Top 50 ever (without old boxer)

[gilgamesh]

The footage of Willie Pep on film would usually be well into his career after suffering a major injury in a plane crash, and after having already fought a sh*t load of fights.

By the time you're seeing him there looking slower than Loma and Rigo, he's already had at least 5 or 6 times as many Professional fights as both of them combined.

That fight with Famechon was his 150 Prize fight

[Jip]

The footage of Willie Pep on film would usually be well into his career after suffering a major injury in a plane crash, and after having already fought a sh*t load of fights.

By the time you're seeing him there looking slower than Loma and Rigo, he's already had at least 5 or 6 times as many Professional fights as both of them combined.

That fight with Famechon was his 150 Prize fight

Hello, How u doing?

i know pepp.

[gilgamesh]

I assumed you knew Pep. Was just pointing out logical reasons why he would've been a little slower of hand and foot at the time than the likes of Rigo and Loma. At his peak I doubt he was slower than them at all. Possibly faster. Though we'll never know for sure as I don't believe there's any pre-Plane crash footage of Pep in the ring, but the fact that he had the unbeaten run he did would certainly suggest he was an absolute marvel in his prime.

[Counter-puncher]

The version that fought floyd would beat a lot of atg

even by his standards, a beauty

[Jip]

I assumed you knew Pep. Was just pointing out logical reasons why he would've been a little slower of hand and foot at the time than the likes of Rigo and Loma. At his peak I doubt he was slower than them at all. Possibly faster. Though we'll never know for sure as I don't believe there's any pre-Plane crash footage of Pep in the ring, but the fact that he had the unbeaten run he did would certainly suggest he was an absolute marvel in his prime.

Prime loma arguably has the best footwork ever. His upperbody overall agility is also from another galaxy.

Pepp indeed is a boxing genius. I never doubted that. I just say loma is a better boxer. But i like them both very much.

[Jip]

Please people. It is christmas time and i am in a good mood. Please dont make to many stupid comments that have 0 logic. I dont want to say negativ stuff but when some of you are too stupid i cant resist.

[Counter-puncher]

Please dont make to many stupid comments that have 0 logic. I dont want to say negativ stuff but when some of you are too stupid i cant resist.

you're a riot, kid

[jewboypgh]

Gilgy,

I beg to differ. for starters, Greb should be at the top of any list. Numbers don't ever lie. Great fighters, but having Sam Langford and Ezzard Charles ahead of greb and pep is a fallacy. Eder Jofre shouldn't even be in the top 100.

Just for the hell of it. Here's my Top 50 ever. I didn't put a lot of thought into it so things could be changed around, but I'm sure I put a lot more thought into than Jip. He'd apparently just name the first 50 boxers that come to mind.

Top 50 Boxers ever (with old...because if you're talking Best ever, you're talking old school fighters)

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Sam Langford
3. Ezzard Charles
4. Harry Greb
5. Henry Armstrong
6. Willie Pep
7. Roberto Duran
8. Muhammad Ali
9. Archie Moore
10. Sugar Ray Leonard
11. Joe Louis
12. Benny Leonard
13. Gene Tunney
14. Mickey Walker
15. Barney Ross
16. Joe Gans
17. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
18. Charley Burley
19. Marvin Hagler
20. Sandy Saddler
21. Ike Williams
22. Thomas Hearns
23. Tony Canzoneri
24. Manny Pacquiao
25. Bob Fitzsimmons
26. Evander Holyfield
27. Pernell Whitaker
28. Bernard Hopkins
29. Larry Holmes
30. Michael Spinks
31. George Foreman
32. Bob Foster
33. Stanley Ketchel
34. Harold Johnson
35. Alexis Arguello
36. Roy Jones Jr.
37. Wilfredo "Bazooka" Gomez
38. Jimmy Wilde
39. Julio Cesar Chavez
40. Emile Griffith
41. Lennox Lewis
42. Erik Morales
43. Marco Antonio Barrera
44. Billy Conn
45. Eder Jofre
46. Mike McCallum
47. Aaron Pryor
48. Carlos Ortiz
49. Nicoline Locche
50. Jack Dempsey

[gilgamesh]

I assumed you knew Pep. Was just pointing out logical reasons why he would've been a little slower of hand and foot at the time than the likes of Rigo and Loma. At his peak I doubt he was slower than them at all. Possibly faster. Though we'll never know for sure as I don't believe there's any pre-Plane crash footage of Pep in the ring, but the fact that he had the unbeaten run he did would certainly suggest he was an absolute marvel in his prime.

Prime loma arguably has the best footwork ever. His upperbody overall agility is also from another galaxy.

Pepp indeed is a boxing genius. I never doubted that. I just say loma is a better boxer. But i like them both very much.

How do you know Pep isn't a better boxer though. You're not seeing him at his absolute peak, and even the past prime version you're seeing is absolutely marvelous.

I will give it to you though that I've personally never seen better footwork in the modern era than Loma's. His foot speed is absolutely phenomenal. He's able to not only make guys miss, but make them miss and then wind up beside them or behind them for a counter often. Really brilliant.

