight. This is really a huge fight for Eubank.

Eubank looks fine when against overmatched opponents, but he’s not passed an acid test yet. Easy to look a million dollars against sub standard fighters

People think Froch couldn’t box because of his ugly style but he was awkward as fvck with a solid jab, great work rate and an iron chin. He seemed to telegraph everything yet still landed plenty, which shows just how good he was. He was a relatively clever fighter too. You don’t hang with with Taylor, Dirrell and Ward ( he took 2/3 rounds off a prime Ward which isn’t easy to do ) if you can’t box. Froch was more than just a chin.

This fight is huge for Eubank and will tell us where he stands.

[Oiky]

Yea we'll be able to gauge Eubank a bit better after this

[lillywhite14]

I missed Deserters post above.

Spot on

[Deserter]

I missed Deserters post above.

Spot on

Thanks fella

[TheLeprechaun]

No answer as to whether groves is technically better than Froch.

I'd say Taylor, Dirrell, Groves, Kessler (was on his way out for their last fight) are all technically better than Froch.

Froch was taking a hiding from Groves in the first and for me getting out boxed and losing handily in the second. A far few rounds behind Taylor but rallied and got the win with 10 seconds left. Completely out boxed against Dirrell for me.

Eubank is so disliked on these forums that it's hard to know if it's worth debating. Most of the people who posted here still think he's going to pull out o the groves fight.

Just because a fighter hasn't proved it at top level, you can use your own interpretation of his skills and assess whether or not you think he can beat someone on that level. For me Eubank outboxes Froch handily but I'm sure most on here would have Froch winning every round so we just have to agree to disagree and we will find out a lot in the groves fight.

As far as Abraham goes, they both had an easy time with him. He is basically a heavy bag in the ring when he steps up.

[Wa1nuts]

No answer as to whether groves is technically better than Froch.

I'd say Taylor, Dirrell, Groves, Kessler (was on his way out for their last fight) are all technically better than Froch.

Froch was taking a hiding from Groves in the first and for me getting out boxed and losing handily in the second. A far few rounds behind Taylor but rallied and got the win with 10 seconds left. Completely out boxed against Dirrell for me.

Eubank is so disliked on these forums that it's hard to know if it's worth debating. Most of the people who posted here still think he's going to pull out o the groves fight.

Just because a fighter hasn't proved it at top level, you can use your own interpretation of his skills and assess whether or not you think he can beat someone on that level. For me Eubank outboxes Froch handily but I'm sure most on here would have Froch winning every round so we just have to agree to disagree and we will find out a lot in the groves fight.

As far as Abraham goes, they both had an easy time with him. He is basically a heavy bag in the ring when he steps up.

What the second fight? Froch was on his A game an clearly better than Groves in every department

[Noxy]

No answer as to whether groves is technically better than Froch.

I'd say Taylor, Dirrell, Groves, Kessler (was on his way out for their last fight) are all technically better than Froch.

Froch was taking a hiding from Groves in the first and for me getting out boxed and losing handily in the second. A far few rounds behind Taylor but rallied and got the win with 10 seconds left. Completely out boxed against Dirrell for me.

Eubank is so disliked on these forums that it's hard to know if it's worth debating. Most of the people who posted here still think he's going to pull out o the groves fight.

Just because a fighter hasn't proved it at top level, you can use your own interpretation of his skills and assess whether or not you think he can beat someone on that level. For me Eubank outboxes Froch handily but I'm sure most on here would have Froch winning every round so we just have to agree to disagree and we will find out a lot in the groves fight.

As far as Abraham goes, they both had an easy time with him. He is basically a heavy bag in the ring when he steps up.

What the second fight? Froch was on his A game an clearly better than Groves in every department

No he wasn’t. The second fight was close until Froch closed the show

[Deserter]

No answer as to whether groves is technically better than Froch.

I'd say Taylor, Dirrell, Groves, Kessler (was on his way out for their last fight) are all technically better than Froch.

Froch was taking a hiding from Groves in the first and for me getting out boxed and losing handily in the second. A far few rounds behind Taylor but rallied and got the win with 10 seconds left. Completely out boxed against Dirrell for me.

Eubank is so disliked on these forums that it's hard to know if it's worth debating. Most of the people who posted here still think he's going to pull out o the groves fight.

Just because a fighter hasn't proved it at top level, you can use your own interpretation of his skills and assess whether or not you think he can beat someone on that level. For me Eubank outboxes Froch handily but I'm sure most on here would have Froch winning every round so we just have to agree to disagree and we will find out a lot in the groves fight.

As far as Abraham goes, they both had an easy time with him. He is basically a heavy bag in the ring when he steps up.

