Tommy Hearns Vs. Floyd Mayweather Jr

[gilgamesh]

Being tall and athletic does give you an advantage... It didn't help Tommy that he was taller and rangier than Leonard, Hagler, and Barkley.. Barkley was fairly tall but Hearns had much longer arms... But that didn't help him.

You'll agree that you have to be able to use those assets... Hearns did well with the more hittable and punchable Wilfred Benitez -- who was knocked out several times in his career.. They both scored knock downs, but Hearns couldn't stop the hittable Benitez at 154, a much better weight for Tommy. After all Leonard stopped Benitez earlier -- why couldn't Hearns do it??? ... What makes you think he could do the much more elusive, skilled, and smarter Mayweather if he couldn't get Benitez out??? ... Benitez was finished early he was getting beat to trash so much.

The "Hittable" Benitez. You realize that Benitez was known as The Radar, and was a very defensively skilled boxer right?

Did you ever see the stoppage of Leonard vs Benitez? Certainly didn't look like a case where Benitez couldn't have continued considering it was the 15th round, but it didn't really matter.

Benitez was finished early because he didn't have the discipline outside the ring to maintain his skill and fitness. He was a party animal.

Barkley was in fact every bit as tall as Tommy Hearns.

Against Marvin, Tommy just fought a dumb fight strategically. He came out looking to slug it out with Marvin and KO him. Obviously that plan backfired, but it resulted in a great fight for the fans.

[Controversial]

FMM only had 12 fights at welterweight and only stopped 3, Hatton (who was a natural light welterweight), Mitchell (who was stopped in all his defeats and not a natural welterweight) and Ortiz (we all know how that one happened), his power wouldn't have troubled Hearns

It would have... Because Tommy was so hittable like Ricky Hatton (who was 43-0 and had never been knocked out before) and Floyd would be laying one shot after another... He wouldn't go in 3 rounds... But 9 or 10 rounds of constant pounding on a weak chin and Hearns is gone.

You see...Hearns got hit by Barkley and dropped 3 times in 2 fights...and knocked out and beaten on points as well... And Barkley couldn't do that do good defenders like Kalambay, Nunn, Sims, Toney and other good boxers and defenders who he fought.

FMM isn't a middleweight for starters so the Barkley fight is irrelevant, unless your saying FMM and Barkley are somehow similar in style and size? We are taking about Hearns and Mayweather at welterweight.

[gilgamesh]

FMM only had 12 fights at welterweight and only stopped 3, Hatton (who was a natural light welterweight), Mitchell (who was stopped in all his defeats and not a natural welterweight) and Ortiz (we all know how that one happened), his power wouldn't have troubled Hearns

It would have... Because Tommy was so hittable like Ricky Hatton (who was 43-0 and had never been knocked out before) and Floyd would be laying one shot after another... He wouldn't go in 3 rounds... But 9 or 10 rounds of constant pounding on a weak chin and Hearns is gone.

You see...Hearns got hit by Barkley and dropped 3 times in 2 fights...and knocked out and beaten on points as well... And Barkley couldn't do that do good defenders like Kalambay, Nunn, Sims, Toney and other good boxers and defenders who he fought.

FMM isn't a middleweight for starters so the Barkley fight is irrelevant, unless your saying FMM and Barkley are somehow similar in style and size? We are taking about Hearns and Mayweather at welterweight.

And they're definitely not similar in either regard.

[Kalan]

It would have... Because Tommy was so hittable like Ricky Hatton (who was 43-0 and had never been knocked out before) and Floyd would be laying one shot after another... He wouldn't go in 3 rounds... But 9 or 10 rounds of constant pounding on a weak chin and Hearns is gone.

You see...Hearns got hit by Barkley and dropped 3 times in 2 fights...and knocked out and beaten on points as well... And Barkley couldn't do that do good defenders like Kalambay, Nunn, Sims, Toney and other good boxers and defenders who he fought.

FMM isn't a middleweight for starters so the Barkley fight is irrelevant, unless your saying FMM and Barkley are somehow similar in style and size? We are taking about Hearns and Mayweather at welterweight.

And they're definitely not similar in either regard

If you're talking about a style that gets punched and beaten and knocked out (like Barkley's) -- they certainly weren't.

