Lomachenko/ Mayweather @ 135

[Impractical Poster]

You knew it was coming.

[gilgamesh]

Wouldn't it make more sense to put the matchup at 130?

[Kalan]

YEEEESSSS INDEED!!! ... 130 NOT 135 ..... Since Floyd fought MOST of he pro fights at 130 - that's the most logical weight.

Lomachenko all the way on that one...

The 1st decent southpaw Floyd fought was Corley -- who went the distance with Floyd and rocked him with big shots.

The 2nd decent southpaw Floyd fought was Judah -- who messed Floyd up for 4 rounds and decked him... Later in the fight Judah really laid into Floyd with a body blow.... If that were an Eastern European on the receiving end Americans would say "He looked like he wanted to quit" - and agree with the fight being awarded to Judah... As it is Judah went the distance and Floyd, who was given a 5 minute break -- and got more than 12 minutes.

The first brilliant southpaw Lomachenko fought was undefeated Gary Russell -- who has brilliant hand and foot speed and tremendous punching power. He's the best Featherweight Champion... The other champs at that weight avoid Russell like the plague because they know they'll get knocked out... Lomachenko is still Russell's only loss and will remain his only loss.. I don't see anyone beating him if he stays at 126... Loma dominated Russell when he had 2 fight and is still the only man to beat him.

The next brilliant southpaw Loma fought was 2-time Olympic Gold Medalist - the undefeated Guillermo Rigondeaux... Lomachenko dominated the brilliant Cuban to the extent that Rigo quit in his corner - as Lomachenko's last 4 opponents did... Lomachenko said ruefully, "These guys keep quitting .... I should change my name to "No Mas Chenko.""

[Impractical Poster]

Wouldn't it make more sense to put the matchup at 130?

Ok. 130

[BroughtonRulesRefuge]

- Loma beats TUE at any weight any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

The only advantage he would have over Rigopoo is superior strength to grab and choke a much smaller fighter, plus he can always burst into his pretty boy tears and get his buddies like Bayliss and Cortez to drap themselves over Loma.

Now, imagine stink of Rigopoo vs TUE. Oh to watch the boxrec stinkers dive into that savory cesspool.

[Kalan]

Exactly....

For those fans who like to watch defensive wizards with extreme patience.... pot shotting expertise.... and taking their sweet time to figure their opponent out -- even if it takes all night -- Mayweather vs Rigondeaux would be a dream fight.

"Okay folks.... Here's a look at the punch stats for this 12-rounder .... there weren't a lot of punches thrown"

[gilgamesh]

I still gotta see more from Lomachenko before I'd favor him to beat the best boxer so far of the 21st century.

[Kalan]

The best boxer by far of the 21st Century is Vasyl Lomachenko.... Floyd couldn't even get great angles on crude, slow, and unskilled Jose Luis Castillo.... Floyd couldn't get angles on fainthearted Zab Judah... who was easily beating Floyd for 4 rounds and decked him.... Lomachenko has such foot speed and legerdemain that he even easily got angles on Guillermo Rigondeaux... who NOBODY gets angles on.

We haven't seen anything like Vasyl Lomachenko before... Boxing stagnates to a degree, because anything new an individual boxer brings to the sport is soon lost... Where in Basketball, something new that works finds it's way around the league and more than one team will be using it the following year.... Watch Lomachencko training his feet and hands from 1:40 to 3:57 of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcW-WX25rrc

[Chuck1052]

I have been very impressed with Vasyl Lomachenko, who has the most unique fighting style, as well as among the most baffling, I have ever seen when it comes to top fighters. Lomachenko ranks extremely high when it comes to ring generalship, footwork, confidence and preparation. My only reservation is that I don't know if he has the durability or the ability to come through in very adverse situations. As a result, I feel that it is far too early to say that Lomachenko is an all-time great or the best fighter of the 21st Century.

- Chuck Johnston

[Kalan]

My only reservation is that I don't know if he has the durability or the ability to come through in very adverse situations. As a result, I feel that it is far too early to say that Lomachenko is an all-time great - Chuck Johnston

I don't get it... How good does somebody have to be to be an ATG?? .... Do boxers get into adverse situations because they didn't train properly.... maybe their skills aren't that good.... or they don't have that much talent??? A big adversity is being robbed by the officials.. Lomachenko is familiar with that... He responded by dominating every opponent since... And after Lisa Giampa scored his Gary Russell fight a draw---to the shock of everyone---he's been even more dominant.

