Will be King Kong Ortiz victim #40?

[IronFrost]

Ortiz is probably the best opponent after Anthony Joshua right now.


So if Wilder is so bad as many of you said , someone skilled and ranked high like Luis Ortiz should have no problem winning against Wilder.



Or are there any other good boxers right now?

And please do not say DILIAN WHYTE - or i will die by LAUGH

[littlepug]

The short answer is no, I don't even rate any of the champions that highly, we have had the feast and are now left with crumbs

[Stuarty]

Povetkin, Parker, Pulev and Miller are decent but as pug said even the champs are mediocre nowadays. BoxRec has Bellew rated 5th best at heavyweight ffs! Says it all!

[IronFrost]

Povetkin, Parker, Pulev and Miller are decent but as pug said even the champs are mediocre nowadays. BoxRec has Bellew rated 5th best at heavyweight ffs! Says it all!

But are those guys dangerous like Luis Ortiz?

For example Pulev has no power , Povetkin has short reach and is very small compare to Wilder or Joshua,

Miller is not on Ortiz's level at all. Slow and pounderous.


Seems like Joseph Parker and Luis Ortiz are the best choices and the most dangerous opponents for Wilder or Joshua

[boxing_rocks]

He will be definitely the first opponent who will fight back.

[Stuarty]

Povetkin, Parker, Pulev and Miller are decent but as pug said even the champs are mediocre nowadays. BoxRec has Bellew rated 5th best at heavyweight ffs! Says it all!

But are those guys dangerous like Luis Ortiz?

For example Pulev has no power , Povetkin has short reach and is very small compare to Wilder or Joshua,

Miller is not on Ortiz's level at all. Slow and pounderous.


Seems like Joseph Parker and Luis Ortiz are the best choices and the most dangerous opponents for Wilder or Joshua

I've not been impressed with Ortiz his last few fights. He's been fuckin dreadful. I think Wilder will KO him in three tbh.

[IronFrost]

Povetkin, Parker, Pulev and Miller are decent but as pug said even the champs are mediocre nowadays. BoxRec has Bellew rated 5th best at heavyweight ffs! Says it all!

But are those guys dangerous like Luis Ortiz?

For example Pulev has no power , Povetkin has short reach and is very small compare to Wilder or Joshua,

Miller is not on Ortiz's level at all. Slow and pounderous.


Seems like Joseph Parker and Luis Ortiz are the best choices and the most dangerous opponents for Wilder or Joshua

I've not been impressed with Ortiz his last few fights. He's been fuckin dreadful. I think Wilder will KO him in three tbh.

Who looked great in their recent fights ? Povetkin and Parker were just so bad. And Kubrat fought ghosts like Peter or Kingpin No one looked GREAT

[Dancin' Dan]

Every decent opponent is dangerous for Wilder. I am amazed how many folks don't simply look at his record. He has not fought a single top ten opponent. Zero. Ortiz is getting older but is a big puncher and one of the most dangerous out there. Funny how both Poventkin and Ortiz are now clear to fight after the messes with Wilder. Wilder needs to fight someone in the top ten before he is 50-0. Joshua's record is mind boggling better with much fewer fights.

[Stuarty]

But are those guys dangerous like Luis Ortiz?

For example Pulev has no power , Povetkin has short reach and is very small compare to Wilder or Joshua,

Miller is not on Ortiz's level at all. Slow and pounderous.


Seems like Joseph Parker and Luis Ortiz are the best choices and the most dangerous opponents for Wilder or Joshua

I've not been impressed with Ortiz his last few fights. He's been fuckin dreadful. I think Wilder will KO him in three tbh.

Who looked great in their recent fights ? Povetkin and Parker were just so bad. And Kubrat fought ghosts like Peter or Kingpin No one looked GREAT

I'm not beating the drum for any of those guys mate. I said they're decent. Ortiz isn't anything special either. The division as a whole is pretty grim.

[candyslim]

I would pick the Ortiz who crushed Bryant Jennings to school Wilder. Wilder would have just a puncher's chance that he will always have - you can never write him off entirely.

