Great article comparing PBF vs P4P All Time Greats

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 12 Apr 2006, 09:20

http://www.maxboxing.com/Fischer/Fischer041206.asp

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 12 Apr 2006, 10:38

It's shit imo.

You cannot compare fighters cross era.

mattyp151 · Post by **mattyp151** » 12 Apr 2006, 10:43

Southpaw Stylist wrote:It's shit imo.

You cannot compare fighters cross era.

Why not? He's just showing in comparison where Floyd stands at this point in his career against where other greats were. Any harm in that?

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 12 Apr 2006, 10:44

Doug Fischer looks at things through rose tinted glasses.

Hence why I think his article is shit.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Apr 2006, 10:45

It's not like the article is going back to the 1940's though is it?

I think it's fairly obvious to anyone with even half a brain that SRL has achieved a lot more than Floyd has to date. He was fortunate that he was in the same era as Benitez, Hearns, Hagler and Duran, but to beat them all is some feat.

Mayweather needs to take on a bona-fide welterweight champ, I think he should really drop down to LW, which is his better weight and take on the crop there. His lack of pop at 147 gives other fighters a shot.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 12 Apr 2006, 10:50

what the article is really driving at is Doug Fischer's continued stance on Floyd's PFP ranking - ie. what have you done for me lately?

After tackling the likes of Hernandez, Corrales and Castillo at 135 and below, Floyd's oposition level has taken a nose dive in recent times.

I think the article throws up some valid conclusions and shows us the PBF is still a good way from cementing the kind of legacy true legends have: such as Leonard and Ali.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Apr 2006, 11:04

Southpaw Stylist wrote:Doug Fischer looks at things through rose tinted glasses.

Hence why I think his article is shit.

Rose tinted or not, the guys on his list are true legends who have proven themselves to be some of the greatest fighters of all time. Right now Floyd is a great fighter who is not taking on other great fighters. Since he started trucking through the divisions, his career hasn't looked so spectacular.

Sadly for Floyd, there isn't another fighter on a par with him right now in terms of skills, Duran, Leonard and Hearns were all incredibly well schooled fighters, and Hagler was a guy who was a very underrated boxer with a 'get out of my fornicating ring' attitude.

A cash in fight against DLH won't prove a great deal, so he's got to take on the likes of Hatton, Cotto, Margarito,

Sure Mayweather is superb, but using Gatti as a punching bag and beating Judah proves only what we already know, that Mayweather has the best skills around, and can easily beat B level fighters. What we need now is an A grade opponent who can ask questions of Floyd in the way that Castillo did.

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 12 Apr 2006, 11:07

Didn't Floyd's people offer Hatton a bout?

Didn't Floyd's people offer Margarito a bout?

Bob Arum has explicitly stated they offered both parties these bouts and they turned him down.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 12 Apr 2006, 11:09

Southpaw Stylist wrote:Didn't Floyd's people offer Hatton a bout?

Didn't Floyd's people offer Margarito a bout?

Bob Arum has explicitly stated they offered both parties these bouts and they turned him down.

Still think Margarito will be Mayweather's next fight. Arum sounded pretty confident after Margarito's last fight.

mattyp151 · Post by **mattyp151** » 12 Apr 2006, 11:20

Well, with Ricky turning down Floyd twice, and Cotto busy scraping up Floyd's leftovers, what in the world is there for him to do at LWW? Hang around, fight 3 more Bruseles type fighters, have people get on him even moreso, or move up to where there are more available fights that are good for him. Judah, Margarito, Oscar, Shane, now Hatton, Collazo actually called out Floyd, Gatti again, Baldomir...there is more to do at 147 than 140, easily.

As for Floyd not carrying power...when has he ever shown true power? He's not a KO guy, never has been. He is an accumulation puncher who wins UDs like it's nothing. Just as Pernell Whitaker wasn't trying to beat everyone by KO, Floyd does the same. A win is a win, a dominating UD can be even worse than a 4th round KO...ask Jeff Lacy.

Smit · Post by **Smit** » 12 Apr 2006, 11:20

Southpaw Stylist wrote:Didn't Floyd's people offer Hatton a bout?

Didn't Floyd's people offer Margarito a bout?

Bob Arum has explicitly stated they offered both parties these bouts and they turned him down.

Arum says alot of things...

mattyp151 · Post by **mattyp151** » 12 Apr 2006, 11:23

Smit wrote:
Southpaw Stylist wrote:Didn't Floyd's people offer Hatton a bout?

Didn't Floyd's people offer Margarito a bout?

Bob Arum has explicitly stated they offered both parties these bouts and they turned him down.
Arum says alot of things...

Hatton's people said they turned it down....no will you believe it? I love how nothing is true until Ray Hatton says it...even though he's the same guy who said Ricky wanted Corrales, Castillo, Cotto, or Freitas as his next fight after Maussa....and we end up with Luis Collazo.

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 12 Apr 2006, 11:24

Arum says a lot of things, I agree.

But I have not heard these claims denied by Hatton's people or Margarito's.

Coconut · Post by **Coconut** » 12 Apr 2006, 11:31

The impression I get is that Hatton's people did indeed turn it down, but that Arum made it very easy for them to turn it down.

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 12 Apr 2006, 11:33

I think it is difficult over time to weigh up achievements of fighters.