Ray Robinson faced adversity when he pooped out versus Joey Maxim .... and again when Ralph Jones (who was on a 5-fight losing streak at the time) started knocking Hell out of him.... Robbie failed to turn those Adverse situations around.

I would also say that if you won 396 of 397 amateur fights you have tremendous durability.... They used to say Cubans with 300 to 400 amateur fights were worn out when they turned pro... Lomachenko seems to be fresh as a daisy.

[jas80s]

The best boxer by far of the 21st Century is Vasyl Lomachenko.... Floyd couldn't even get great angles on crude, slow, and unskilled Jose Luis Castillo.... Floyd couldn't get angles on fainthearted Zab Judah... who was easily beating Floyd for 4 rounds and decked him.... Lomachenko has such foot speed and legerdemain that he even easily got angles on Guillermo Rigondeaux... who NOBODY gets angles on.

We haven't seen anything like Vasyl Lomachenko before... Boxing stagnates to a degree, because anything new an individual boxer brings to the sport is soon lost... Where in Basketball, something new that works finds it's way around the league and more than one team will be using it the following year.... Watch Lomachencko training his feet and hands from 1:40 to 3:57 of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcW-WX25rrc

Now Zab Judah "decked" Mayweather? Funny, because as you were eviscerating Tommy Hearns and pumping up Mayweather's otherworldly chin you came out with this...

"Floyd has never been down other than a glove touch (the referee waved it off because he didn't even see the glove touch it happened so fast).. He has a pretty solid chin when he needed it."

I'll say this, man...you don't hedge. You go alllll the way on your opinions. Even if they seem to change from minute to minute.


I would lean strongly toward Floyd in this fight, but I have to say, I think you are pretty spot on that he didn't adapt as quickly and efficiently to southpaws. But, in the end, Floyd has a reach advantage and is insanely skilled, I have a hard time imagining a smaller man beating him. Loma would have to take chances to bring the fight to Floyd, not easy to do.

[jamamb]

loma excellent but floyd just at another level .

[Kalan]

The best boxer by far of the 21st Century is Vasyl Lomachenko.... Floyd couldn't even get great angles on crude, slow, and unskilled Jose Luis Castillo.... Floyd couldn't get angles on fainthearted Zab Judah... who was easily beating Floyd for 4 rounds and decked him.... Lomachenko has such foot speed and legerdemain that he even easily got angles on Guillermo Rigondeaux... who NOBODY gets angles on.

We haven't seen anything like Vasyl Lomachenko before... Boxing stagnates to a degree, because anything new an individual boxer brings to the sport is soon lost... Where in Basketball, something new that works finds it's way around the league and more than one team will be using it the following year.... Watch Lomachencko training his feet and hands from 1:40 to 3:57 of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcW-WX25rrc

Now Zab Judah "decked" Mayweather? Funny, because as you were eviscerating Tommy Hearns and pumping up Mayweather's otherworldly chin you came out with this...

"Floyd has never been down other than a glove touch (the referee waved it off because he didn't even see the glove touch it happened so fast).. He has a pretty solid chin when he needed it."

I'll say this, man...you don't hedge. You go alllll the way on your opinions. Even if they seem to change from minute to minute.

You're full of lies and crap... My opinions are consistent... There's NOTHING inconsistent about "Floyd has never been down except for a glove touch" a true statement... and "Zab Judah decked Mayweather"... In the rules a boxing a glove touch COUNTS as a knockdown... If anything but the soles of your feet touch that canvas you're DOWN... The referee missed the knockdown... but on the replay showed Floyd was clearly decked from the glove that hit the deck...

I said Floyd was never knocked off his feet and has a Hell of a chin... Both are true statements.... Getting knocked into the ropes when they hold you up -- and a glove touch ARE knockdowns, although you weren't knocked off your feet.

I was comparing Floyd's very solid chin with Tommy Hearns's very weak chin.... That has nothing to do with Vasyl Lomachenko, who is more difficult to hit and a better offensive boxer than Floyd, Rigondeaux, Walters, Russell, or any other ATG boxer/puncher who possesses masterful skills....

Tommy Hearns isn't in that category... If he were real good he wouldn't have been flattened by guys with mediocre skills like Iran Barkley -- and Marv wouldn't blow Tommy away so much easier and faster than he did John Mugabi.