[gilgamesh]

Gilgy,

I beg to differ. for starters, Greb should be at the top of any list. Numbers don't ever lie. Great fighters, but having Sam Langford and Ezzard Charles ahead of greb and pep is a fallacy. Eder Jofre shouldn't even be in the top 100.

I ranked the Top 5 really in no particular order. They're all Gods of Boxing as far as I'm concerned.

[Jip]

I assumed you knew Pep. Was just pointing out logical reasons why he would've been a little slower of hand and foot at the time than the likes of Rigo and Loma. At his peak I doubt he was slower than them at all. Possibly faster. Though we'll never know for sure as I don't believe there's any pre-Plane crash footage of Pep in the ring, but the fact that he had the unbeaten run he did would certainly suggest he was an absolute marvel in his prime.

Prime loma arguably has the best footwork ever. His upperbody overall agility is also from another galaxy.

Pepp indeed is a boxing genius. I never doubted that. I just say loma is a better boxer. But i like them both very much.

How do you know Pep isn't a better boxer though. You're not seeing him at his absolute peak, and even the past prime version you're seeing is absolutely marvelous.

I will give it to you though that I've personally never seen better footwork in the modern era than Loma's. His foot speed is absolutely phenomenal. He's able to not only make guys miss, but make them miss and then wind up beside them or behind them for a counter often. Really brilliant.

Very good summary

[Jip]

For the passionate about atg more focused on number of fights, than a top 5 atg like this would be realistic.

1. Wilie Pepp
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Harry Greb
5. Muhammad Ali

I mean even in a old school list i cant put langford in the top 5. He has so many losses and draws combined around 60. Its just bad.

[Tony1244]

Just for the hell of it. Here's my Top 50 ever. I didn't put a lot of thought into it so things could be changed around, but I'm sure I put a lot more thought into than Jip. He'd apparently just name the first 50 boxers that come to mind.

Top 50 Boxers ever (with old...because if you're talking Best ever, you're talking old school fighters)

1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Sam Langford
3. Ezzard Charles
4. Harry Greb
5. Henry Armstrong
6. Willie Pep
7. Roberto Duran
8. Muhammad Ali
9. Archie Moore
10. Sugar Ray Leonard
11. Joe Louis
12. Benny Leonard
13. Gene Tunney
14. Mickey Walker
15. Barney Ross
16. Joe Gans
17. Floyd Mayweather Jr.
18. Charley Burley
19. Marvin Hagler
20. Sandy Saddler
21. Ike Williams
22. Thomas Hearns
23. Tony Canzoneri
24. Manny Pacquiao
25. Bob Fitzsimmons
26. Evander Holyfield
27. Pernell Whitaker
28. Bernard Hopkins
29. Larry Holmes
30. Michael Spinks
31. George Foreman
32. Bob Foster
33. Stanley Ketchel
34. Harold Johnson
35. Alexis Arguello
36. Roy Jones Jr.
37. Wilfredo "Bazooka" Gomez
38. Jimmy Wilde
39. Julio Cesar Chavez
40. Emile Griffith
41. Lennox Lewis
42. Erik Morales
43. Marco Antonio Barrera
44. Billy Conn
45. Eder Jofre
46. Mike McCallum
47. Aaron Pryor
48. Carlos Ortiz
49. Nicoline Locche
50. Jack Dempsey

Nice list. How did you go about doing it?

No Frazier, Tyson, or Klitschko?

I think I'd have Wilde, RJJ (when he was good), Holmes, and Hopkins a bit higher.

[thereverend]

Jip why are you calling me a retard? What brought that on?

What is retarded is saying a fighter who lost is first professional fight to a middling old slow fighter like Salido is better then Pep. Loma is 10-1. He's fought 10 fights in 5 years. for the first 5 years of Pep's career he was unbeaten, won a world championship, not an ABC championship. Fighting two fights a month. You have no understanding of boxing, your lists are idiotic, commenting on your dumbass thread is the stupidest thing I've done in a long time. Discussing boxing with little kids on the internet is a waste of my time.

[Enlightened-One]

Gilgy,

I beg to differ. for starters, Greb should be at the top of any list. Numbers don't ever lie. Great fighters, but having Sam Langford and Ezzard Charles ahead of greb and pep is a fallacy. Eder Jofre shouldn't even be in the top 100.

Don't act like a pretentious know-it-all, because you've never seen Harry Greb fight... EVER!

You probably haven't seen the other guys fight either!

If you know literally nothing about a subject matter, then don't pretend to be an "expert" and passionately attack a stance that you're uneducated about!

Why are people, who have never seen Harry Greb fight, basing their opinions solely on reading the thoughts of others, who likem themselves, have also never seen Harry Greb fight? How stupid is that?

Harry Greb participated in his very first professional bout almost 105 years ago. FFS!

[Jip]

Jip why are you calling me a retard? What brought that on?

What is retarded is saying a fighter who lost is first professional fight to a middling old slow fighter like Salido is better then Pep. Loma is 10-1. He's fought 10 fights in 5 years. for the first 5 years of Pep's career he was unbeaten, won a world championship, not an ABC championship. Fighting two fights a month. You have no understanding of boxing, your lists are idiotic, commenting on your dumbass thread is the stupidest thing I've done in a long time. Discussing boxing with little kids on the internet is a waste of my time.