[gilgamesh]

How is it that sometimes size is the only thing that matters to you, and in this case you seem completely oblivious to it?

You're all up on Joshua and the Klitschko's balls because they're so big they'd defeat all the Heavyweights of the past right? Marciano, Dempsey and Joe Louis were small guys that couldn't hang with these giants right?

So now you're gonna go against your own usual logic and say that Mayweather the significantly smaller man is going to be able to defeat the much bigger, stronger, taller, harder punching Hearns?

Explain that without saying the name Iran Barkley, because if that's all you got you're still ignoring the reality of what a matchup between Hearns and Mayweather would look like physically. Mayweather ain't as big as Iran Barkley. He doesn't have the power to hurt Tommy with one punch. He doesn't have the power to hurt Tommy at all in fact.

[Kalan]

How is it that sometimes size is the only thing that matters to you, and in this case you seem completely oblivious to it?

You're all up on Joshua and the Klitschko's balls because they're so big they'd defeat all the Heavyweights of the past right? Marciano, Dempsey and Joe Louis were small guys that couldn't hang with these giants right?

So now you're gonna go against your own usual logic and say that Mayweather the significantly smaller man is going to be able to defeat the much bigger, stronger, taller, harder punching Hearns?

Explain that without saying the name Iran Barkley, because if that's all you got you're still ignoring the reality of what a matchup between Hearns and Mayweather would look like physically. Mayweather ain't as big as Iran Barkley. He doesn't have the power to hurt Tommy with one punch. He doesn't have the power to hurt Tommy at all in fact

You know.. You're a little like BuzzBox and don't take anything in the context that I say it.. Size only matters if you have athletic ability, vision, smarts, endurance, toughness, and other assets to take advantage of of your height... Hearns wouldn't have a big size advantage.. He'd have a height and reach advantage.. Leonard and Hagler showed us that those 2 advantages could easily be overcome with greater smarts, toughness, intelligence, endurance, and basically having the whole ball of wax like Floyd Mayweather had.

[gilgamesh]

How is it that sometimes size is the only thing that matters to you, and in this case you seem completely oblivious to it?

You're all up on Joshua and the Klitschko's balls because they're so big they'd defeat all the Heavyweights of the past right? Marciano, Dempsey and Joe Louis were small guys that couldn't hang with these giants right?

So now you're gonna go against your own usual logic and say that Mayweather the significantly smaller man is going to be able to defeat the much bigger, stronger, taller, harder punching Hearns?

Explain that without saying the name Iran Barkley, because if that's all you got you're still ignoring the reality of what a matchup between Hearns and Mayweather would look like physically. Mayweather ain't as big as Iran Barkley. He doesn't have the power to hurt Tommy with one punch. He doesn't have the power to hurt Tommy at all in fact

You know.. You're a little like BuzzBox and don't take anything in the context that I say it.. Size only matters if you have athletic ability, vision, smarts, endurance, toughness, and other assets to take advantage of of your height... Hearns wouldn't have a big size advantage.. He'd have a height and reach advantage.. Leonard and Hagler showed us that those 2 advantages could easily be overcome with greater smarts, toughness, intelligence, endurance, and basically having the whole ball of wax like Floyd Mayweather had.

On what planet was Leonard's win over Hearns easy? It took him 14 rounds, and costs him a detached retina to beat Tommy Hearns. You call that easy?

He was losing the fight to Tommy prior to the come from behind KO. Tommy was outboxing Leonard.

[Kalan]

[Mayweather] doesn't have the power to hurt Tommy at all in fact

Are you trying to be ridiculous or what??? ... Hatton had never been knocked out before.. Victor Ortiz had never been counted out before.. Did Hearns have an iron chin or something to where Floyd couldn't even hurt him??? ... Were Kalambay, Nunn, and Benn ever knocked out??? (YES) ... Could Iran Barkley knock them out??? (NO) ... Could he be beaten by them??? (YES) -- Yet he nailed Hearns to the floor.