Is Ortiz still that same fighter? If the fight went ahead Ortiz would be 39 officially and could be a lot older. He hasn't impressed in his last fights and looks to be on the slide.

If Haymon thought Ortiz was as good now as he was two or three years ago, there is no way in my opinion that he would be risking Wilder fighting Ortiz in a voluntary defence. History shows team Wilder to be risk averse.

Even now I'm not really expecting the fight to happen.

[IronFrost]

I would pick the Ortiz who crushed Bryant Jennings to school Wilder. Wilder would have just a puncher's chance that he will always have - you can never write him off entirely.

Is Ortiz still that same fighter? If the fight went ahead Ortiz would be 39 officially and could be a lot older. He hasn't impressed in his last fights and looks to be on the slide.

If Haymon thought Ortiz was as good now as he was two or three years ago, there is no way in my opinion that he would be risking Wilder fighting Ortiz in a voluntary defence. History shows team Wilder to be risk averse.

Even now I'm not really expecting the fight to happen.

Canelo , Klitschko and many others started with good opposition late too .... Don't get wet because Joshua became "cash cow" and it was worth for them against Wlad who barely trhew a punch in his recent fight

[candyslim]

Wilder hasn't started yet though has he? Let's see if he does.

[SenorPipino]

Every decent opponent is dangerous for Wilder. I am amazed how many folks don't simply look at his record. He has not fought a single top ten opponent. Zero. Ortiz is getting older but is a big puncher and one of the most dangerous out there. Funny how both Poventkin and Ortiz are now clear to fight after the messes with Wilder. Wilder needs to fight someone in the top ten before he is 50-0. Joshua's record is mind boggling better with much fewer fights.

Of course. Joshua has fought one HOF fighter after another.

Sheesh.

With the exception of ancient Klitschko, who was on his last leg, there's no reason to say that Joshua's resume is "mind boggling better."

BJ Flores is hungry for a fight with Whyte, so how could a heavyweight could he be?

[candyslim]

Joshua has wins over top ten (then or now) contenders Dillian Whyte, Charles Martin, Dominic Breazeale, Wladimir Klitschko, and Carlos Takam. Take Martin out of the equation and anyone of them would be favoured to beat any Wilder opponent you care to name.

This despite having half the number of fights and having been a pro for half the amount of time. If you're not impressed it's because you don't want to be.

I suppose WK being on the last leg (of his long career) is accurate in a literal sense, but I seriously doubt Wilder could have coped with him that night and emerged the winner, even in the unlikely event he were up for the challenge.

Your Flores comment; I couldn't work out what it was you were attempting to say.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Joshua has wins over top ten (then or now) contenders Dillian Whyte, Charles Martin, Dominic Breazeale, Wladimir Klitschko, and Carlos Takam. Take Martin out of the equation and anyone of them would be favoured to beat any Wilder opponent you care to name.

This despite having half the number of fights and having been a pro for half the amount of time. If you're not impressed it's because you don't want to be.

I suppose WK being on the last leg (of his long career) is accurate in a literal sense, but I seriously doubt Wilder could have coped with him that night and emerged the winner, even in the unlikely event he were up for the challenge.

Your Flores comment; I couldn't work out what it was you were attempting to say.

I agree. Wlad on his showing against joshua would have destroyed wilder.

[Badhusker]

Joshua has wins over top ten (then or now) contenders Dillian Whyte, Charles Martin, Dominic Breazeale, Wladimir Klitschko, and Carlos Takam. Take Martin out of the equation and anyone of them would be favoured to beat any Wilder opponent you care to name.

This despite having half the number of fights and having been a pro for half the amount of time. If you're not impressed it's because you don't want to be.

I suppose WK being on the last leg (of his long career) is accurate in a literal sense, but I seriously doubt Wilder could have coped with him that night and emerged the winner, even in the unlikely event he were up for the challenge.

Your Flores comment; I couldn't work out what it was you were attempting to say.

