Lomachenko-Rigondeaux Rant!!!

[punchoutsb]

So he picked Rigo to win, and now is downplaying Loma's entire career.

Sounds like a great pundit!

[BAD INTENTIONS]

I saw a fight between a Ukranian and a Cuban.

Are you telling me that some "white" dude from Montana is somehow in the same group as Lomachenko?
Rarely true historically.
Not true genetically.

Funny how when I'm rooting for Wlad over any fighter from anywhere, or leading the critique against Terrence Crawford, or promoting Kovalev as P4P #1 before anyone else here, or claiming Mikey Garcia is the best fighter in boxing, there is no mention of racial bias. Why not Saad?

Just amazing how a bunch of AMERICAN and BRITISH IDIOTS could look on at a Ukranian, Russian or Kazakhstani, and feel some connection because of skin color. IDIOT. It's almost a 99.9% certainty that you as an AMERICAN or BRITISH are genetically closer to most "black" people in your country, than you are to any of the "white" fighters". It's very likely that your ancestors had ZERO contact with Eastern Europeans, but had much more peaceful contact with "blacks" and "Arabs".

When did you guys become white really?
When you were killing a stadium worth of "your people" a day during WWII?

You idiots who believe in race ...

[BAD INTENTIONS]

Adrien Broner didn't "dare himself to be great". He was practically handed his titles on a silver plate as he was always matched against the weakest titleholder available when moving up. So he's already moved up once.

Not fair.
Broner fought Maidana (2013 version), Porter (2015 version), and Granados (2017 version).
Most welterweights wouldn't fight those guys at the time.
Only Paulie could be considered a cherry-pick, but a 135 pounder isn't bothering Malinaggi much.

[Kalan]

A-Hole Vivek says.., "MAJOR PROPS to Lomachenko. We knew he was a stud, he performed like one. I had Rigo winning the fight coming in" .... No SHITT!!! Who'd you expect Vivek to pick between an American and Eastern European???

"1. Lomachenko won his 2012 Olympic Gold Medal as a 132lber, and has walked around in the 145 range since before that time." ... That is total Bullcrap Vivek pulled out of his ass.

"We are celebrating what we viewed as his "greatest pro accomplishment". That "accomplishment" was a victory over a fighter who has never fought above 122lbs, and never walked around above 130lbs (approx)." MORE Bullcrap Vivek pulled out of his ass

"I personally think skills CAN (not always but CAN) overcome size, but what bothers me here is that many of you who are relishing in his victory are downplaying a greater size difference than the one you said was at fault when Lomachenko was defeated by Orlando Salido" .... Vivek has GOT to mention the Orlando Salido robbery doesn't he??? That's mandaory... Every fair minded person knows Lomachenko won that fight.

"Ward couldn't get Golovkin to make the same 8 pound jump that Rigondeaux did in an effort to dare himself to be great" .... Golovkin tried 4 times to get fights at 168 so he could acclimate to the weight and build up the Ward fight.. Which his trainer Abel Sanchez advised him to do.. Each time he had an opponent set up the Boxing Establishment squashed the fight... Ward effectively had three (3) warm up fights at Light Heavyweight to get ready for Kovalev.

"To this day, both Golovkin and Lomachenko have found success defeating men whom they are clearly bigger than. That's pure garbage" .... it's pure garbage whenever an Easter European wins.. That's his whole deal, HATE!!! ....

" I commend Rigo for taking the fight." .... Right, commend him for taking the fight and predict he'll win easily... but then call the fight pure garbage after his loses very badly.

"Adrien Broner isn't HALF the talent of these two men" .... Right. A great talent when Vivek predicted he would beat Maidana, Porter, and Mikey.. But now he's a no talent ....

"If you can't post an example of these two men going up to test themselves, stop talking....because you aren't saying a damn thing! Period...

You're not saying anything Vivek... Just excuses, lies, and bullcrap whenever the Americans you pick lose badly.

Kalan, instead of boldly proclaiming "bullcráp", cite some facts.