Floyd actually wanted to go up and fight 6'1" X 170 Jermain Taylor after he beat Oscar De La Hoya (who was probably 20 pounds heavier than Floyd) ... His dad and uncle strongly advised against it.. They've been hit by much bigger guys they and couldn't take it.. Floyd has been hit by much bigger fighters and he HAS taken it well.. Floyd has never been down other than a glove touch (the referee waved it off because he didn't even see the glove touch it happened so fast).. He has a pretty solid chin when he needed it.

Floyd doesn't have a weaker chin than Wilfred Benitez---who Ray Leonard knocked down with a left jab... Benitez went the distance with Hearns and it's a matter of whether Floyd could out-point Hearns over 12 rounds or stop him... Floyd is the number one ranked boxer in history on Boxrec.com and Hearns isn't in the top 20.. Hearns' 5 inch height and reach advantages can be overcome with better timing.. Leonard timed Hearns for big shots.. So did Hagler.. So did Barkley.. It's a matter of Tommy giving Floyd visual clues that he can zone in on to hurt Tommy -- and get him out.

And Leonard had a harder time with Hearns because he was more hittable than Floyd... Even low ranking Welterweight Kevin Howard timed Leonard's leads and lined Sugar Ray up for right hands... And knocked SRL to the canvas... Floyd is 100 times the boxer Kevin Howard was.

[gilgamesh]

Mayweather ain't 6'1. Mayweather ain't 160 pounds. Mayweather ain't Barkley. Boxing skill doesn't equate to KO power no matter how much you'd like it too to fit your narrative.

Tommy would beat too much for Floyd. Guaranteed.

I don't know why I even bother arguing with this teenager who pretends he's an old man

[Kalan]

Mayweather ain't 6'1. Mayweather ain't 160 pounds. Mayweather ain't Barkley. Boxing skill doesn't equate to KO power no matter how much you'd like it too to fit your narrative.

Tommy would beat too much for Floyd. Guaranteed

You know nothing about me - much less my age... Height guarantees nothing... Very short David Tua blasted out much taller John Ruiz and Michael Moorer in short order for one reason... He could hit them... Duran knocked down and beat the much taller and bigger Barkley because Barkley lacked a defense and Duran could hit Barkley... Archie Moore knocked out the much bigger and taller Alejandro Lavorente because he could hit him.. Harry Greb beat bigger and taller men because he could hit them... Rigondeaux beat the bigger and taller Donaire because he could tag him... Miguel Cotto beat the much bigger and taller Daniel Geale because he could hit him with ease.

Tommy Hearns could be reached and Barkley (who wasn't that slick) proved it .. Simple as that.

[gilgamesh]

Mayweather ain't 6'1. Mayweather ain't 160 pounds. Mayweather ain't Barkley. Boxing skill doesn't equate to KO power no matter how much you'd like it too to fit your narrative.

Tommy would beat too much for Floyd. Guaranteed

You know nothing about me - much less my age... Height guarantees nothing... Very short David Tua blasted out much taller John Ruiz and Michael Moorer in short order for one reason... He could hit them... Duran knocked down and beat the much taller and bigger Barkley because Barkley lacked a defense and Duran could hit Barkley... Archie Moore knocked out the much bigger and taller Alejandro Lavorente because he could hit him.. Harry Greb beat bigger and taller men because he could hit them... Rigondeaux beat the bigger and taller Donaire because he could tag him... Miguel Cotto beat the much bigger and taller Daniel Geale because he could hit him with ease.

Tommy Hearns could be reached and Barkley (who wasn't that slick) proved it .. Simple as that.

He couldn't be outboxed though. Nobody ever outboxed Tommy. Floyd ain't a puncher. He'd have to outbox Tommy, and he couldn't do it. If you think he's gonna suddenly becoming a tank that could walk right through Tommy in spite of the fact that he never fought like that, you're free to keep your delusion.

[Controversial]

Tommy Hearns could be reached and Barkley (who wasn't that slick) proved it .. Simple as that.

Styles makes fights, he could reach him because they were the same size, how many little guys outboxed Hearns at welterweight?

[Kalan]

Mayweather ain't 6'1. Mayweather ain't 160 pounds. Mayweather ain't Barkley. Boxing skill doesn't equate to KO power no matter how much you'd like it too to fit your narrative.

