-the Joe Bugner thread-

[Caractacus]

Just been watching highlights of Joe's 2nd match with Dante Cane and it seemed like a wild and heated affair. Bedlam in the ring and the audience. Looks like cane and his followers were accusing Bugner of using his nut to cause the cuts...l Joe Bugner had a very hard career with nights and fights like this, long forgotten.

Man,those must have be some big assed nuts !

[evrenb]

Just been watching highlights of Joe's 2nd match with Dante Cane and it seemed like a wild and heated affair. Bedlam in the ring and the audience. Looks like cane and his followers were accusing Bugner of using his nut to cause the cuts...l Joe Bugner had a very hard career with nights and fights like this, long forgotten.

Man,those must have be some big assed nuts !

Yes...quite...

[Kalan]

In retrospect,what was it that he was lacking in his boxing/fighting ability or even his personality
that had prevented him from becoming the(undisputed)Heavyweight Champion of the World during the 1970's?

He lacked power---but so did Tony Tubbs... He lacked skills---but so did George Foreman... He lacked intellect---but so did Leon Spinks... He lacked speed---but so did Joe Frazier... He lacked coordination--- but so did Tommy Morrison... He lacked a defense---but so did Frank Bruno... He lacked consistency, drive, and effort---but so did Tim Witherspoon... He lacked desire---but so did Buster Douglas... He lacked American citizenship---but so did Gerrie Coetzee

A lot of "Heavyweight Champions" of that era lacked a lot of qualities that would have made them better -- but Bugner stood out because he lacked more than most... All the Heavyweights who won World Titles in that era made up for what they lacked with other strong points... Bugner possessed few, if any.

[Caractacus]

But still he looked fairly decent in most of his bouts wouldn't you say ?
I still say it was probably his hair that prevented him from having been a world champion.
(Mop-Top).

[Caractacus]

Can anyone here prove that Joe Bugner came to America in 1969 as he says in so many interviews ?

[Kalan]

I would never say Bugner looked any good in any of his fights.. Bugner had a terrible stance and awful footwork. He couldn't get under a punch. Better to watch Heavyweights like Johnson, Tunney, Louis, Holmes, and Joshua.. They all looked like boxers - balanced, skilled, and smooth, with good styles.

Bugner looked embarrassing against the 9-0 Marvis Frazier.. In his next fight Frazier got taken out in the 1st round by the 44-0 Holmes, who is older than Bugner, but knew what he was doing.. Holmes looked like a real boxer...as opposed to an ungainly giraffe prancing and dancing around like an inept clown.

[Caractacus]

A "Changing of the Guard" (of sorts)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzVpyiWndxo

[Kalan]

A "Changing of the Guard" (of sorts)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzVpyiWndxo

The huge Bugner easily absorbed everything the much smaller Cooper threw at him... But I had Cooper controlling with his shorter reach and more skillful jab.. He was definitely landing the cleaner and better punches on his much larger and younger opponent... I don't see how they gave that fight to Bugner.. That was a travesty.. Bugner was coming up and Cooper was fading out of the picture at that time - and they were trying to build the Bug up.. That's no reason to take a fight that Cooper deserved and give it to the kid.

[Cygnus475]

Even if Bugner had every positive quality imaginable, without a desire to win it wouldn't matter. Terrible quality to have for an athlete.

[Caractacus]

Part One

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jd9Xj2tzVI


Part Two
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BQIcL25jC0

[gp.]

Even if Bugner had every positive quality imaginable, without a desire to win it wouldn't matter. Terrible quality to have for an athlete.

I agree.

I was simply making the point that Bugner had all the tools - physically and technically - to achieve significantly more than he did (although I also think he was, in some ways, badly managed).

Basically Bugner was always a reluctant fighter whose heart was never in boxing - although the death of Ulric Regis may well have had a significant influence on him too.

Joe Bugner was a talented track and field athlete and all-round sportsman in his youth but there were very few sports in which a young man could earn significant amounts of money in those days. For Bugner, boxing was an expedient way of making a good living without having to clock onto work every morning.

It's often said of a boxer that he is prepared to take two punches to give one.

Bugner wasn't prepared to take one to land ten. His prime motivation going into the ring was not to get hit. Very sensible, really, but not an attitude that will make you a champion.