If you can't, then please remain silent [/quote]

Why don't you just shut up if you can't read... Lomachenko is a 2-Division World Champion... To do that he had to move up in weight... He's willing to move up again to fight Mikey to go for 3 divisions...

Golovkin was perfectly willing to move up in weight to fight Oosthuizen, Edwin Rodriguez, Julio Cesar Chavez, and Carl Froch... After an acclimation fight to help build up the Ward fight he wanted Ward.... He had zero cooperation from the American Boxing Establishment to get anything going.

Vivek doesn't deal in fact... He deals in lies, propaganda, and bullcrap!!! ... He picked Rigondeaux to score a 9th round KO and things didn't go his way again as usual... He's one of the most biased individuals in the world.

[Kalan]

I saw a fight between a Ukranian and a Cuban.

Are you telling me that some "white" dude from Montana is somehow in the same group as Lomachenko?
Rarely true historically.
Not true genetically.

Funny how when I'm rooting for Wlad over any fighter from anywhere, or leading the critique against Terrence Crawford, or promoting Kovalev as P4P #1 before anyone else here, or claiming Mikey Garcia is the best fighter in boxing, there is no mention of racial bias. Why not Saad?

Just amazing how a bunch of AMERICAN and BRITISH IDIOTS could look on at a Ukranian, Russian or Kazakhstani, and feel some connection because of skin color. IDIOT. It's almost a 99.9% certainty that you as an AMERICAN or BRITISH are genetically closer to most "black" people in your country, than you are to any of the "white" fighters". It's very likely that your ancestors had ZERO contact with Eastern Europeans, but had much more peaceful contact with "blacks" and "Arabs".

When did you guys become white really?
When you were killing a stadium worth of "your people" a day during WWII?

You idiots who believe in race ...

You don't think any Americans of German decent dropped bombs on Germany??? It was about winning the war, not what race Germans are... What was General Dwight Eisenhower's nationality.??? You don't think Vasyl Lomacheno is white??? ..., He's as white as any Anglo Saxon... He's racially in the same group as Anglo Saxons and NOT in the same racial grouping as African Americans.... It doesn't make any difference to me what race somebody is or isn't... It's all about how good a boxer he is... But a white dude from Montana is the same race as Lomachenko unless you're the dumbest guy on the planet.

[Enlightened-One]

Why don't you just shut up if you can't read... Vivek doesn't deal in fact... He deals in lies, propaganda, and bullcrap!!! He's one of the most biased individuals in the world.

The context of my remarks that you aggressively criticised was related to the following post you submitted, not anything else you subsequently wrote:

You're not saying anything Vivek... Just excuses, lies, and bullcrap whenever the Americans you pick lose badly.

Whilst I appreciate that Vivek’s commentary about the Lomachenko-Rigondeaux bout is likely to be considered highly provocative in nature to anyone that is a devout fan of the Ukraine, an awful lot of the points he articulated were factually-correct.

To be honest, I’m a little disappointed that you chose to debate dishonestly, by employing ad hominem tactics using purely emotional language, which basically means that you’re unable to undermine Vivek’s claims, so instead you attack his character by making unsubstantiated fictional accusations about the man himself.

I was expecting more from you, since I hoped you would have quoted every sentence he wrote that you disagreed with and cited irrefutable evidence to contradict his claims, but you can’t do that can you?

As I’ve already clearly stated, I don't necessarily co-sign everything he's written, but I do agree with several aspects of his claims and I also feel that he mentioned several important issues that many forum members hadn’t previously considered, hence the reason for this thread.

[gilgamesh]

Adrien Broner didn't "dare himself to be great". He was practically handed his titles on a silver plate as he was always matched against the weakest titleholder available when moving up. So he's already moved up once.

Not fair.
Broner fought Maidana (2013 version), Porter (2015 version), and Granados (2017 version).
Most welterweights wouldn't fight those guys at the time.
Only Paulie could be considered a cherry-pick, but a 135 pounder isn't bothering Malinaggi much.

