Why is Haye's stamina bad?

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 11 Apr 2006, 06:15

Yeah, heard Bob does the runs himself and is still as fit as a flea. God I hate running.

chris s · Post by **chris s** » 11 Apr 2006, 06:16

Bob is a brillant trainer. People forget but what he preaches is the legacy of his dad who passed on his knowledge to Phil Martin.

Manc boxing owes a lot to Bob's dad and Phil.

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 11 Apr 2006, 06:19

knockout wrote:
nickd wrote:
The most popular myth being that situps/abdominal exercises gets rid of more fat around the middle.

my personal favourites are people who dont do any weight training because either

1) "i dont want to end up looking like Arnold Schwarzenegger"
2) "i dont wont too much muscle because when you stop training it will turn to fat"

Totally. I have put on plenty of lean muscle but I'm not much broader than I used to be. My body is about ten times harder than it was though!

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 11 Apr 2006, 06:42

Terence wrote:
Shirow wrote:It's all true. I'm surprised the roadwork myth still hasn't been crushed by popular knowledge.

It's only use is an efficient way of keeping body fat under control. Different people tend to hold fat in different places it's just down to their genetics.

Most guys hold it around their waist some their legs

Why train as middle distance runner for a boxing match it just doesn't make sense. Explosive reps are the way to go. I'd recommend 100M rolling start sprints followed by jog back x10.

This sort of training mimics sparring or regular fights which is what the old time fighters have over today's.
The sprints are really good for you and you feel it with them, they also lessen boredom.

I still advocate roadwork though. Getting up a 6am and running in the cold and wet for even a half hour can be beneficial mentally. Like Hagler said he felt his desire wane when he realised how hard it is to get up and run when you are sleeping in silk sheets. Roadwork of this sort gives you that desire to go through tough times, too many fighters in the future will be brought through on molly-coddling and air conditioned gyms.

Trouble with roadwork is though, that not everyone is cut out for it. It's fine if you're a little bantamweight whose built like Kip Kembe, but if you're a big lump then it's always going to be a struggle. Interval training is surely going to be more beneficial to those who are naturally built for sprints rather than long distance running.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 11 Apr 2006, 09:54

nickd wrote:
Max Molyneux wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:What the hell is 'leg weight?'
Body fat on the legs then.
You cant spot train areas, you just have to look to reduce overall bodyfat. The most popular myth being that situps/abdominal exercises gets rid of more fat around the middle.

The best way to reduce weight/bodyfat is to mix interval cardiovascular exercise with weight training. I weightrain 3 times a week, with 2 or 3 interval exercise sessions and my bodyfat is about 11%. It was about 22% a year ago. But the most important thing is nutrition, without that all the training in the world will not do the trick.

I do weight training as well and I'd probably be a fat bugger without it.

Only looking to mostly be 15st odd and I got someone off at the moment from 16st 7 now 16st 2. It didn't look fat on me but it would mostly go to the legs.

My problem was eating a little too much and eating less has seemed to work at the moment. I'm not one for following a certain diet as long as I have enough of good stuff.

I never look fat because of training just go a little heavy and my weight used to go up and down anyway before I stopped growing.

I tend to skip alot more now though than I used to.

I think sprints in laps are better than roadwork. Roadwork can be quite slow and constant pounding of the ground, depending on the pace of the roadwork can be a pain for the shins.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 11 Apr 2006, 09:59

nickd wrote:
knockout wrote:
nickd wrote:
The most popular myth being that situps/abdominal exercises gets rid of more fat around the middle.

my personal favourites are people who dont do any weight training because either

1) "i dont want to end up looking like Arnold Schwarzenegger"
2) "i dont wont too much muscle because when you stop training it will turn to fat"

Totally. I have put on plenty of lean muscle but I'm not much broader than I used to be. My body is about ten times harder than it was though!

Suprised that some don't think it depends on how you do weight training as well.

Some of whom I've spoke to before hate the lean muscle it gives because there target was to stick to a certain bodyweight and even if there toned and in shape, they've hated it because there past the bodyweight they think they should be.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 11 Apr 2006, 10:02

As for Haye maybe a change of trainer would be better.

Who would you guys reckon would be good?

nickd · Post by **nickd** » 11 Apr 2006, 10:10

Max Molyneux wrote:
nickd wrote:
knockout wrote: my personal favourites are people who dont do any weight training because either

1) "i dont want to end up looking like Arnold Schwarzenegger"
2) "i dont wont too much muscle because when you stop training it will turn to fat"

Totally. I have put on plenty of lean muscle but I'm not much broader than I used to be. My body is about ten times harder than it was though!
Suprised that some don't think it depends on how you do weight training as well.

Some of whom I've spoke to before hate the lean muscle it gives because there target was to stick to a certain bodyweight and even if there toned and in shape, they've hated it because there past the bodyweight they think they should be.

Every 1lb of lean muscle on your body takes about 50 calories a day just to maintain. So in effect the best way to lose bodyfat and weight is to add lean muscle. So you can still lose weight while adding muscle. When my bodyfat was up around 20% (about average for a bloke) I was 12 and a half stone or so - now my bodyfat is about 11% and I am 10 stone 12lbs. So you can lose weight easily while adding lean muscle.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 11 Apr 2006, 10:15

Terence wrote:I think you got me wrong James. I know sprints are the best way to train and it is good to have the variety in terms of running yet I feel that purely for motivational, plus to keep yourself in mind of how hard the sport is, reasons running in the early hours, even for only a few miles, is beneficial mentally. If your fighter balks at the idea of running in the morning you'd have to think about his commitment.