I agree. Wlad on his showing against joshua would have destroyed wilder.

I just love arguments that compare this guys opponents would beat any of that guys opponents, meaning that is why he is better. Candy you are such a doofus.

As far as the laughable Wlad that showed against Joshua would have destroyed Wilder. Logically, the Wlad that fought Fury, being a year and a half younger and active, would be better than a non-active 41 yr old Wlad that was out of the ring for a year and a half. How many boxers all of a sudden get significantly better between 39 and 41? Could the difference possibly be the style of the opponent? Why did Wlad choose to fight Joshua instead of Wilder? He fought him because he saw things he could expose, knew he was still green, and was less of a risk than the wild devastating puncher Wilder is.

The most devastating thing that could happen in the heavyweight scene right now is Joshua losing to Wilder, and AJ nuthuggers hate the thought with a passion. I think Ortiz presents a big challenge for Wilder, and is possibly a tougher challenge for Wilder than Joshua is. Ortiz is better skilled, just older. One thing for sure, is Joshua is not in a hurry to fight either guy.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Joshua has wins over top ten (then or now) contenders Dillian Whyte, Charles Martin, Dominic Breazeale, Wladimir Klitschko, and Carlos Takam. Take Martin out of the equation and anyone of them would be favoured to beat any Wilder opponent you care to name.

This despite having half the number of fights and having been a pro for half the amount of time. If you're not impressed it's because you don't want to be.

I suppose WK being on the last leg (of his long career) is accurate in a literal sense, but I seriously doubt Wilder could have coped with him that night and emerged the winner, even in the unlikely event he were up for the challenge.

Your Flores comment; I couldn't work out what it was you were attempting to say.

I agree. Wlad on his showing against joshua would have destroyed wilder.

I just love arguments that compare this guys opponents would beat any of that guys opponents, meaning that is why he is better. Candy you are such a doofus.

As far as the laughable Wlad that showed against Joshua would have destroyed Wilder. Logically, the Wlad that fought Fury, being a year and a half younger and active, would be better than a non-active 41 yr old Wlad that was out of the ring for a year and a half. How many boxers all of a sudden get significantly better between 39 and 41? Could the difference possibly be the style of the opponent? Why did Wlad choose to fight Joshua instead of Wilder? He fought him because he saw things he could expose, knew he was still green, and was less of a risk than the wild devastating puncher Wilder is.

The most devastating thing that could happen in the heavyweight scene right now is Joshua losing to Wilder, and AJ nuthuggers hate the thought with a passion. I think Ortiz presents a big challenge for Wilder, and is possibly a tougher challenge for Wilder than Joshua is. Ortiz is better skilled, just older. One thing for sure, is Joshua is not in a hurry to fight either guy.

Wlad showed better skills against Joshua than arguably any fight before. He was mobile, evasive, threw the jab well, and showed a tonne of heart. What he couldn't change, was his innate self, he had Joshua out on his feet for maybe 2 rounds, but instead of just putting his foot on the gas, he looked for the perfect opening, because he never got over the KO losses earlier in his career, and had inbuilt cautioun.

Ortiz, sadly, is probably going to be just another cuban, who tasted a bit of money, and lost his desire, it's happened many times before, at numerous weights. He can box, he can punch, he can do it all, but he's old, and without the right backing, it will come too late. He's definitely better on paper than Wilder, has better skills than Joshua, but he's pissed a fair bit of his career away already, and given the chance, probably won't have the desire to come through. Wilder is crap, he has probably the worst boxing skills of any heavyweight champ ever, including the likes of Ruiz, but when it comes to it, in a big fight, I'll bet Ortiz loses, because he's already made way more money than he ever dreamed of.

Joshua isn't a great fighter, his skills are quite ordinary, Wlad or Vitali were better big men, Bowe definitely so, but I'm prepared to bet, than in the next 5 years, I'll be surprised if Joshua loses a single fight, because the opposition just isn't up to much.

Dubois is probably the only guy on the radar. I expect that fight will happen within 2 years, mainly because there's nobody else to fight.

