Bodyshot3 wrote: ↑08 Dec 2017, 15:43
I'd suggest that Lennox pretty much retired on his own terms and always had a clear-cut personal plan.
For my money, he was never entirely in love with the fight game but understood that he had the talent to make a great deal of money and be successful. Boxing was simply his best option and I am not sure he craved the gym/training camp like other fighters did.
Lennox effectively made the commitment to maximise what he had got and appreciated that as a relatively late-starter there was a 'window' to do this in and then it would be time to move on.
When he ended-up in a nasty war with Vitali I think Lennox realised that it was time to clock-off and close down his project. He'd got as much out of the sport as he could and the risk-reward odds were no longer that good.
You could almost hear him saying.....I've signed-off with a win of some note against a dangerous guy who is on the rise, I've made the money I want and I am not going to get back into the ring just for the pure sake of entertaining folk or for my own ego
I can almost hear him saying... "Klitschko beat my can in. He was winning on all scorecards and I was lucky to get the win. I had a corrupt referee in my pocket who wouldn't call the fouls I used to inflict those cuts on Klitschko's eyelid.. Then the referee warned me for palming Klitschko's face---and I know he knew he had to do it because it was so flagrant---but he didn't even stop the action or call time, but simply used a hand gesture, which was inappropriate given the deliberate nature of the foul. I was afraid he would say fouls contributed to the cuts. But I got the stoppage on cuts instead of losing a unanimous technical decision.
In any rematch Klitschko would come with a vengeance and smash my ass into the canvas.. It would be the biggest money I ever made and probably break all PPV records -- but I'll frustrate everyone and go back on my promise to give Klitschko a rematch by retiring. Because that's my style.. When you peel back the layers I'm one nasty reneging SOB."
Has Lewis ever made a statement regarding what he felt his chances would be in a rematch? If he was humble or contrite, maybe Kalan can calm down and have a coke on this subject.
Yes... Lewis was interviewed SEVERAL TIMES about the rematch which he promised to go through with... He said "I'll fukk up the other side of his face. Did you see the state of his face???" When was Lewis ever humble or contrite??? He was a shitt.
But he feared a vengeful Klitschko.. Vitali would be coming for annihilation.. He knew he was the better boxer and he would come in to blow Lewis's head off.. I don't see it going past 2 or 3 rounds and there would be a referee who would call fouls.
Kalan wrote: ↑09 Dec 2017, 04:20
Yes... Lewis was interviewed SEVERAL TIMES about the rematch which he promised to go through with... When was Lewis ever humble or contrite??? He was a shitt.
But he feared a vengeful Klitschko.. Vitali would be coming for annihilation.. (...)
Lewis was out of shape for the 1st fight - you can bet he would be better prepared for rematch. And it took him some time to discover Vitali has virtually no inside game (for a top fighter) - in rematch he knows it from the very beginning. Still risky fight at this stage of career, but I would definitely favour him over Vitaly in rematch.
I guess he just preferred to retire because despite all those arrogant interviews (this is true), deep down he knew that getting in shape when you are ~40 and you already achieved everything ($$$, belts, fame) can turn out to be more difficult than it was earlier.
I thought Marvin Hagler showed what he was made of when he walked away after losing to Ray Leonard. He thought he got screwed and probably knew his best days were behind him after 67 fights. I admired him for staying away even though he could have made big money in rematches with Leonard and Hearns.
Kalan wrote: ↑09 Dec 2017, 04:20
Yes... Lewis was interviewed SEVERAL TIMES about the rematch which he promised to go through with... When was Lewis ever humble or contrite??? He was a shitt.
But he feared a vengeful Klitschko.. Vitali would be coming for annihilation.. (...)
Lewis was out of shape for the 1st fight - you can bet he would be better prepared for rematch. And it took him some time to discover Vitali has virtually no inside game (for a top fighter) - in rematch he knows it from the very beginning. Still risky fight at this stage of career, but I would definitely favour him over Vitaly in rematch.
I guess he just preferred to retire because despite all those arrogant interviews (this is true), deep down he knew that getting in shape when you are ~40 and you already achieved everything ($$$, belts, fame) can turn out to be more difficult than it was earlier
Vitali had a good inside game but he couldn't see well with his left eye so he caught a few freebies that did nothing.
And VK would be in much better condition for the rematch -- because Lewis was training for a Heavyweight Championship Fight for 3 months and Klitschko was training for a Heavyweight Title Fight for less than 2 weeks.
Gatti slipped a punch now and then, didn't make him a great defensive fighter any more than one example makes Vitali an inside fighter. Dreadful from you, as ever. Supposedly a great inside fighter, sure, he just (almost) never threw hooks or uppercuts, or any punches from short range, and spent almost his entire effort regarding footwork on maintaining a nice gap of distrance from his opponent.
Counter-puncher wrote: ↑15 Dec 2017, 16:53
Gatti slipped a punch now and then, didn't make him a great defensive fighter any more than one example makes Vitali an inside fighter. Dreadful from you, as ever. Supposedly a great inside fighter, sure, he just (almost) never threw hooks or uppercuts, or any punches from short range, and spent almost his entire effort regarding footwork on maintaining a nice gap of distrance from his opponent
That’s not true at all... He did throw power punches from short range including hooks and uppercuts.
If you have the height and range over 96% of your opponents the smart thing to do is execue your outside game most of the time.. But versus shorter Heavyweights Vitali used short hooks and uppercuts when they closed the distance on him.