[Cmosqueda1103]

Floyd is the smartest at adapting but Im not sure a young Mayweather (at 130) in his early 20s adjusts to Lomachenko, 29, with all that skill and all that foot movement. It would a dream match of offense vs defense. I honestly do not think the shoulder roll defense hangs with all the speed an angles that Lomachenkos foot movement creates. But just my opinion.

[jas80s]

The best boxer by far of the 21st Century is Vasyl Lomachenko.... Floyd couldn't even get great angles on crude, slow, and unskilled Jose Luis Castillo.... Floyd couldn't get angles on fainthearted Zab Judah... who was easily beating Floyd for 4 rounds and decked him.... Lomachenko has such foot speed and legerdemain that he even easily got angles on Guillermo Rigondeaux... who NOBODY gets angles on.

We haven't seen anything like Vasyl Lomachenko before... Boxing stagnates to a degree, because anything new an individual boxer brings to the sport is soon lost... Where in Basketball, something new that works finds it's way around the league and more than one team will be using it the following year.... Watch Lomachencko training his feet and hands from 1:40 to 3:57 of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcW-WX25rrc

Now Zab Judah "decked" Mayweather? Funny, because as you were eviscerating Tommy Hearns and pumping up Mayweather's otherworldly chin you came out with this...

"Floyd has never been down other than a glove touch (the referee waved it off because he didn't even see the glove touch it happened so fast).. He has a pretty solid chin when he needed it."

I'll say this, man...you don't hedge. You go alllll the way on your opinions. Even if they seem to change from minute to minute.

You're full of lies and crap... My opinions are consistent... There's NOTHING inconsistent about "Floyd has never been down except for a glove touch" a true statement... and "Zab Judah decked Mayweather"... In the rules a boxing a glove touch COUNTS as a knockdown... If anything but the soles of your feet touch that canvas you're DOWN... The referee missed the knockdown... but on the replay showed Floyd was clearly decked from the glove that hit the deck...

I said Floyd was never knocked off his feet and has a Hell of a chin... Both are true statements.... Getting knocked into the ropes when they hold you up -- and a glove touch ARE knockdowns, although you weren't knocked off your feet.

I was comparing Floyd's very solid chin with Tommy Hearns's very weak chin.... That has nothing to do with Vasyl Lomachenko, who is more difficult to hit and a better offensive boxer than Floyd, Rigondeaux, Walters, Russell, or any other ATG boxer/puncher who possesses masterful skills....

Tommy Hearns isn't in that category... If he were real good he wouldn't have been flattened by guys with mediocre skills like Iran Barkley -- and Marv wouldn't blow Tommy away so much easier and faster than he did John Mugabi.

And I submit that there is a different in implication when one argues that fighter A "decked" fighter B versus arguing that Fighter A scored a knockdown on fighter B, but it was just a glove touch and it happened so fast that the ref didn't even see it.

Many who follow boxing know that there are different types of knockdowns. For instance, there are hard knockdowns where a flush shot lands square and the other fighter goes down hard and/or quickly and often suffers lingering effects from the blow as the fight progresses. This type of knockdown might be described as being "decked" though of course that is hardly the only way it might be described.

On the other hand, there are knockdowns known as "flash" knockdowns in which a fighter is caught with a shot, but the shot more surprises them or knocks them off balance. These knockdowns absolutely count and are completely legitimate, but the fighter suffering the knockdown is not hurt, and 99 percent of the time, suffers no impact on their ability to perform moving forward in the fight. This is how many view the uncalled Mayweather-Judah knockdown. And, I thought it was how you characterized the knockdown in the Hearns-Mayweather thread. But, I guess not. It seems the Mayweather-Judah knockdown was both of these types of knockdowns, which is indeed, not at all inconsistent.

No need to get mad and attack me, however. I just thought it was interesting that you chose to argue that Floyd's chin might be a concern against Lomachenko and not a concern versus Tommy Hearns...A very unconventional take.

[jas80s]

Floyd is the smartest at adapting but Im not sure a young Mayweather (at 130) in his early 20s adjusts to Lomachenko, 29, with all that skill and all that foot movement. It would a dream match of offense vs defense. I honestly do not think the shoulder roll defense hangs with all the speed an angles that Lomachenkos foot movement creates. But just my opinion.