No I get what you are saying. roadwork seems to be as much about doing something you don't want to do, as anything else, it's a test of committment and willpower. It's like when you lift weights, it's easiest to concentrate on the areas where you are strongest and get the easiest gains, rather than focus on the areas where you are weak and it hurts the most. I personally hate doing press ups for instance, as my back muscles aren't strong, and it takes a real effort to force myself to do my three sets which I do a work out.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 11 Apr 2006, 10:43

Yes, I have to say, I couldn't help notice that. Sure, Ricky took a few hard shots in the middle rounds, but that was hardly Barrera v Morales, or Mosley v DLH in there?

Barrera and Morales both still have that warrior ethos, as does Pacquaio, and of course, Corralles and Castillo both, neither man wants to acquiesce in a fight.

Ricky has had a few hard nights, Magee, Thaxton and of course Tszyu, but he's hardly had a punishing career.

It's true that western fighters are mollycoddled compared to the hungry young fighters coming out of SE Asia, the old USSR and African nations and parts of Latin and Central America. These guys know poverty for real, and have a hunger that their more pampered counterparts can only imagine. That's not to say our fighters don't have pride and heart, because they do, but there's a line which someone who is truly hungry will cross that they will never have to, and probably wouldn't if it came to it.

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 13 Apr 2006, 09:39

jeej wrote:Sorry to seem like I'm jumping on the bandwagon, but I too had similar thoughts with regards to him being able to make CW. Ok, he's no short arse, but he doesn't exactly share the same build as Bruno. Moving to HW could be a disaster, even if the competition isnt strong there.

Can you imagine Haye in with Skelton or Williams - He would do well if he lasted 3 rounds - Too big Too powerfull, he is just not big enough for them as was Hide

Arsenal · Post by **Arsenal** » 14 Apr 2006, 15:35

Boxers are on their feet for 36 mins. So why shouldn't they do some long distance running? Its a great general conditioner. For sports specific stuff ou can do pads, bag, sparring etc. The problem I see is that some boxers train for fights. As a pro they should be training all the time. How on earth can they be at 100% and in the best possible shape when over 50% of the time they are losing the weight they're put on. Some boxers walk around a stone or two over their fighting weight. Losing that not only drains their strength but they are not getting fitter or better. They should train all the time and when they go into a training camp they can focus on getting fitter and better and not focus on losing weight. As for the type of running, boxing is a mix of aerobic and anaerobic so doing sprints is not the best way to get fit for boxing. The long distance running will build their aerobic capacity which is vital for recovery. Longer sprints will improve anerobic power. But why run in a straight line? When do you do that in a boxing match? The best way would be to do long runs but incorporate long 3 min increases in pace followed by a min rest. When it comes to the shorter more explosive running do shuttle runs that involve changes in direction, running backwards, ducking etc. I would do 1min - 1.30min intervals to improve the boxers anerobic threshold so that he can sustain long periods of punching. But the best way to train to box is to box!

Sorry for the boring science!

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 14 Apr 2006, 15:49

Terence wrote:Power punchers often have stamina problems, as someone said they load up on every shot. Didn't Holyfield ignore roadwork and how many 12 rounds, hard ones as well, did he do?

Holyfield used to do a lot of punching underwater. M Spinks used to do lots of explosive sprints up the steps in a Football Stadium.

They were all designed to make a guy moving up in weight explosive.

NickD - What was you training regime to lose the weight?

Boxingmad · Post by **Boxingmad** » 14 Apr 2006, 21:21

I'm starting a 12 week weight-training and fitness programme next week calle Body-For-Life. The cardio sessions they particularly recommend are 20 mins of interval training.

http://www.bodyforlife.com
http://www.bfl-uk.com

Haye doesn't like roadwork. Nor do I. I absolutely loathe it. However, that's probably the best way for stamina building, fat loss etc. Mix it up with interval training and you're onto a winner. Never rated Booth as a trainer. Hopefully Anthony Small will see the light soon and move on.

josh fg · Post by **josh fg** » 16 Apr 2006, 12:14

I took up boxing as someone who went to the gym 4 times a week anyhow and one thing that I remember always killed me was fcuking skipping. Anyone know why.

As for Haye he improved a lot from training in the USA which I think is encoraging. but I am becoming less convinced about this HW stuff.

Max Molyneux · Post by **Max Molyneux** » 17 Apr 2006, 09:21

josh fg wrote:I took up boxing as someone who went to the gym 4 times a week anyhow and one thing that I remember always killed me was fcuking skipping. Anyone know why.

As for Haye he improved a lot from training in the USA which I think is encoraging. but I am becoming less convinced about this HW stuff.

Skipping bothers my shoulders mostly.

As for roadwork it depends how my claves feel. When my claves are fine I can do it well.

My calves seem to have a problem though.

Nemesis · Post by **Nemesis** » 08 Mar 2008, 22:55

WildWaylon wrote:Can you imagine Haye in with Skelton or Williams - He would do well if he lasted 3 rounds - Too big Too powerfull, he is just not big enough for them as was Hide

lol?

Lefthookhappy19 · Post by **Lefthookhappy19** » 08 Mar 2008, 23:05

It should be a mix of intervals and long distance running imo. The intervals can't be done more than a few times a week anyhow (if they are being done right). No way in hell can you do sprints day after day. Ross at Rossboxing.com a great trainer (conditioning wise).