This whole thing reads like a deflection strategy after an initially foolish comment. Nobody's answered your question about Groves being technically better than Froch as everyone, rightly, was focused on addressing your claim that Froch was an inferior boxer to Eubank Jr.
The statement that people arguing against that are motivated by personal dislike of Eubank Jr rather than facts is just a poor attempt to salvage your stance and your own claim that Froch was being out-boxed and losing handily in the rematch actually demonstrates a level of bias that undermines you far more - I genuinely can't recall anyone else claiming that was the case, with the overwhelming majority rightly seeing it as a nip-and-tuck affair right up until the finish, with Froch probably a round or two up.
As for the whole 'interpretation' argument - the problem with going down that road are that you're not applying the same criteria to both fighters i.e. you focus on Froch in the context of how his chin etc overcame perceived technical deficiencies, but ignore what most other people have recognised regarding CE JR regarding how his work-rate and speed offset his own technical shortcomings in terms of areas like footwork. The irony is that you've therefore chosen completely the wrong fighter to use for this type of argument regarding an unproven boxer's capabilities. Someone like Josh Taylor would be a far more obvious candidate for that type of assessment, as his fundamentals, timing and control of distance are clearly so good. Eubank, by contrast, relies on those assets I've just mentioned and is far from a textbook example of a technically sound boxer who displays all the right fundamentals.

[TheLeprechaun]

The groves question is important because it let's me know if I'm dealing with rational posters.

At the end of the day, it comes down to opinions at this point until we see more of Eubank. You talked about Eubank having bad footwork but Froch had atrocious footwork for me. In terms of movement and footwork I don't see it close. In terms of defence, Eubanks is far slicker when he wants to be and miles ahead Froch in that department also. In terms of punching technique, again I favour Eubank.

So I guess I'm standing by my opinion. Time will tell if I'm correct. If I'm wrong I'll hold my hands up. But for me it's no contest in terms of who is technically better. And I'm a huge fan of Froch by the way.

And regarding the second fight between groves and Froch, I had groves up by 4 points at the time of the stoppage. I think the commentary was terrible and people were blinded by the fact that Froch was doing better than he did in the first fight. Still losing the rounds for me. They interviewed khan in the audience at one point and he said as much. One of the few times I've agreed with him.

[Deserter]

The groves question is important because it let's me know if I'm dealing with rational posters.

At the end of the day, it comes down to opinions at this point until we see more of Eubank. You talked about Eubank having bad footwork but Froch had atrocious footwork for me. In terms of movement and footwork I don't see it close. In terms of defence, Eubanks is far slicker when he wants to be and miles ahead Froch in that department also. In terms of punching technique, again I favour Eubank.

So I guess I'm standing by my opinion. Time will tell if I'm correct. If I'm wrong I'll hold my hands up. But for me it's no contest in terms of who is technically better. And I'm a huge fan of Froch by the way.

And regarding the second fight between groves and Froch, I had groves up by 4 points at the time of the stoppage. I think the commentary was terrible and people were blinded by the fact that Froch was doing better than he did in the first fight. Still losing the rounds for me. They interviewed khan in the audience at one point and he said as much. One of the few times I've agreed with him.

Fair enough fella, time will tell indeed. I still think it's about levels and CE JR has been carefully matched to date - a six-year career and 28 fights and what's the best win on his record? We've all seen plenty of fighters who look a million dollars against the right guys and then fall apart when it's time to step up.
BJS was also clearly better than him technically and irony of ironies it was his work-rate that got him back in that fight, not his technical skills.... almost Froch-like...
By the way, genuinely the first person I've heard with that scorecard for the Froch GG rematch though.

[jamamb]

No answer as to whether groves is technically better than Froch.

I'd say Taylor, Dirrell, Groves, Kessler (was on his way out for their last fight) are all technically better than Froch.

Froch was taking a hiding from Groves in the first and for me getting out boxed and losing handily in the second. A far few rounds behind Taylor but rallied and got the win with 10 seconds left. Completely out boxed against Dirrell for me.

Eubank is so disliked on these forums that it's hard to know if it's worth debating. Most of the people who posted here still think he's going to pull out o the groves fight.

Just because a fighter hasn't proved it at top level, you can use your own interpretation of his skills and assess whether or not you think he can beat someone on that level. For me Eubank outboxes Froch handily but I'm sure most on here would have Froch winning every round so we just have to agree to disagree and we will find out a lot in the groves fight.

As far as Abraham goes, they both had an easy time with him. He is basically a heavy bag in the ring when he steps up.

What the second fight? Froch was on his A game an clearly better than Groves in every department

No he wasn’t. The second fight was close until Froch closed the show

agree. bizarre comment from the nutty one. had gg up by 1.

[leejonesjnr]

I had Groves up by 1 at the time of the stoppage, a point either way perhaps but it was a close and competitive contest right up until the point that it wasn't.
It is difficult to compare skill levels between Froch and CEJ as we have seen more of Froch and CEJ has faced fewer top tier boxers.
I always thought that Froch was kinda the spiritual successor to CES in that his technical ability was what one might call solid and workmanlike rather than attractive or stylish, he had an excellent engine and tough chin.
Again, whilst not textbook boxing, his feet wide stance was effective for him so do the results not make it good footwork?