Tommy would beat too much for Floyd. Guaranteed

You know nothing about me - much less my age... Height guarantees nothing... Very short David Tua blasted out much taller John Ruiz and Michael Moorer in short order for one reason... He could hit them... Duran knocked down and beat the much taller and bigger Barkley because Barkley lacked a defense and Duran could hit Barkley... Archie Moore knocked out the much bigger and taller Alejandro Lavorente because he could hit him.. Harry Greb beat bigger and taller men because he could hit them... Rigondeaux beat the bigger and taller Donaire because he could tag him... Miguel Cotto beat the much bigger and taller Daniel Geale because he could hit him with ease.

Tommy Hearns could be reached and Barkley (who wasn't that slick) proved it .. Simple as that.

He couldn't be outboxed though. Nobody ever outboxed Tommy. Floyd ain't a puncher. He'd have to outbox Tommy, and he couldn't do it. If you think he's gonna suddenly becoming a tank that could walk right through Tommy in spite of the fact that he never fought like that, you're free to keep your delusion

WRONG!!!! ... Hearns DUCKED the best boxers in the Middleweight/Light Heavyweight Divisions of his day: Michael Nunn... Mike McCallum... James Toney... Reggie Johnson... Although the crude and slow Iran Barkley easily outpointed Hearns---who couldn't box that great---none of the fabulous fistic wizards of that period were able to get Tommy into a boxing ring...

After Hearns drew with Leonard there were many great Middleweight boxers in the division.. Hearns didn't try to redeem himself with any of them because he knew they would box his skinny ass off -- and tag his China-chin all over the place.. After Iran Barkley knocked Hearns stiff -- are you saying guys like Kalambay, Nunn, Benn, and Toney who all beat Barkley -- couldn't do the same for Hearns???

Benn was no fistic wizard like the rest of them...but he was tough and strong... Too much for skinny Tommy. He got Barkley out in 1.

[gilgamesh]

Newsflash: We're talking about Tommy Hearns, The Welterweight

Middleweight/Light Heavyweight Tommy is irrelevant to this conversation

[Kalan]

Floyd wasn't very big, but I see him outboxing Barkley.. Hearns.. Kalambay.. Benn.. Jermain Taylor.. and a few other Middleweight Champions.

Mayweather beat 3 HOF caliber Middleweight Champions: Oscar De La Hoya... Saul Alvarez.. and Miguel Cotto... and lost to nobody.

Hearns got knocked out by Middleweight Champions: Marvin Hagler... Iran Barkley... and Sugar Ray Leonard... Never happened to Floyd.

Newsflash... It's all relevant because it proves how weak Hearns was -- and how tough Mayweather was to beat much bigger guys like that.

[gilgamesh]

Floyd wasn't very big, but I see him outboxing Barkley.. Hearns.. Kalambay.. Benn.. Jermain Taylor.. and a few other Middleweight Champions.

Mayweather beat 3 HOF caliber Middleweight Champions: Oscar De La Hoya... Saul Alvarez.. and Miguel Cotto... and lost to nobody.

Hearns got knocked out by Middleweight Champions: Marvin Hagler... Iran Barkley... and Sugar Ray Leonard... Never happened to Floyd.

Newsflash... It's all relevant because it proves how weak Hearns was -- and how tough Mayweather was to beat much bigger guys like that.

De La Hoya never should've had the accolade "Middleweight Champion" added to his legacy. He lost the fight to Sturm, the judges just gave it to him because the big PPV fight with Hopkins was right around the corner, and Sturm winning would've blown it.

Hearns would outbox and KO De La Hoya, Alvarez and Cotto.

Hagler would've ran through Mayweather. The Middleweight Leonard deserved to lose to Hearns. The Welterweight Leonard is who stopped Hearns.

[SaadOffTheDeck]

The real comedy is this buffoon denouncing one of histories most skilled boxers raves about the primitive talents of Valero. Talk about a weak chin.

[gilgamesh]

If you can't simply watch Valero and then watch Tommy Hearns and not instantly see the massive difference in the level of talent they're displaying in their performance then you have no understanding of Boxing whatsoever.

I would assume you've never actually watched Tommy watch, and have only heard about his record. You being the simple minded guy you are see that he lost 5 fights, and therefore he can't be good.

You of course are gonna deny this, but I get the feeling I'm dead on.