The heavyweight division has ALWAYS had a paucity of talent, more now than ever.

[jamesmcdonnell]

Joshua has wins over top ten (then or now) contenders Dillian Whyte, Charles Martin, Dominic Breazeale, Wladimir Klitschko, and Carlos Takam. Take Martin out of the equation and anyone of them would be favoured to beat any Wilder opponent you care to name.

This despite having half the number of fights and having been a pro for half the amount of time. If you're not impressed it's because you don't want to be.

I suppose WK being on the last leg (of his long career) is accurate in a literal sense, but I seriously doubt Wilder could have coped with him that night and emerged the winner, even in the unlikely event he were up for the challenge.

Your Flores comment; I couldn't work out what it was you were attempting to say.

I agree. Wlad on his showing against joshua would have destroyed wilder.

I just love arguments that compare this guys opponents would beat any of that guys opponents, meaning that is why he is better. Candy you are such a doofus.

As far as the laughable Wlad that showed against Joshua would have destroyed Wilder. Logically, the Wlad that fought Fury, being a year and a half younger and active, would be better than a non-active 41 yr old Wlad that was out of the ring for a year and a half. How many boxers all of a sudden get significantly better between 39 and 41? Could the difference possibly be the style of the opponent? Why did Wlad choose to fight Joshua instead of Wilder? He fought him because he saw things he could expose, knew he was still green, and was less of a risk than the wild devastating puncher Wilder is.

The most devastating thing that could happen in the heavyweight scene right now is Joshua losing to Wilder, and AJ nuthuggers hate the thought with a passion. I think Ortiz presents a big challenge for Wilder, and is possibly a tougher challenge for Wilder than Joshua is. Ortiz is better skilled, just older. One thing for sure, is Joshua is not in a hurry to fight either guy.

Wlad would have exploited the huge technical flaws in Wilder. Deontay wouldn't have got near him with that wild windmilling attack, and his own jab would have been totally nullified.

Wlad may have been past his physical peak against Joshua, but he fought a smart fight, with lots of lateral and head movement and lots of feints. He came very close to stopping Joshua, and but for his own mental makeup, had him there for the taking.

I don't think that AJ is that amazing, I'd have picked Wlad in his prime to win, and especially Vitali. Lewis would have marmalised him in a couple of rounds, but he's probably the best there is now. Wilder is awful, he has terrible technique and balance, and has fought absolutely nobody. Dubois, raw as he is, would be slight favourite.

Tyson Fury looks like a master boxer in todays environment, and is far from it.

[candyslim]

Badhusker: Until Wilder and Joshua meet in the ring we fans can only speculate as to what will happen. I don't say in my post AJ will definitely win. He is more skilled, throws straighter punches, hits almost as hard as Wilder, has shown heart and the ability to come back from the brink. He has fought tougher opponents and has more self belief.

Wilder has the power to knock out anyone he can catch clean and Joshua is no exception. He is athletic, unorthodox, unpredictable, and seems to have better stamina.

I think Josh wins and may win very easily but you cannot rule out a Wilder knockout scenario.

That wasn't the point of my post. It was a counter to Senor Pipino's suggestion that Joshua's record isn't significantly superior.

C'mon BH for a man who is always condemning anyone whose opinion differs from yours as being unintelligent, and is therefore highly intelligent by implication (in your own estimation if no one else's) I shouldn't need to explain this (see line above) to you. Get with the programme.

[Badhusker]

Unlike most posters here, I don't give Joshua the huge amount of credit for his win vs Wlad, because of Wlad's age, being out of the ring for 1.5 years, and how he looked in the fight previously. My point is that Wlad looking much better had something to do with the opponent, their style, and many fail to admit it had anything at all to do with it.

Now we have Wilder apparently lined up against Ortiz, who is about 2 years younger than Wlad was, is undefeated, active, and those same posters are already attempting to downplay the win of Wilder over Ortiz. (Just in case it happens)

My other point is that just because the quality of opponents are different, it doesn't necessarily mean one guy beats the other. It would be stupid for me to say that I think Canelo's top five opponents are better than GGG's, so he is automatically better than GGG. It would be equally stupid to say it has no significance at all. It just isn't a huge factor.