He lost to Maidana. He lost to Porter, and Granados beat him too in my opinion.

I didn't think he beat Paulie either personally. I had that fight a draw.

Maidana, Porter and Granados as much as I like all those guys are always around the 5th or 6th best fighter in their division at any given time at best. So that shows where Broner's at when it comes to this level.

[Enlightened-One]

Also...in case the person who wrote that rant isn't already aware. Lomachenko is a 2 weight World Champion already. So he's already moved up once.

As the old adage goes… the devil is in the detail…

Vivek Wallace didn’t claim that Lomachenko hadn’t moved up a weight class, instead he was suggesting that Vasyl usually fought smaller opponents, which is technically true in most cases (in the context of the weight he competed at as an amateur).

I believe the only time he fought someone notably physically “bigger” than himself, was against Orlando Salido, which compelled the Ukraine’s devout fans to harshly undermine the Mexican’s achievement when he emerged victorious (in part) due to his unfair “size” advantage.

However, the very same people now appear to flamboyantly celebrate Lomachenko’s victory over Rigondeaux, despite Ukraine holding an obviously similar unfair “size” advantage over the Cuban. Double standards perhaps?

I think that people haven’t either scrutinised Vivek’s words with enough detail, therefore misinterpreting them, or perhaps they’re employing straw man debating tactics to severely and dishonestly criticise the boxing scribe for somehow “suggesting something” he clearly did not explicitly state nor imply.

[greg]

..I didn't even know Salido is/was bigger than Lomachenko..and I don't think that was the reason WHY the result was criticised by "devout" fans...according to boxrec some of Loma's opponents were 2-3 cm bigger, some 2-3 cm smaller, the smaller ones usually having a longer reach...anyway, I might relate as to why some of Loma's fans are being criticised, not sure though regarding an attempt to discredit his win over Rigo..37-year old 2 time Olympic champ and unbeaten veteran has made this last-ditch attempt to cement his legacy and guess what, he was outclassed, outhustled and out- everything else quitting on his stool..no pun intended..

[Enlightened-One]

..I didn't even know Salido is/was bigger than Lomachenko..and I don't think that was the reason WHY the result was criticised by "devout" fans...according to boxrec some of Loma's opponents were 2-3 cm bigger, some 2-3 cm smaller, the smaller ones usually having a longer reach...

Since the end of 2010, Vasyl Lomachenko competed at 132lbs as an amateur, until he turned professional on the 13th October, 2013, campaigning at 126lbs.

Salido’s unfair weight advantage was one of the main reasons why his victory over Lomachenko was aggressively criticised by the Ukraine’s fans. His official weight was 3lbs over the championship limit and he entered the ring weighing 147lbs, which was allegedly 11lbs heavier than Vasyl’s 136lbs ring weight.

Lomachenko's ring weight for the Russell bout was 138lbs, where the fight was competed at the 126lbs featherweight limit. I know that Rigondeaux's ring weight for the Roberto Marroquin fight was only 128lbs, when competing in his natural 122lbs super bantamweight habitat.

The rehydration limit that was stipulated in the Lomachenko-Rigondeaux fight contract was 138lbs, which was requested by the Cuban, because Guillermo was obviously worried about the size discrepancy between himself and his opponent.

The Ukraine has been competing at 130lbs (as a professional) since the start of 2016, which is pretty much the same weight he competed at as an amateur (132lbs from 2010).... for the last seven years, hence the nature of Vivek Wallace's comments.

[Tony1244]

I saw a fight between a Ukranian and a Cuban.

Are you telling me that some "white" dude from Montana is somehow in the same group as Lomachenko?
Rarely true historically.
Not true genetically.

Funny how when I'm rooting for Wlad over any fighter from anywhere, or leading the critique against Terrence Crawford, or promoting Kovalev as P4P #1 before anyone else here, or claiming Mikey Garcia is the best fighter in boxing, there is no mention of racial bias. Why not Saad?