If Floyd were to beat DLH or Mosley, this feat would stand up to the test of time a lot better than a win over Margarito. Even though the Margarito fight is a lot more dangerous (given that he is a monster of a welterweight while PBF is a small one), the fact that he is not and never has been an 'elite' fighter would not make a win over him on his record stand out enough to convince future generations of fans in the same way it would convince the current generation.

It's not what we want, but it seems unfortunately true that the best way for a fighter to be remembered in future years is to fight the biggest names of his era, rather than the most dangerous opponents. It also makes the most financial sense considering the huge gulf in revenue generated between a match up against a big name fighter and a relatively unknown high risk fighter.

lirva33 · Post by **lirva33** » 12 Apr 2006, 11:34

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Southpaw Stylist wrote:Doug Fischer looks at things through rose tinted glasses.

Hence why I think his article is shit.
Rose tinted or not, the guys on his list are true legends who have proven themselves to be some of the greatest fighters of all time. Right now Floyd is a great fighter who is not taking on other great fighters. Since he started trucking through the divisions, his career hasn't looked so spectacular.

Sadly for Floyd, there isn't another fighter on a par with him right now in terms of skills, Duran, Leonard and Hearns were all incredibly well schooled fighters, and Hagler was a guy who was a very underrated boxer with a 'get out of my fornicating ring' attitude.

A cash in fight against DLH won't prove a great deal, so he's got to take on the likes of Hatton, Cotto, Margarito,

Sure Mayweather is superb, but using Gatti as a punching bag and beating Judah proves only what we already know, that Mayweather has the best skills around, and can easily beat B level fighters. What we need now is an A grade opponent who can ask questions of Floyd in the way that Castillo did.

If Hatton is A class and Judah is B class, are you 100% sure Hatton would beat Judah then?

Did you see Judah vs Mayweather?

johnswan1 · Post by **johnswan1** » 12 Apr 2006, 11:42

I do think Hatton would beat Judah.

Apart from the second Spinks fight, Judah has always struggled to stay focussed in the second half of his fights. Just like in the Mayweather fight, I think Zab would be very dangerous for the first four rounds or thereabouts. As long as Ricky could survive that, I think he could then smother and wear Judah down to a late stoppage.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Apr 2006, 11:49

lirva33 wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Southpaw Stylist wrote:Doug Fischer looks at things through rose tinted glasses.

Hence why I think his article is shit.
Rose tinted or not, the guys on his list are true legends who have proven themselves to be some of the greatest fighters of all time. Right now Floyd is a great fighter who is not taking on other great fighters. Since he started trucking through the divisions, his career hasn't looked so spectacular.

Sadly for Floyd, there isn't another fighter on a par with him right now in terms of skills, Duran, Leonard and Hearns were all incredibly well schooled fighters, and Hagler was a guy who was a very underrated boxer with a 'get out of my fornicating ring' attitude.

A cash in fight against DLH won't prove a great deal, so he's got to take on the likes of Hatton, Cotto, Margarito,

Sure Mayweather is superb, but using Gatti as a punching bag and beating Judah proves only what we already know, that Mayweather has the best skills around, and can easily beat B level fighters. What we need now is an A grade opponent who can ask questions of Floyd in the way that Castillo did.
If Hatton is A class and Judah is B class, are you 100% sure Hatton would beat Judah then?

Did you see Judah vs Mayweather?

Not yet, but yes, I think Hatton would beat Judah.

BrocktonBlockbuster49 · Post by **BrocktonBlockbuster49** » 12 Apr 2006, 12:06

thanx for the article

T.M.K · Post by **T.M.K** » 13 Apr 2006, 07:42

Hi gents,

I think the article is pretty-fair to be honest. We can only judge careers on certain values, and doing it at the 9-and-a-half-years point seems as good as any..... and i think his overall assessment is pretty good too.

If Mayweather was to be elevated higher i think it would have to be in the form of getting into double-figures of defending a title (not going to happen aftre he started going up in weight - he should have scraped a couple more 130-pounds defences when he was there), or by unifying. The best thing for Mayweather is that Baldomir beats Gatti and then the 2 of them face-off. Mayweather will be the first-ever legit 4-weight WBC champ (Ray Leonard's farcical 175lbs title is spurious) if that happens. He could also dowith perhaps trying to clear-up the 147lbs class and get all 4 belts.

I think we will see Mayweather face ODLH for the WBC 154lbs title, then go back to 147 where he will make a few defences against the best competition he can find, and probably unify the WBC/WBA/IBF titles before retiring in maybe 4 or 5 years time with a unbeaten record of about 45-0. (The main thing to scupper immediate plans will be if Gatti beats Baldomir. I can't see many people clamouring for a rematch)

cheers,

"T.M.K"

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 13 Apr 2006, 07:54

http://www.maxboxing.com/Iole/Iole0413m06.asp

A good article here on precisely why Mayweather should NOT be Dq'ed.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 13 Apr 2006, 15:33

Southpaw Stylist wrote:http://www.maxboxing.com/Iole/Iole0413m06.asp

A good article here on precisely why Mayweather should NOT be Dq'ed.

Not a member, so cannot read the article... But Fightnews also have an article where people are giving their opinions on this subject.

It seems clear that Mayweather entered the ring AFTER Steel called a time out.... Therefore, an automatic DQ is not compulsary - it is then up to the referee's discretion.

As Steel called a time out he didn't drop a bollock, he had the option of DQ'ing or not DQ'ing him - and will not (or shouldn't) face a disciplinary hearing. Had Mayweather intervened without a time out being called, then he would have dropped a bollock by continuing the fight.