Top 50 ever (without old boxer)

[gilgamesh]

Bullshitt.... It's 10 times better.. You had to sneak off to do weight training and specialized conditioning in the old days because the old trainers didn't believe in it.. But anybody who did it got great results.. Better and faster punching, quicker footwork, more spring and better resistance.

Weight training doesn't help Boxers. MMA fighters yes, but boxers no.

[lazboy]

Bullshitt.... It's 10 times better.. You had to sneak off to do weight training and specialized conditioning in the old days because the old trainers didn't believe in it.. But anybody who did it got great results.. Better and faster punching, quicker footwork, more spring and better resistance.

Weight training doesn't help Boxers. MMA fighters yes, but boxers no.

Not sure about that. Look at Holyfield.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Bullshitt.... It's 10 times better.. You had to sneak off to do weight training and specialized conditioning in the old days because the old trainers didn't believe in it.. But anybody who did it got great results.. Better and faster punching, quicker footwork, more spring and better resistance.

I know sweetheart, this evolved training has Lightweights unable to keep up with a former Heavyweights pace. Your troll game is good, but these are the spots where you expose yourself. It's ok, some day you'll meet a pussy, or a dick(don't know your preference) and this internet thing won't be so important to you.

[Lackeos]

With few exceptions like ali and robinson. They way too good.

I am still at work. Give me some time. Gilga needs to understand why cotto is top 50.

Cotto is not top 50 all-time. He might be top 50 of the last 30 years.

[Jip]

Cotto was good against floyd.

Do u think those unathletic old timer boxer wouldve touched floyd?

I look at the footages and see slow, stiff boxer. Not all. Some exceptions here and there. But overall.

J. Johnson wouldve been to slow and weak for 80s tyson

All 147-154 boxer except robinson & armstrong wouldve not been able to catch floyd

[Jip]

Rating a boxers quality does come down to

Speed, power, reflexes, footwork, overall athleticsm & technique.

It doesnt come down to time periods, wether you fought in the 40 or 90s. Or if you have 40 or 300 fights.

Leonard had around 40 fights yet was a better boxer than any 200 + fights boxer i can think of except robinson.

Why? Because he wasmore athletic, faster, sharper and simply better!

If you guys like your nostalgia glasses. Thats fine. Ilove freedom and anybody can think what they want. So if you think slow harry greb with 0 fight footage is a better boxer than floyd or leonard just because he has more fights than so be it. I dont.

[Jip]

I will include some good old boxers.

New boxer, 1970-2018 became just better, more athletic over time, like in every single other sport. Footballer from the past look stiiff and slow compared to footballer today. Back than 10 sec was a world record time, now athletes run 9,60 sec in 100 m. Basketballplayer were unathletic slow to guys like jordan, iverson & james.

Everything Evolved, so did boxing. Than there are rare exceptions of athletes who were so athletic, so good, that they would have been elite no matter 1950 or 2020. Wilt chamberlain, maradona & pele, ali, robinson....etc..

If anything, boxing regressed. Fighters today fight less often, in shorter fights and against a smaller talent pool, trained by a smaller pool of coaches. This isn't the case with most other sports.

Training methods in boxing technique haven't changed much either.

You dont know what you are talking about.

Training, nutrition, recuperation, everything changed. Athletes became faster bigger stronger. But in boxing all stayed the same. Makes 0 sense.

Tell me 1 boxer in smaller weight during 20-40s as fast athletic as 00s pacquiao

Tell me 1 boxer from sm or lh from 20-50s as fast and athletic as 90s jones

Tell me 1 boxer from 20-50s at hw as fast and athletic as 80s tyson 10s joshua

Tell me 1 boxer except robinson at ww as fast and athletic as 80s leonard

So with litle exception with 2-3 boxer like young clay and robinson from 1920 till 1960 you wont fight 0 boxer of the talent level wether its Speed, reflexes, athletiscm of jones, leonard, whitacker, tyson, mayweather, pacquaio, hearns, lomachenko, yet boxer from 1920-1960 are rated much higher than boxer from 1980-2018.

Makes 0 sense.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

If training is so much better why are fights fought at such a drastically slower pace and stamina still being an issue for many top fighters?