Just amazing how a bunch of AMERICAN and BRITISH IDIOTS could look on at a Ukranian, Russian or Kazakhstani, and feel some connection because of skin color. IDIOT. It's almost a 99.9% certainty that you as an AMERICAN or BRITISH are genetically closer to most "black" people in your country, than you are to any of the "white" fighters". It's very likely that your ancestors had ZERO contact with Eastern Europeans, but had much more peaceful contact with "blacks" and "Arabs".

When did you guys become white really?
When you were killing a stadium worth of "your people" a day during WWII?

You idiots who believe in race ...

Very interesting topic. People have been rooting for their country or perceived color for a long long time. As I've said here even many liberal whites were "white hoping" on the G(J)errys in the 1970s and 80s because there had not been a white HW American champion for a generation.

People are going to root for whomever they want to root for. I only ask that people ask themselves does the white guy, or black guy, or Mexican or whomever necessarily reflect your values?

I'm a white American, but I'm probably culturally closer to Lennox Lewis than I am to the Klitschkos even though my blood lineage is likely not too different from the Klitschkos.

I don't necessarily have more in common with the white guy.

[greg]

..I didn't even know Salido is/was bigger than Lomachenko..and I don't think that was the reason WHY the result was criticised by "devout" fans...according to boxrec some of Loma's opponents were 2-3 cm bigger, some 2-3 cm smaller, the smaller ones usually having a longer reach...

Since the end of 2010, Vasyl Lomachenko competed at 132lbs as an amateur, until he turned professional on the 13th October, 2013, campaigning at 126lbs.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that, unless he used PEDs, etc.. to keep his weight down..

Salido’s unfair weight advantage was one of the main reasons why his victory over Lomachenko was aggressively criticised by the Ukraine’s fans. His official weight was 3lbs over the championship limit and he entered the ring weighing 147lbs, which was allegedly 11lbs heavier than Vasyl’s 136lbs ring weight.

..you're right, I forgot it. Now that you mention it, I believe it was one of those "tricks-of-the trade" that shouldn't have been allowed in the first place...that and the poor quality of refereeing, of course..

The rehydration limit that was stipulated in the Lomachenko-Rigondeaux fight contract was 138lbs, which was requested by the Cuban, because Guillermo was obvious worried about the size discrepancy between himself and his opponent.

my understanding was that Loma/his teams agreed to that

The Ukraine has been competing at 130lbs (as a professional) since the start of 2016, which is pretty much the same weight he competed at as an amateur (132lbs).... for the last seven years, hence the nature of Vivek Wallace's comments.

I believe I understand the nature of Vivek Wallace's comments..I just don't see it as an ethical/moral problem or as any other kind of transgression on Loma's part..

[Enlightened-One]

..I didn't even know Salido is/was bigger than Lomachenko..and I don't think that was the reason WHY the result was criticised by "devout" fans...according to boxrec some of Loma's opponents were 2-3 cm bigger, some 2-3 cm smaller, the smaller ones usually having a longer reach...

Since the end of 2010, Vasyl Lomachenko competed at 132lbs as an amateur, until he turned professional on the 13th October, 2013, campaigning at 126lbs.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that, unless he used PEDs, etc.. to keep his weight down..

Salido’s unfair weight advantage was one of the main reasons why his victory over Lomachenko was aggressively criticised by the Ukraine’s fans. His official weight was 3lbs over the championship limit and he entered the ring weighing 147lbs, which was allegedly 11lbs heavier than Vasyl’s 136lbs ring weight.

..you're right, I forgot it. Now that you mention it, I believe it was one of those "tricks-of-the trade" that shouldn't have been allowed in the first place...that and the poor quality of refereeing, of course..

The rehydration limit that was stipulated in the Lomachenko-Rigondeaux fight contract was 138lbs, which was requested by the Cuban, because Guillermo was obvious worried about the size discrepancy between himself and his opponent.

my understanding was that Loma/his teams agreed to that

The Ukraine has been competing at 130lbs (as a professional) since the start of 2016, which is pretty much the same weight he competed at as an amateur (132lbs).... for the last seven years, hence the nature of Vivek Wallace's comments.

