Enlightened-One wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 11:25
The Ukraine has been competing at 130lbs (as a professional) since the start of 2016, which is pretty much the same weight he competed at as an amateur (132lbs from 2010).... for the last seven years, hence the nature of Vivek Wallace's comments.
Enlightened-One wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 12:45
I just think that people got offended about Vivek Wallace’s assertion that Lomachenko has mostly competed against smaller opponents, despite them not having fact-checked his boxing career, because the boxing scribe is technically "right"... even if the margins for most of his bouts haven't been that significant.
Well, if Vivek is right about "Lomachenko competing mostly against smaller opponents" because of the weight-class he competed at as an amateur, it is worthy to note that Andre Ward competed at light heavyweight as an amateur and won Olympic gold in that division. So why is he praising him for "going up" to fight Kovalev? Following his logic it should be rather stated that Ward beat smaller guys almost entire carrer, and only at the very end started to fight boxers of his size.
Considering this, I can understand why so many people see him as being biased and using double standards.
The only reason why Andre Ward decided to compete as a light heavyweight during his amateur days, was to avoid sharing the ring with his cousin, despite being physically too small for that weight class:
What defines Ward is his bold decision to fight as a light heavyweight. He's really a natural middleweight, the lighter, 165-pound division he intends to enter when he turns professional after the Olympics.
Boxers seldom elect to fight above their optimal weight, and Ward's decision to be a light heavyweight stems from a deal he made years ago with his cousin, middleweight DonYil Livingston.
"We made a pact we wouldn't fight each other," Ward says of Livingston, who was the USA's third-ranked middleweight in 2002. To avoid the potential conflict, he moved up and took his chances. He remained a light heavyweight even though Livingston didn't contend for the Athens Olympics.
Simply put, Andre Ward was never a legitimate light heavyweight - he merely fought in that division out of loyalty for his cousin!
porter fought at 165 in the amateurs. thurman light middle.making weight for amateurs requires constantly weighing in over several days. size isnt perfectly matched to amateur weights.
is porter fighting much smaller men by competing at 147 as a pro? keep in mind that loma moved up in his 20s and won his second gold at like 24.
loma was a two division champ 7 fights in. hes fought plenty aroubd his size and quickly moved up, unlike ggg who he was oddly lumped into a similar category as. ggg almost 40 fights w/o moving up.not the same.
the only real fight loma had that ppl care about where he was significantly bigger was rigo. vivek wallace still thought rigo would win but then when he didnt he went on a rambling rant to discredit loma (and ggg yet pump up various fighters like paul williams, broner, and ward, hm) .seems sore that he was wrong.
imo loma not yet really at a point to be knocked like hes feasting on little guys. and no one really rates him for beating a guy like marriaga.
jamamb wrote: ↑15 Dec 2017, 06:16
btw ward won gold at 178 when he was 20. at 20 loma won gold at 126. at 20 ggg fought at 152.
the amateur weights dont really convince me in this argument tbh
I was addressing MicCal's assertion that Andre Ward mostly fought smaller guys, but we know for certain that this is not true. The S.O.G. made a premeditated decision to compete against bigger guys.
Whereas Lomachenko has pretty much competed at the same weight for the last seven years or so. He was technically bigger than most of his opponents during his pro career.
The rant starts by admitting that he thought Rigo would win. Then the second paragraph explains how Lomo didn't achieve much by winning a fight that the ranter thought he couldn't win. He sounds like someone who lost their money. He sounds as if he is better at having opinions based on hindsight rather than predicting outcomes.
It was not hard to predict that a small fighter has lost speed by his late thirties and going up two divisions meant he was never a serious chance. Lomo himself played down the value of the victory because he was fighting a smaller older fighter. At the end of the day I think Rigo just wanted a decent payday. I hope he enjoyed it because he won't get another. Even a one eyed man should be able to see Lomo is quality. How good we will find out in the next few years.
Disappointing some people seem so focused on race.
Kalan wrote: ↑14 Dec 2017, 19:35
You're not just dumb... You're a freakin' imbecile...
What Tim Wise says is substantially correct... but he never said Lomachenko wasn't a white man and doesn't belong to the same racial grouping as Anglo Saxons, or other Caucasian racial groups
In the United States people are conditioned to racial identity.. What anybody can take from Tim Wise is an understanding of racial conditioning. The idea is prevalent in the United States and in North America really, that white folks are smarter, better organized, and more efficient business people and managers, and blacks are better athletes, dancers, and musicians. Both are foolish ideas, but nonetheless people get conditioned to them mentally because of cultural differences and upbringing.
Ukrainians and Eastern Europeans in general have no such conditioning or restrictive ideas because they haven’t lived in a society where they’re exposed to discrimination and de facto segregation based on race. Therefore they would have no reservations about being managed or advised by a black person or boxing a black person. Until they get exposed to our culture of course. And since Wise grew up in the United States he feels he’s been somewhat conditioned by these ideas himself, even if he doesn’t believe them. Just that fact that you’re living in America exposes you to this conditioning.
No, he is saying that the whole notion that white is a group is wrong.
Many people in Lomachenkos region are genetically closer to “Asians” than 99% of white people in America.
But they look and are called white.
If it isn’t genetic, then your are just basing race on the visual grouping you’ve been taught. BECAUSE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING ISN’T SCIENCE, SO WHAT IS IT KALAN?
Your thinking could lead to a situation where grand children of the same four grandparents could be considered different races.
Because you are too stupid to realize your logic of race is fundamentally flawed.