[p4p1]

Mosley was closer to 39 than 38 though. So it's not ridiculous to say Mosley was 39

It is too... It's not accurate is it??? ... Otherwise you could go out drinking or go and vote before you're 18 years old.

"Wait!! You don't understand judge...I'll be 18 in 3 months." .... "Good...then wait until you're 18 before you say you're 18."

It's much more accurate than 99% of the shit that comes out of your head.

[Kalan]

The real comedy is this buffoon denouncing one of histories most skilled boxers raves about the primitive talents of Valero. Talk about a weak chin

I assume you're really stupid from all the ridiculous things you spout gilgamesh.. I saw Hearns get knocked out by huge underdog Iran Barkley---a guy who lost his next 3 fights and then beat his next opponent who had a 4-11 record only by robbery decision after nearly getting knocked out... I saw Hearns get knocked out on other occasions and he certainly had a talent for catching KO shots to the head ... and getting flattened..

This guy SaadOff thinks Valero had a weak chin.. Name another 2-Division World Champion who was never stopped... won all his fights... and won them all by KO... Valero even forbade his corner to stop his last fight with DeMarco because of a dangerous 3-inch gash he received on his forehead from an elbow... He didn't want a Technical Decision win.. He wanted to maintain his perfect KO record -- which he did -- over a guy who stopped Jorge Linares.. He could certainly box and punch well enough to have a perfect ring record including World Title Fights.

Valero didn't have a weak chin, but he should've had a weak chin... Before his career started he got into a high speed motorcycle accident without a helmet.. He needed numerous surgeries for skull fractures and brain damage...and it took him many months to recover.. The smashup didn't damage his chin, but it damaged his psyche in certain areas.. That's tragic, but shitty things happen in life that are totally out of one's control.

[Kalan]

Mosley was closer to 39 than 38 though. So it's not ridiculous to say Mosley was 39

It is too... It's not accurate is it??? ... Otherwise you could go out drinking or go and vote before you're 18 years old.

"Wait!! You don't understand judge...I'll be 18 in 3 months." .... "Good...then wait until you're 18 before you say you're 18."

It's much more accurate than 99% of the poo that comes out of your head.

Your head is make out of shitt.. That's why you can't produce an argument and defend liars.

[p4p1]

It is too... It's not accurate is it??? ... Otherwise you could go out drinking or go and vote before you're 18 years old.

"Wait!! You don't understand judge...I'll be 18 in 3 months." .... "Good...then wait until you're 18 before you say you're 18."

It's much more accurate than 99% of the poo that comes out of your head.

Your head is make out of shitt.. That's why you can't produce an argument and defend liars.

All valid arguments anyone makes go straight over your head so I don't see the point.

[Kalan]

It's much more accurate than 99% of the poo that comes out of your head.

Your head is make out of shitt.. That's why you can't produce an argument and defend liars.

All valid arguments anyone makes go straight over your head so I don't see the point.

You don't see anything because you're a dolt.

[Kalan]

One other point I would make is that Hatton was not in his prime for the Floyd fight. Yes he was prime age wise and undefeated but he was never a true welterweight and had struggled badly in his previous fight at the weight (Collazo). A fighter is in the their prime when they're at their absolute best and Hatton was not at his best at welterweight.

For the record, he wouldn't have beaten Floyd at 140 either but the point I'm making is that Hatton's name shouldn't be on the list of "prime fighters that Floyd beat".

You’re talking about prime as though it’s peak.. Your peak is your absolute best.. Your prime is the significant portion of your career when you achieve a competent skill level to when age overtakes you and you start to decline...generally 8 to 15 years in a 10 to 20 year career – though it could be longer or shorter.

Hatton had great difficulty making 140 at that time.. He was a true Welterweight.. He just didn't have world-class skills... He looked wasted weighing in for Pacquiao... Most fighters aren't the perfect size for their weight class... You generally have to accommodate a few pounds whatever weight class you decide to compete in.

[gilgamesh]

Tommy is one of only a handful of fighters to have held Champions in 5 weight classes. Mayweather is among that handful as well, but the way he's being talked about in this thread by Kalan you'd think Tommy Hearns was some schmo, not a fighter that achieved something only a select few have. It's almost as if he don't know sh*t about Hearns