And if Wilder somehow beats them all? Most will say it is only because the current heavyweight scene is crap. Reminds me a little of George Foreman's prime era, since his technical skills were sub-par, and not any better than Wilder's. Wait, he was among good heavyweights!

[candyslim]

Unlike most posters here, I don't give Joshua the huge amount of credit for his win vs Wlad, because of Wlad's age, being out of the ring for 1.5 years, and how he looked in the fight previously. My point is that Wlad looking much better had something to do with the opponent, their style, and many fail to admit it had anything at all to do with it.

cs: Yes Joshua's style is far more suited to Klitscho than Fury's was. As I've recently posted, Fury has the tools to nullify Klitschko and I believe would be likely to beat him if they were both at their peak. That's not to say Fury is a better fighter than wlad any more than Norton was better than Ali. As you say it's a matter of styles.

cs: Also I believe Wlad's long time dominance of the division made him complacent which wouldn't have helped him in the Fury fight.

Now we have Wilder apparently lined up against Ortiz, who is about 2 years younger than Wlad was, is undefeated, active, and those same posters are already attempting to downplay the win of Wilder over Ortiz. (Just in case it happens)

cs: I take your point but there were serious doubts about a 41 year old, 15 months inactive, coming off a loss, Klitschko as well. I was expecting a short blast out for AJ. There is a reason why the inexperienced Joshua was the favourite, and that isn't because Wlad was thought to be inferior, just old and passed his best. Maybe Ortiz will prove the doubters wrong but Deontay had better hope not.

cs: You don't need me to tell you that Klitschko came in as fit and motivated as any 41 year old could be. I would give Wilder more chance against Joshua next year than I would have given him against Wlad that night. Wlad would have boxed his ears off and stopped him, no question in my mind. It's a question of relative vulnerability.

cs: Do I think a younger Wlad would have stopped AJ in round 6. Maybe, but I think Wlad's naturally cautious approach was his undoing, more so than his age.

My other point is that just because the quality of opponents are different, it doesn't necessarily mean one guy beats the other. It would be stupid for me to say that I think Canelo's top five opponents are better than GGG's, so he is automatically better than GGG. It would be equally stupid to say it has no significance at all. It just isn't a huge factor.

cs: Yes, again I take your point, but when discussing the respective merits of boxers who have never fought, what else do fans have to go on (other than the hugely subjective and unreliable eye-test) but a comparison of their records? It's far from infallible.

cs: Wilder's failure to test himself against the best available, and thereby learning how to overcome better and better opponents, might well come back to bite him on the arse. There again he carries that equalizer so I'm taking nothing for granted and neither I'm sure, will Joshua.

And if Wilder somehow beats them all? Most will say it is only because the current heavyweight scene is crap. Reminds me a little of George Foreman's prime era, since his technical skills were sub-par, and not any better than Wilder's. Wait, he was among good heavyweights!

cs: Some undoubtedly will, we boxing fans are not always known for our objectivity and neither of us are without sin in that respect.

My comments above preceded by cs:

[candyslim]

See ... we can play nicely. We don't need to insult each other (as fun as that might be )

[marvelous marv]

Wilder has defensive issues in general but especially against southpaw fighters. I sat ringside for the Szpilka fight and he landed with regularity against Wilder but didn't have the explosiveness to hurt him. Ortiz has a very good inside game. This is a very risky fight for Wilder.

[candyslim]

True dat

[jamamb]

ha, funny how ever since it looked like wilder would fight him the first time so many ppl have went from raving about ortiz to acting like hes just another of the supposed bums. if wilder wins this he easily has a win topping pretty much anything the other active hws have done, and his resume is already top 3 despite all the shit it gets. face it, compared to the other hws today hes just not as bad or as unproven as ppl want to make it seem.

ortiz = #40 (#39)