I believe I understand the nature of Vivek Wallace's comments..I just don't see it as an ethical/moral problem or as any other kind of transgression on Loma's part..

I just think that people got offended about Vivek Wallace’s assertion that Lomachenko has mostly competed against smaller opponents, despite them not having fact-checked his boxing career, because the boxing scribe is technically "right"... even if the margins for most of his bouts haven't been that significant.

For sure, Vasyl is a fantastic boxer and he almost certainly would have beaten all of his opponents regardless of any size advantage he may have held.

That being said, I just think that Vivek was merely pointing out the double-standards employed by Lomachenko’s fans, whereby Salido’s “size” advantage was deemed “unfair” and “outrageous”, but the one the Ukraine held over Rigondeaux was perfectly “fair” and that his victory was deemed to be a “fantastic” achievement.

[Ricky_]

Since the end of 2010, Vasyl Lomachenko competed at 132lbs as an amateur, until he turned professional on the 13th October, 2013, campaigning at 126lbs.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that, unless he used PEDs, etc.. to keep his weight down..

Salido’s unfair weight advantage was one of the main reasons why his victory over Lomachenko was aggressively criticised by the Ukraine’s fans. His official weight was 3lbs over the championship limit and he entered the ring weighing 147lbs, which was allegedly 11lbs heavier than Vasyl’s 136lbs ring weight.

..you're right, I forgot it. Now that you mention it, I believe it was one of those "tricks-of-the trade" that shouldn't have been allowed in the first place...that and the poor quality of refereeing, of course..

The rehydration limit that was stipulated in the Lomachenko-Rigondeaux fight contract was 138lbs, which was requested by the Cuban, because Guillermo was obvious worried about the size discrepancy between himself and his opponent.

my understanding was that Loma/his teams agreed to that

The Ukraine has been competing at 130lbs (as a professional) since the start of 2016, which is pretty much the same weight he competed at as an amateur (132lbs).... for the last seven years, hence the nature of Vivek Wallace's comments.

I believe I understand the nature of Vivek Wallace's comments..I just don't see it as an ethical/moral problem or as any other kind of transgression on Loma's part..

I just think that people got offended about Vivek Wallace’s assertion that Lomachenko has mostly competed against smaller opponents, despite them not having fact-checked his boxing career, because the boxing scribe is technically "right"... even if the margins for most of his bouts haven't been that significant.

For sure, Vasyl is a fantastic boxer and he almost certainly would have beaten all of his opponents regardless of any size advantage he may have held.

That being said, I just think that Vivek was merely pointing out the double-standards employed by Lomachenko’s fans, whereby Salido’s “size” advantage was deemed “unfair” and “outrageous”, but the one the Ukraine held over Rigondeaux was perfectly “fair” and that his victory was deemed to be a “fantastic” achievement.

Maybe because Lomachenko made weight vs Rigo & Salido didn't, dumbass.

[Enlightened-One]

I don't think there's anything wrong with that, unless he used PEDs, etc.. to keep his weight down..


..you're right, I forgot it. Now that you mention it, I believe it was one of those "tricks-of-the trade" that shouldn't have been allowed in the first place...that and the poor quality of refereeing, of course..


my understanding was that Loma/his teams agreed to that


I believe I understand the nature of Vivek Wallace's comments..I just don't see it as an ethical/moral problem or as any other kind of transgression on Loma's part..

I just think that people got offended about Vivek Wallace’s assertion that Lomachenko has mostly competed against smaller opponents, despite them not having fact-checked his boxing career, because the boxing scribe is technically "right"... even if the margins for most of his bouts haven't been that significant.

For sure, Vasyl is a fantastic boxer and he almost certainly would have beaten all of his opponents regardless of any size advantage he may have held.