[IKSRTFO]

Cotto was good against floyd.

Do u think those unathletic old timer boxer wouldve touched floyd?

I look at the footages and see slow, stiff boxer. Not all. Some exceptions here and there. But overall.

J. Johnson wouldve been to slow and weak for 80s tyson

All 147-154 boxer except robinson & armstrong wouldve not been able to catch floyd

One good night against an ATG doesn't mean someone is automatically top 50 all time. By your theory, Castillo and Maidana should also be top 50.

[IKSRTFO]

I will include some good old boxers.

New boxer, 1970-2018 became just better, more athletic over time, like in every single other sport. Footballer from the past look stiiff and slow compared to footballer today. Back than 10 sec was a world record time, now athletes run 9,60 sec in 100 m. Basketballplayer were unathletic slow to guys like jordan, iverson & james.

Everything Evolved, so did boxing. Than there are rare exceptions of athletes who were so athletic, so good, that they would have been elite no matter 1950 or 2020. Wilt chamberlain, maradona & pele, ali, robinson....etc..

If anything, boxing regressed. Fighters today fight less often, in shorter fights and against a smaller talent pool, trained by a smaller pool of coaches. This isn't the case with most other sports.

Training methods in boxing technique haven't changed much either.

You dont know what you are talking about.

Training, nutrition, recuperation, everything changed. Athletes became faster bigger stronger. But in boxing all stayed the same. Makes 0 sense.

Tell me 1 boxer in smaller weight during 20-40s as fast athletic as 00s pacquiao

Tell me 1 boxer from sm or lh from 20-50s as fast and athletic as 90s jones

Tell me 1 boxer from 20-50s at hw as fast and athletic as 80s tyson 10s joshua

Tell me 1 boxer except robinson at ww as fast and athletic as 80s leonard

So with litle exception with 2-3 boxer like young clay and robinson from 1920 till 1960 you wont fight 0 boxer of the talent level wether its Speed, reflexes, athletiscm of jones, leonard, whitacker, tyson, mayweather, pacquaio, hearns, lomachenko, yet boxer from 1920-1960 are rated much higher than boxer from 1980-2018.

Makes 0 sense.

For the hundredth time, "fast and athletic" doesn't automatically make anyone greater a sport.

[Jip]

If anything, boxing regressed. Fighters today fight less often, in shorter fights and against a smaller talent pool, trained by a smaller pool of coaches. This isn't the case with most other sports.

Training methods in boxing technique haven't changed much either.

You dont know what you are talking about.

Training, nutrition, recuperation, everything changed. Athletes became faster bigger stronger. But in boxing all stayed the same. Makes 0 sense.

Tell me 1 boxer in smaller weight during 20-40s as fast athletic as 00s pacquiao

Tell me 1 boxer from sm or lh from 20-50s as fast and athletic as 90s jones

Tell me 1 boxer from 20-50s at hw as fast and athletic as 80s tyson 10s joshua

Tell me 1 boxer except robinson at ww as fast and athletic as 80s leonard

So with litle exception with 2-3 boxer like young clay and robinson from 1920 till 1960 you wont fight 0 boxer of the talent level wether its Speed, reflexes, athletiscm of jones, leonard, whitacker, tyson, mayweather, pacquaio, hearns, lomachenko, yet boxer from 1920-1960 are rated much higher than boxer from 1980-2018.

Makes 0 sense.

For the hundredth time, "fast and athletic" doesn't automatically make anyone greater a sport.

Fast and athletic is unimportant u say, but every single top atg elite boxer was fast and athletic. Floyd, srr, leonard, clay, loma, pac, hearns, whitacker.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

That is up there with your dumbest statements

[Jip]

If anything, boxing regressed. Fighters today fight less often, in shorter fights and against a smaller talent pool, trained by a smaller pool of coaches. This isn't the case with most other sports.

Training methods in boxing technique haven't changed much either.

You dont know what you are talking about.

Training, nutrition, recuperation, everything changed. Athletes became faster bigger stronger. But in boxing all stayed the same. Makes 0 sense.