This is a really good point that I hadn't really considered. If we are talking about Floyd at 130 then the experience probably favors Loma, at least somewhat. Granted, the ring smarts and savvy of Floyd seem to have come quite naturally, but they were no doubt honed to an even sharper edge by experience. Conversely, younger Floyd was even faster and, at the lower weight, was an even more dangerous puncher so that could offset the relative lack of experience. But, I must admit, I was making the mistake of merging the young fast Mayweather with the older fighter that possessed an even more ridiculous ring IQ, which isn't entirely fair to Lomachenko in this match up.

Welcome to the board.

[Kalan]

There is a different in implication when one argues that fighter A "decked" fighter B versus arguing that Fighter A scored a knockdown on fighter B, but it was just a glove touch and it happened so fast that the ref didn't even see it.

Many who follow boxing know that there are different types of knockdowns. For instance, there are hard knockdowns where a flush shot lands square and the other fighter goes down hard and/or quickly and often suffers lingering effects from the blow as the fight progresses. This type of knockdown might be described as being "decked" though of course that is hardly the only way it might be described

There's no implication for the word "decked" in the sport of Boxing other than a knockdown was scored... "Knockdown" is a descriptive term in itself... If you were talking about a street brawl you wouldn't use either term if somebody recovered their balance with a hand touch of the asphalt or whatever surface the street fighters were settling their dispute on - because somebody would get the visual of one of the brawlers being knocked on his can or knocked off his feet.

I understand your point that Floyd suffered a mild knockdown - but he WAS down and it was a fast, championship caliber southpaw who messed Floyd up for 4 rounds and decked him in the process... Floyd is a chess player....and makes great adjustments... He turns fights around in his favor when he's getting his ass kicked for a number of rounds... But with Lomachenko -- once he figures you out he never gives you another look in -- because he adjusts to your adjustments as fast as you make them... He converted his amateur skills to the pro ranks in 2 fights... Who does that?

But Floyd is smarter than Leonard, or any previous boxer who came before him, and Hearns would be easy meat for him... Hearns isn't too bright and was certainly outsmarted by Leonard, Hagler, and Barkley... They all had Tommy timed to a T and knocked the crap out of him... Although it took SRL 14 rounds to get Hearns outta here.

Leonard lost concentration in the Hearns rematch... Dundee warned him for goofing around... Sugar Ray came back in the Duran rubber match a little bit, but he seemed to lose focus on Boxing rather early and Norris completely routed him... I told some friends who were watching that fight with me "This is the last you're going to see of Leonard." ... Norris even observed something to the effect of, "This isn't the Leonard who fought Benitez... This is a man who skipped out on the Middleweight Division and is looking a paycheck."

[Kalan]

And there are dumb asses like you -- who don't have an analytical bone in their body.

It MATTERS NOT how many more chess pieces you have versus your opponent when you get check-mated.... You sacrifice 6 or 7 chess pieces to deliver the death blow... It matters not how far ahead you are when you get stopped... Leonard was saving his strength for a big finish... Dundee kept saying "Don't go to sleep on me Ray" and "You're blowing it son .... you're blowing it." But as Dundee was admonishing Leonard, you could see the wheels turning in Ray's brain.

Leonard was a lot smarter than Dundee...

Ray could feel Tommy weakening round by round... There was no way the skinny dandelion stem was going to go 15... SRL bided his time... Leonard's fights with Hagler and Hearns prove he's a better strategic thinker than either... When the last drop of gas left the tank - Leonard nailed Hearns with a slow, roundhouse, right hand swing that Hearns saw coming, but couldn't avoid... Leonard thrust both hands skyward in triumph - the victory was his at that moment.

[Counter-puncher]

And there are dumb asses like you -- who don't have an analytical bone in their body.

It MATTERS NOT how many more chess pieces you have versus your opponent when you get check-mated.... You sacrifice 6 or 7 chess pieces to deliver the death blow... It matters not how far ahead you are when you get stopped... Leonard was saving his strength for a big finish... Dundee kept saying "Don't go to sleep on me Ray" and "You're blowing it son .... you're blowing it." But as Dundee was admonishing Leonard, you could see the wheels turning in Ray's brain.

Leonard was a lot smarter than Dundee...