Look, you simply dont get the point and i wont explain it to you anymore. I did enough explaining and you dont get it. So be it.

[gilgamesh]

Nice list. How did you go about doing it?

No Frazier, Tyson, or Klitschko?

I think I'd have Wilde, RJJ (when he was good), Holmes, and Hopkins a bit higher.

Just knowledge on the sport. It's not a perfect list, and I didn't really have a system in place. I'm sure some fighters could be put in, some could be taken out, and some could be moved around, but overall I think it's a good representation of some of the sports true Elites.

[Tony1244]

Nice list. How did you go about doing it?

No Frazier, Tyson, or Klitschko?

I think I'd have Wilde, RJJ (when he was good), Holmes, and Hopkins a bit higher.

Just knowledge on the sport. It's not a perfect list, and I didn't really have a system in place. I'm sure some fighters could be put in, some could be taken out, and some could be moved around, but overall I think it's a good representation of some of the sports true Elites.

[Freedom2013]

For the passionate about atg more focused on number of fights, than a top 5 atg like this would be realistic.

1. Wilie Pepp
2. Sugar Ray Robinson
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Harry Greb
5. Muhammad Ali

I mean even in a old school list i cant put langford in the top 5. He has so many losses and draws combined around 60. Its just bad.

You need to consider Langford fought men who were much bigger than himself, across several weight division.

The top three of all time were Armstrong, Greb and Langford. I can't rank them, but I think they are above the rest. They fought everybody, never avoided or cherry-picked.

Then there's about 10-12 who are close to the best: Louis, Pep, Ali, Leonard, Duran, Robinson, Charles, etc.

[Enlightened-One]

It makes me laugh to see people passionately asserting the “all-time-greatness” of certain fighters they’ve never seen compete, whilst being unfamiliar with the vast majority of their opposition, being considered somehow “better” than others that they actually possess knowledge of.

People are seriously claiming that fighters like Benny Leonard, Mickey Walker, Sam Langford, Joey Gans and Harry Greb, who all made their pro debut more than 80 years ago, are better than others, based solely on the opinions of others who (like themselves) have never seen these guys fight.

I’ll give you an example of the point I’m making…

Here are some questions that should be very easy to answer to anyone that believes that Harry Greb is an all-time-great:

• How many Harry Greb fights are freely available to watch online?
• When did you first watch Harry Greb?
• What are some of your favourite Harry Greb fights?
• What is Harry Greb’s fighting style?
• Which opponents did Harry Greb face that impressed you the most?

It’s not my place to criticise how other people formulate their opinions, but in the same way I would personally refrain from criticising any modern day fighter if I’d never seen them fight (or watched very little of them in action), the same rule applies if I'm asked to endorse boxers that competed 70+ years or so ago.

[Jip]

It makes me laugh to see people passionately asserting the “all-time-greatness” of certain fighters they’ve never seen compete, whilst being unfamiliar with the vast majority of their opposition, being considered somehow “better” than others that they actually possess knowledge of.

People are seriously claiming that fighters like Benny Leonard, Mickey Walker, Sam Langford, Joey Gans and Harry Greb, who all made their pro debut more than 80 years ago, are better than others, based solely on the opinions of others who (like themselves) have never seen these guys fight.

I’ll give you an example of the point I’m making…

Here are some questions that should be very easy to answer to anyone that believes that Harry Greb is an all-time-great:

• How many Harry Greb fights are freely available to watch online?
• When did you first watch Harry Greb?
• What are some of your favourite Harry Greb fights?
• What is Harry Greb’s fighting style?
• Which opponents did Harry Greb face that impressed you the most?

It’s not my place to criticise how other people formulate their opinions, but in the same way I would personally refrain from criticising any modern day fighter if I’d never seen them fight (or watched very little of them in action), the same rule applies if I'm asked to endorse boxers that competed 70+ years or so ago.

This is nostalgia. Nostalgia of the old the past.

Greb 0 footage, langford close to 70 losses + draws. Makes no sense having these boxer in the top atg. When pacquiao has some losses and draws while fighting the best and climbing divisions than pac is a overrated boxer, not atg top 10 caliber cause he lost some fights and had some draws. Langford had around 35 losses and 29 draws and people are alright with that, some even say "best boxer ever". Makes 0 sense. But thats nostalgia.

[Jip]

Everybody ready, in 7 hrs witness history

[IKSRTFO]

Rigo top 10 with more skills than Pep.

This proves my point that there's more to being the best than having reflexes and having skills.

[Jip]

Rigo top 10 with more skills than Pep.

This proves my point that there's more to being the best than having reflexes and having skills.

Not only would pepp lose to loma, but far worse than rigo did. Rigo and loma both outclass pepp.

[punchoutsb]

Rigo top 10 with more skills than Pep.

This proves my point that there's more to being the best than having reflexes and having skills.

Not only would pepp lose to loma, but far worse than rigo did. Rigo and loma both outclass pepp.

Based on what?