Tell me 1 boxer in smaller weight during 20-40s as fast athletic as 00s pacquiao

Tell me 1 boxer from sm or lh from 20-50s as fast and athletic as 90s jones

Tell me 1 boxer from 20-50s at hw as fast and athletic as 80s tyson 10s joshua

Tell me 1 boxer except robinson at ww as fast and athletic as 80s leonard

So with litle exception with 2-3 boxer like young clay and robinson from 1920 till 1960 you wont fight 0 boxer of the talent level wether its Speed, reflexes, athletiscm of jones, leonard, whitacker, tyson, mayweather, pacquaio, hearns, lomachenko, yet boxer from 1920-1960 are rated much higher than boxer from 1980-2018.

Makes 0 sense.

Fighters became bigger and stronger? Don't you know how weights work in boxing?

How did training change? I mean technique training in boxing (not other sports) Tell me the specifics.

You've used 80s Tyson as a modern example? His peak was 30 years ago. By your logic, modern fighters should be far faster and much bigger punchers than some primitive 80s guy with his 30 year old skills. You've actually just disproved your own theory with that one

Tyson just like ali or robinson was in exceptional rare talent no matter 80 or today.
Tyson himself said that today he would be better based in nutrition and training.

You couldnt give me 1 single answer. Poor.

Supercompensation. Ocygen factor.
When to train, when to rest, recuperate. What minerals, vitamines nutritionswise to take. Even so far the temperatur of water to drink. Cold chambers. Physiotherapie, massage, chiropractic, everything envolving reducing stress, reduce muscle pain to benefit the boxer to train harder without getting hurt, having less % chances to get hurt, muscle pain can always occour, at the end boxing is a brutal sport. Electrotherapie, nerv therapie. Stretch. Etc.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

How do you know no footage greb was slow?

[gilgamesh]

How do you know no footage greb was slow?

Maybe he's gonna pull a Kalan, and say that he was there to see it when they showed it in a theater back in 1938

[SaadOffTheDeck]

How do you know no footage greb was slow?

Maybe he's gonna pull a Kalan, and say that he was there to see it when they showed it in a theater back in 1938

Or the footage of him clowning around.

[Heretic]

Here is my list of the best boxers ever from the beginning of the time. (Only listing Vitali Klitchko)

1. Vitali Klitchko

On a more serious note...

Anyone thinking that training has not evolved in boxing is... hmmm how to put this politely... Not that sharp.

Training and chemistry both have gone miles forward from the times of Ali. Not to even mention the times before that. Boxers are faster and stronger than before.

Boxers from different eras cannot and should not be compared. Its a whole another game nova days.

For example Ali would be cruiserweight in todays era. In the last 20 years how many guys originally from cruiser were able to catch and defend Heavy weight title? Holyfield and Haye? Any others? I know there have been loads of people trying...

Also the amount of weight cutting in the lower divisions today would mean the fighters of yesterday would be fighting one or two weight classes lower than they used to.

Comparing the eras is futile and useless

[gilgamesh]

Here is my list of the best boxers ever from the beginning of the time. (Only listing Vitali Klitchko)

1. Vitali Klitchko

On a more serious note...

Anyone thinking that training has not evolved in boxing is... hmmm how to put this politely... Not that sharp.

Training and chemistry both have gone miles forward from the times of Ali. Not to even mention the times before that. Boxers are faster and stronger than before.

Boxers from different eras cannot and should not be compared. Its a whole another game nova days.

For example Ali would be cruiserweight in todays era. In the last 20 years how many guys originally from cruiser were able to catch and defend Heavy weight title? Holyfield and Haye? Any others? I know there have been loads of people trying...

Also the amount of weight cutting in the lower divisions today would mean the fighters of yesterday would be fighting one or two weight classes lower than they used to.

Comparing the eras is futile and useless

Joe Louis was only around 190/195 pounds when he was the Heavyweight Champion. he knocked out both Primo Carnera, and Buddy Baer. Both of whom were the size of Modern Day Super Heavyweights.

While training MAY have improved in regards to physical conditioning (that's a maybe), it has definitely slacked up in regards to actually developing technical skill and craft, many of the fighters of the past had tricks up their sleeves that modern fighters wouldn't even know how to attempt to emulate.

[gilgamesh]

Explain the changes to training then. I'm not talking about fitness training, that can apply to any sport and I don't see evidence that modern fighters are better conditioned that fighters of old anyway.