That being said, I just think that Vivek was merely pointing out the double-standards employed by Lomachenko’s fans, whereby Salido’s “size” advantage was deemed “unfair” and “outrageous”, but the one the Ukraine held over Rigondeaux was perfectly “fair” and that his victory was deemed to be a “fantastic” achievement.

Maybe because Lomachenko made weight vs Rigo & Salido didn't, dumbass.

Your comment is out of context, but your insult was very welcome.

[jas80s]

I think the notion that this victory is being "flamboyantly celebrated" is an overstatement. This fight hardly gets mentioned without some form of "spent his career at 122" being mentioned as well.

There was a lot, and I mean A LOT, of P4P number one and ATG status talk about Loma before this fight happened. Once again, to talk as if there has been a spike in how fans appreciate Loma's abilities off of this fight again seems misplaced to me. Most of what I have read is people echoing Loma's own words that this wasn't his greatest victory.

As for fans having double standards about fighters they favor? What is he some kind of genius for figuring that out? If you want people who are balanced in how they view boxing, they are out there, just ignore the rest. Or read them purely for entertainment value as I do.

[Kalan]

Whilst I appreciate that Vivek’s commentary about the Lomachenko-Rigondeaux bout is likely to be considered highly provocative in nature .... an awful lot of the points he articulated were factually-correct

It's NOT correct... Salido never beat Lomachenko... That was a flat out robbery by a corrupt referee and 3 planted judges... Look at the punch stats for that fight if you're so damned blind... Lomachenko landed more punches... cleaner punches... and more effective punches... The only effective punches Salido landed were low blows - more than 50 of them.

NOTHING that jackass Vivek says is correct... Lomachenko ALREADY moved up in weight to 130 and knocked Rocky Martinez out with one cool shot to the chin... Martinez beat the crap out of Salido and the North American Boxing Establishment has been keeping Salido from rematching Lomachenko ever since.... Loma can't get the most appropriate fights at his weight and Rigondeaux said he felt a lot stronger at 130 and came within a pound of Lomachenko's weight... He gave up a fraction of a pound and that's a big deal to Vivek.

Did you ever think 130 might be a better weight for Rigondeaux than Lomachenko??? And 126 might be a better weight for Lomachenko??? Did Billy Conn cry about giving up 25 pounds to Joe Louis??? Did Roy Jones cry about giving up 40 pounds to John Ruiz??? .... When you move up in weight you take your chances...

Hagler and Monzon DIDN'T move up in weight because they didn't LIKE their chances... Vivek picked Rignodeaux to win by KO (which was super predictable) and he picked Hatton, Cotto, Margarito, and Mosley to beat Pacquiao and cried after each of those fights... He also insisted that Bernard Hopkins would beat Joe Calzaghe and insisted that he did after the fight... so the man is consistent in his bias... He also does many stories where he knocks Triple-G.

[Kalan]

..I didn't even know Salido is/was bigger than Lomachenko..and I don't think that was the reason WHY the result was criticised by "devout" fans...according to boxrec some of Loma's opponents were 2-3 cm bigger, some 2-3 cm smaller, the smaller ones usually having a longer reach...

Since the end of 2010, Vasyl Lomachenko competed at 132lbs as an amateur, until he turned professional on the 13th October, 2013, campaigning at 126lbs.

Salido’s unfair weight advantage was one of the main reasons why his victory over Lomachenko was aggressively criticised by the Ukraine’s fans. His official weight was 3lbs over the championship limit and he entered the ring weighing 147lbs, which was allegedly 11lbs heavier than Vasyl’s 136lbs ring weight.

Lomachenko's ring weight for the Russell bout was 138lbs, where the fight was competed at the 126lbs featherweight limit. I know that Rigondeaux's ring weight for the Roberto Marroquin fight was only 128lbs, when competing in his natural 122lbs super bantamweight habitat.

The rehydration limit that was stipulated in the Lomachenko-Rigondeaux fight contract was 138lbs, which was requested by the Cuban, because Guillermo was obviously worried about the size discrepancy between himself and his opponent.