And I never said Vitali was a "great" infighter.. There's a big difference between good and great.. He was great at long range because a man his height tries to stay at long range so that’s where he gets all his practice -- but little short guys like 6'2" Sam Peter would get nailed with his right uppercut on the inside as they closed the distance... Which is exactly what Marv Alpert described... Go to 7:00 of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7kIbXRhTMg at 7:07 he lands an inside right uppercut followed by Alpert's description “an uppercut on the inside” in case you see something different. Vitali landed at least a dozen uppercuts in that fight and in many other fights...
At 2:44 of this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7wC6hGRBa0he floors Danny Williams with a couple of short left hooks.. This was Danny Willams next fight after he knocked out Mike Tyson.
Joe Calzaghe - Finally found his passport & the directions to his nearest international airport; came over to the States to get a couple of wins & paydays against some ageing legends, then bowed out leaving the likes of Carl Froch frustrated.
Bodyshot3 wrote: ↑08 Dec 2017, 15:43
I'd suggest that Lennox pretty much retired on his own terms and always had a clear-cut personal plan.
For my money, he was never entirely in love with the fight game but understood that he had the talent to make a great deal of money and be successful. Boxing was simply his best option and I am not sure he craved the gym/training camp like other fighters did.
Lennox effectively made the commitment to maximise what he had got and appreciated that as a relatively late-starter there was a 'window' to do this in and then it would be time to move on.
When he ended-up in a nasty war with Vitali I think Lennox realised that it was time to clock-off and close down his project. He'd got as much out of the sport as he could and the risk-reward odds were no longer that good.
You could almost hear him saying.....I've signed-off with a win of some note against a dangerous guy who is on the rise, I've made the money I want and I am not going to get back into the ring just for the pure sake of entertaining folk or for my own ego
I can almost hear him saying... "Klitschko beat my can in. He was winning on all scorecards and I was lucky to get the win. I had a corrupt referee in my pocket who wouldn't call the fouls I used to inflict those cuts on Klitschko's eyelid.. Then the referee warned me for palming Klitschko's face---and I know he knew he had to do it because it was so flagrant---but he didn't even stop the action or call time, but simply used a hand gesture, which was inappropriate given the deliberate nature of the foul. I was afraid he would say fouls contributed to the cuts. But I got the stoppage on cuts instead of losing a unanimous technical decision.
In any rematch Klitschko would come with a vengeance and smash my ass into the canvas.. It would be the biggest money I ever made and probably break all PPV records -- but I'll frustrate everyone and go back on my promise to give Klitschko a rematch by retiring. Because that's my style.. When you peel back the layers I'm one nasty reneging SOB."
Kalan, you appear to have a real bee in your bonnet about Lewis not returning after getting his win over Vitali.
Do you have a personal interest in the matter?
Why do you begrudge an ageing great who was clearly not at his best that night & was probably declining physically, the honour of bowing out & walking away?
Even if you're right about Vitali winning any potential rematch handily (something I myself doubt), why would you want to see someone like Lewis getting pasted when he clearly would have been a long way from his best?
Last edited by Syntax Error on 17 Dec 2017, 02:14, edited 1 time in total.
Johnny Nelson was forced to retire due to injury & is still cut up about it to this day.
He would definitely have fought on longer had he been able to.
The impression I had was that while he had a back injury, he could've continued his career. However, he wouldn't have been able to live up to his personal standards. I believe he was quoted as saying, "My 50 percent would be 100 percent of somebody else but that's not good enough." I consider that as both retiring on his own terms and the mark of a true professional.
Last edited by bwu on 16 Dec 2017, 21:50, edited 1 time in total.
Kalan, you appear to have a real bee in your bonnet about Lewis not returning after getting his win over Vitali.
Do you have a personal interest in the matter?
Why do you begrudge an ageing great who was clearly not at his best that night & was probably declining physically, the honour of bowing out & walking away?
Even if you're right about Vitali winning any potential rematch handily (something I myself doubt), why would you want to see someone like Lewis getting pasted when he clearly would have been a long way from his best?
And remaining On Topic....this thread was always about fighter's retiring on their own terms.
A simple premise; who bowed out at the right time for them and because it suited their agenda rather than ours.
Don't get me wrong, I would have loved Lennox and Vitali to have had a return (even a triology) and smashed the hell out of each other, but the point I was making was that Lewis made his choice and it was on-balance a wise one and his alone.
I don't care about the 91 seconds. Butch Lewis held out for years to get Spinks his $13 million Tyson payday.
I'm sure he wishes his last fight went differently but I think he saw he was at the end of his career and successfully walked away with "never work again" money.
I don't care about the 91 seconds. Butch Lewis held out for years to get Spinks his $13 million Tyson payday.
I'm sure he wishes his last fight went differently but I think he saw he was at the end of his career and successfully walked away with "never work again" money.
I completely agree. Spinks campaign at heavyweight was supposed to be in and out. I do not believe they ever really believed he'd win. The 1.1 million purse was eleven times what he'd made in his most recent light heavyweight title defense. It was about business and "get out". Winning the prize meant far more money in a rematch they felt they may be able to win. From there it was all about gravy until the inevitable defeat. Spinks was never in love with his trade.
Tinnie wrote: ↑04 Dec 2017, 20:49
Johnny Famechon. Promptly called it a day after losing his title to Saldivar. Still relatively in his prime, there were probably a few good match ups available but chose to get out of the game with his health intact.
At age 25
In the late 80' Fammo could be found in the front bar of a local pub here in Melbourne having a quiet beer and reading the newspaper, usually on his own. People would come up to chat and he always obliged. A top fella by all accounts
On top of my memory I remember the Lennox retirement bit differently then some...
Was it so that Lennox was trying to get one last fight against easier opponent than Vitali but Vitali got himself to mandatory position so Lennox was forced to either retire or face him? Does anyone have any info about this? Or have I been just dreaming? Again?