Fighters of old went 15 rounds or more in the even further distant past. There are many guys in the modern era who gas after 6 or 7 rounds. Including Champions.

Jean Pascal for instance. Very good physical conditioning. I don't think anybody would've ever accused him of being lazy. But he was always a 6 or 7 round fighter. You get into the 2nd half against him, and you're world class. You have the edge. Every time.

James Degale fits that description too. Gasses in the 2nd half. Every. Single. Time.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

Not only do they gas, but the pace is much slower on average.

[IKSRTFO]

Not only do they gas, but the pace is much slower on average.

Even in the 90s it was a much faster pace. Bowe Holifield were supremely conditioned. Bowe at 6'4 245lbs fought at a faster pace than Wilder and Joshua.

[Heretic]

You do realize there is other aspects to fitness than just stamina? Like speed, power and strength. Does it matter if you can box full steam on for 15 rounds if you get manhandled and KTFO in the first round?

[Heretic]

Supercompensation. Ocygen factor.
When to train, when to rest, recuperate. What minerals, vitamines nutritionswise to take. Even so far the temperatur of water to drink. Cold chambers. Physiotherapie, massage, chiropractic, everything envolving reducing stress, reduce muscle pain to benefit the boxer to train harder without getting hurt, having less % chances to get hurt, muscle pain can always occour, at the end boxing is a brutal sport. Electrotherapie, nerv therapie. Stretch. Etc.

Jip is on the right tracks here. The sports science has gone a long way forward in the last decade alone.

[IKSRTFO]

You do realize there is other aspects to fitness than just stamina? Like speed, power and strength. Does it matter if you can box full steam on for 15 rounds if you get manhandled and KTFO in the first round?

Of course it matters, but it's not the end all solution to if a boxer will be great is. There are other attributes like actual skill and heart which also matter. Just because boxers are "stronger and faster" doesn't mean they're better especially in a sport like boxing which also relies on attributes other than speed/power as opposed to sprinting. It also doesn't mean they're more fitter if that. Fitness is more than being athletic, strong and quick. Boxers today just don't seem to be as conditioned as before. It's a lot of Frank Brunos who can run fast, squat loads of weight, but can't last the distance.

[Jip]

Fighters became bigger and stronger? Don't you know how weights work in boxing?

How did training change? I mean technique training in boxing (not other sports) Tell me the specifics.

You've used 80s Tyson as a modern example? His peak was 30 years ago. By your logic, modern fighters should be far faster and much bigger punchers than some primitive 80s guy with his 30 year old skills. You've actually just disproved your own theory with that one

Tyson just like ali or robinson was in exceptional rare talent no matter 80 or today.
Tyson himself said that today he would be better based in nutrition and training.

You couldnt give me 1 single answer. Poor.

Supercompensation. Ocygen factor.
When to train, when to rest, recuperate. What minerals, vitamines nutritionswise to take. Even so far the temperatur of water to drink. Cold chambers. Physiotherapie, massage, chiropractic, everything envolving reducing stress, reduce muscle pain to benefit the boxer to train harder without getting hurt, having less % chances to get hurt, muscle pain can always occour, at the end boxing is a brutal sport. Electrotherapie, nerv therapie. Stretch. Etc.

Those are FITNESS techniques dumbass, I asked you for technique training 'improvements'. You and Kalan are in this dream world where you think fitness and boxing skill are the same thing. The fitter the guy, the better the boxer; it simply isn't true. Perhaps you should join a boxing gym and find out for yourself that there is skill involved in this sport. Bizarrely, you claim to be an expert at spotting talent but today you think talent and fitness are the same thing.

While we talking about fitness, David Haye does all of those things and is one of the healthiest athletes in any sport and he can't go beyond 6 rounds without gassing. Can you explain why?

What doyou mean by technique training?

Do u think fitness is and recuperation physiotherapie and all the other stuff i wrote is unimportant?


Marquez had an equaly good technique than floyd. The reason he lost 12-0 rds was because floyd was faster, way more athletic, sharper. But in your nonsense logic being athletic and fast doesnt play no role. Tiney was in technique equal if not better than roy. The reason he lost is bevause roy was twice as fast and athletic than james.