The Ukraine has been competing at 130lbs (as a professional) since the start of 2016, which is pretty much the same weight he competed at as an amateur (132lbs from 2010).... for the last seven years, hence the nature of Vivek Wallace's comments.

Most guys compete at close to their natural weight as amateurs... In tournaments you fight every day and weigh-in every day and might fight 5 times in a week... You fight all the time and 100's of fights, so you can't go drying out and making weight all the time... Andre Ward competed at 178 as an amateur.... Shawn Porter competed at Middleweight... Golovkin competed at 165... In the pro ranks you might fight 4 or 5 times a year instead of 40 or 50 times in a year... You fight at a lower weight because there's more opportunity for you to make weight... Vivek and you guys just don't understand Boxing.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Was size the major fact in the fight? No. Did it impact on Rico's psychology going in there? More than likely. Should there be a caveat over Loma' s win? Certainly. Is lomachenko a very special fighter? Without doubt.

There are nuances. Lomachenko like all great fighters needs a dance partner. It may be he needs to go to 135 before we find one. He has incredible skills, absolutely without question, but fights are about styles, and sometimes a fighter with great skills is overcome by someone who seems crude. French v Nelson springs to mind, even though the result didnt go the right way.

I suspect lomachenko will be retired before he hits 20 fights. He will do great things In that time, but for me longevity is one of they keys to greatness. Not the only one, but one of the pillars along with historical impact, great wins, skill set and other attributes.

[jamamb]

Was size the major fact in the fight? No. Did it impact on Rico's psychology going in there? More than likely. Should there be a caveat over Loma' s win? Certainly. Is lomachenko a very special fighter? Without doubt.

There are nuances. Lomachenko like all great fighters needs a dance partner. It may be he needs to go to 135 before we find one. He has incredible skills, absolutely without question, but fights are about styles, and sometimes a fighter with great skills is overcome by someone who seems crude. French v Nelson springs to mind, even though the result didnt go the right way.

I suspect lomachenko will be retired before he hits 20 fights. He will do great things In that time, but for me longevity is one of they keys to greatness. Not the only one, but one of the pillars along with historical impact, great wins, skill set and other attributes.

would you rate loma higher if he first went 20-0 with the usual suspects on the way up, then added the 20ish fights you imagine hell in reality end up with.

[jamesmcdonnell]

I think the notion that this victory is being "flamboyantly celebrated" is an overstatement. This fight hardly gets mentioned without some form of "spent his career at 122" being mentioned as well.

There was a lot, and I mean A LOT, of P4P number one and ATG status talk about Loma before this fight happened. Once again, to talk as if there has been a spike in how fans appreciate Loma's abilities off of this fight again seems misplaced to me. Most of what I have read is people echoing Loma's own words that this wasn't his greatest victory.

As for fans having double standards about fighters they favor? What is he some kind of genius for figuring that out? If you want people who are balanced in how they view boxing, they are out there, just ignore the rest. Or read them purely for entertainment value as I do.

I though lomachenko was very classy at the end.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Was size the major fact in the fight? No. Did it impact on Rico's psychology going in there? More than likely. Should there be a caveat over Loma' s win? Certainly. Is lomachenko a very special fighter? Without doubt.

There are nuances. Lomachenko like all great fighters needs a dance partner. It may be he needs to go to 135 before we find one. He has incredible skills, absolutely without question, but fights are about styles, and sometimes a fighter with great skills is overcome by someone who seems crude. French v Nelson springs to mind, even though the result didnt go the right way.

I suspect lomachenko will be retired before he hits 20 fights. He will do great things In that time, but for me longevity is one of they keys to greatness. Not the only one, but one of the pillars along with historical impact, great wins, skill set and other attributes.

would you rate loma higher if he first went 20-0 with the usual suspects on the way up, then added the 20ish fights you imagine hell in reality end up with.