Ray could feel Tommy weakening round by round... There was no way the skinny dandelion stem was going to go 15... SRL bided his time... Leonard's fights with Hagler and Hearns prove he's a better strategic thinker than either... When the last drop of gas left the tank - Leonard nailed Hearns with a slow, roundhouse, right hand swing that Hearns saw coming, but couldn't avoid... Leonard thrust both hands skyward in triumph - the victory was his at that moment.

Yeah, Leonard was real smart and playing a waiting game, deliberately getting beaten half-blind so Hearns tired himself out, getting an eye that looked like it had been hit with a hammer was all part of the plan

[Kalan]

He didn't plan on getting that eye doofus.... He planned on making Hearns move and throw a lot -- cuz he could feel him weakening round by round... It's not his job to avoid all possible punishment in a prize fight ... but to win.

He didn't know how bad the eye was until after his next fight with Bruce Finch when he was training for Stafford.

[BitPlayer]

Loma hasn't done near enough to be considered able to beat Mayweather.

[Kalan]

He's done more than enough.... When has Floyd won 2 Olympic Gold Medals or beaten 3 World Championship caliber boxer-punchers who were undefeated --and had the skills of Gary Russell, Nicholas Walters, and Guillermo Rigondeaux?

[Kalan]

Vitali didn't get stopped legitimately... The cuts were caused by numerous fouls so you go to the scorecards.

Floyd suffered a technical knocked down with the glove touch... He wasn't knocked off his feet, battered, and trashed like Tommy Hearns was a few times... Hearns withered like a snowman in the sun when he got hit... Give credit to Zab for knocking Floyd down and out-boxing him for 4 rounds... His southpaw sneakiness fooled Floyd for a while... Money needed to hop on his war horse and go after him... The jab, hook, right hand combination worked well and he beat Zab up.

[Ned Merrill]

Vitali DID get stopped legitimately, by an overweight 37 year-old Lewis, who by that point, was fettered with a year's inactivity and ring rust. If Klitschko was the ring wizard many have made him out to be, at the far closer to his peak age (when he slowed danced with Lenny), not only should Vitali have managed better defensive timing and tactics, he should have floored Lewis at some point. Instead it was a sloppy affair. Credit to Lewis for dragging the desperate-to-prove-his-heart Klitschko into a prolonged and mostly unnecessary dogfight.

There are some fans (and many idolaters) who believe Vitali didn't lose because he wasn't flat-out stopped, but in boxing the stoppage can be called for a number of reasons. Vitali was shredded to pieces. I credit him for proving his heart and his mettle, but he was crimson from some serious lacerations and ripe for the call.

Perhaps Vitali should have done something more in his effort to win, it might have made the difference again the older, sub-par Lewis, rather than the reach many have been making for over a decade, to insert a degree of revisionism here.

As for today's favorite idol (yes, that's what he is to many), I'm not sure we can pit him against Mayweather at 130 accurately, given Floyd pulled that class in a full decade younger than Lomanchenko. Experience and pedigree count for much. So do smoke and mirrors.

I wanna see more from the fine Ukraine star, and against guys bigger than him, under the age of virtual ring senior citizenry.

[Kalan]

Vitali DID get stopped legitimately

Your post is patronizing BS... I don't know how biased fans live with their conscience spouting nonsense like that...

PLEASE WATCH the first 20 seconds of the 3rd round -- AFTER Lewis almost got knocked out in the first 2 rounds... Lewis was desperate because Manny TOLD him he was losing the fight... Steward TOLD Lewis to foul Vitali... The FIRST 2 RIGHT HANDS LEWIS THREW IN THE 3RD round were foul blows... The 1st a right handed thumb strike that caught the corner of VK's left eye and nicked it... the 2nd a bold holding-n-hitting palm slash where he had Vitali in a headlock... Lewis also rubbed his head and hair directly into Vitali's nicked eye as he grabbed him around the neck.

So there were 4 reasons (fouls) to send the fight to the scorecards.... 1. The thumb strike can be clearly seen nicking Vitali's left eyelid... 2. The palm slash. Hitting with any part of the glove other than the end of the fist is a foul.... 3. Holding-n-hitting is ALSO a foul blow. Lewis clearly was holding-n-hitting when he delivered the palm slash... 4. Illegal head work. Lewis grabbed Vitali around the neck and pulled his left eye DIRECTLY into his head and hair to worsen the cut.