Perhaps. I'll give him credit though for not having fillers, and fighting the best, but I don't think you can disregard staying at top for a long time. It's hard to stay unbeaten. As much as I hated Floyd's late career, I have to respect the fact he was always in shape, always on point for every fight over 2 decades. Staying at the top is harder than getting there. Like Marvin said, it's hard to get up and go for a run when you're sleeping in silk pyjamas. In fact it requires a slightly perverse and skewed persona.

[BAD INTENTIONS]

I saw a fight between a Ukranian and a Cuban.

Are you telling me that some "white" dude from Montana is somehow in the same group as Lomachenko?
Rarely true historically.
Not true genetically.

Funny how when I'm rooting for Wlad over any fighter from anywhere, or leading the critique against Terrence Crawford, or promoting Kovalev as P4P #1 before anyone else here, or claiming Mikey Garcia is the best fighter in boxing, there is no mention of racial bias. Why not Saad?

Just amazing how a bunch of AMERICAN and BRITISH IDIOTS could look on at a Ukranian, Russian or Kazakhstani, and feel some connection because of skin color. IDIOT. It's almost a 99.9% certainty that you as an AMERICAN or BRITISH are genetically closer to most "black" people in your country, than you are to any of the "white" fighters". It's very likely that your ancestors had ZERO contact with Eastern Europeans, but had much more peaceful contact with "blacks" and "Arabs".

When did you guys become white really?
When you were killing a stadium worth of "your people" a day during WWII?

You idiots who believe in race ...

You don't think any Americans of German decent dropped bombs on Germany??? It was about winning the war, not what race Germans are... What was General Dwight Eisenhower's nationality.??? You don't think Vasyl Lomacheno is white??? ..., He's as white as any Anglo Saxon... He's racially in the same group as Anglo Saxons and NOT in the same racial grouping as African Americans.... It doesn't make any difference to me what race somebody is or isn't... It's all about how good a boxer he is... But a white dude from Montana is the same race as Lomachenko unless you're the dumbest guy on the planet.

Well, I guess he's dumb too ...

http://www.timwise.org/f-a-q-s/

[Kalan]

You're not just dumb... You're a freakin' imbecile...

What Tim Wise says is substantially correct... but he never said Lomachenko wasn't a white man and doesn't belong to the same racial grouping as Anglo Saxons, or other Caucasian racial groups

In the United States people are conditioned to racial identity.. What anybody can take from Tim Wise is an understanding of racial conditioning. The idea is prevalent in the United States and in North America really, that white folks are smarter, better organized, and more efficient business people and managers, and blacks are better athletes, dancers, and musicians. Both are foolish ideas, but nonetheless people get conditioned to them mentally because of cultural differences and upbringing.

Ukrainians and Eastern Europeans in general have no such conditioning or restrictive ideas because they haven’t lived in a society where they’re exposed to discrimination and de facto segregation based on race. Therefore they would have no reservations about being managed or advised by a black person or boxing a black person. Until they get exposed to our culture of course. And since Wise grew up in the United States he feels he’s been somewhat conditioned by these ideas himself, even if he doesn’t believe them. Just that fact that you’re living in America exposes you to this conditioning.

[MicCal]

The Ukraine has been competing at 130lbs (as a professional) since the start of 2016, which is pretty much the same weight he competed at as an amateur (132lbs from 2010).... for the last seven years, hence the nature of Vivek Wallace's comments.

I just think that people got offended about Vivek Wallace’s assertion that Lomachenko has mostly competed against smaller opponents, despite them not having fact-checked his boxing career, because the boxing scribe is technically "right"... even if the margins for most of his bouts haven't been that significant.

Well, if Vivek is right about "Lomachenko competing mostly against smaller opponents" because of the weight-class he competed at as an amateur, it is worthy to note that Andre Ward competed at light heavyweight as an amateur and won Olympic gold in that division. So why is he praising him for "going up" to fight Kovalev? Following his logic it should be rather stated that Ward beat smaller guys almost entire carrer, and only at the very end started to fight boxers of his size.

Considering this, I can understand why so many people see him as being biased and using double standards.