[Cygnus475]

You can't win decisions that way either, especially against the defending champion. Jimmy Young learned this the hard way. You still have to control the pace of the fight, land significant shots and occasionally do something impressive to get the judge's attention. Floyd Mayweather was successful for those reasons in addition to having an incredibly high ring iq and able to adapt to almost any situation.

[Caractacus]

check out this really interesting interview with Joe Bugner from 2013.
when he tells "The King" to "get Stuffed" !

http://www.couriermail.com.au/sport/box ... 6719990031

[Caractacus]

Joe Bugner had said in the interview that he was rushed to the hospital in the middle of the night from internal bleeding,
from kidney punches it seems.How many punches to the left kidney can you count in this clip ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roMCayAuwUw

[Caractacus]

I wonder if the quality of sparring partners that Bugner may have had later may have affected his boxing after 1972?
If it just became stale or even regressed.
In 1970 and 1971,Bugner went to America and sparred with Muhammad Ali,Jimmy Ellis,
Sonny Liston,Joe Frazier and Thad Spencer.
Presumably it was for Quarry's fight with Jack Bodel in 1971l that Bugner had sparred with Jerry Quarry.
Whom were Bugner's sparring partners for his fight with Joe Frazier
and the return match with Muhammad Ali in 1975?

Bugner had fought on the same fight card as Quarry vrs Bodel.
Bugner fought Marc Harns.

[Kalan]

How long does it take Somebody to learn how to box? .... Bug got a really early start and still learned nothing.

The Ron Lyle fight summed up Bugner better than even the the Marvis Frazier fight... Bugner was younger, taller, and bigger than Lyle, but in retreat for the entire fight... Lyle was supposed to be a hard puncher, but a slowpoke who lacked technique and couldn't box well... Before the fight Bug was very confident... He promised to "put a thrashing" on Lyle.

The Bug had a longer reach, but couldn't reach get effective jabs on Ronnie... 3/4ths of his time, Bug spent hopping up and down in his little dance...moving, and feinting... He did very little actual punching... All Lyle had to do was throw more punches than Bugner because he couldn't miss his stationary head and body.

I'll give Bugner credit for one fight... Richard Dunn had some very unkind things to say about Bugner... If you're even worse than the Bug you should probably keep your mouth shut... Bugner was a lot bigger and stronger than punching bag Dunn and promised to beat the holy crap out of him, intent on not letting him last a round... He got his message across.

[Caractacus]

The story was that Bugner had broken a small bone in his right foot in training just after signing the contract and just prior to the fight(with Ron Lyle).
He felt obliged to do it however because of the pressure not to have it canceled,
because of the venue in Las Vegas and for television already had it scheduled for live broadcast..
The cortizone injected into his foot before the fight made it lack any sensation and affected his mobility.

[Kalan]

It didn't matter... Lyle had a bad shoulder and a sprained knee...

What was Bugner's excuse when 9-0 Marvis Frazier (200) beat the crap out highly experienced Bug (237) ??? ....

After all, young Frazier couldn't last a round against Larry Holmes or Mike Tyson before getting hammered out

[Caractacus]

I dunno because he didn't want to hurt him because he was Joe Frazier's son ?

[Caractacus]

I think Bugner did allright considering he had fought this fight with a small broken bone in his right foot.He wasn't able to launch a really big right
like he did on Dino Denis anyway.




Bugner also didnt make any sfor losing to the ring ,
athough lyle seems to make an excuse for
not whupping Bugner's Butt more then he had did.

[Caractacus]

BTW did you hear the ref there give the opening instructions ?
That's what real and regular Americans still sounded like back in the 1960's and 70's.
Today they sound like regular metro-sexuals from no place in particular.
The ref is obviously from the same American generation as this dude here.

[Kalan]

I think Bugner did allright considering he had fought this fight with a small broken bone in his right foot.He wasn't able to launch a really big right
like he did on Dino Denis anyway.




Bugner also didnt make any sfor losing to the ring ,
athough lyle seems to make an excuse for
not whupping Bugner's Butt more then he had did

Right... Dino Denis -- who is Bugner's speed... Bugner always has an excuse...

He lost to Ali because it was so cold he had to wear gloves...

[funso banjo baby]

Bugner was a master defensive boxer

his wasn't a particularly hard puncher.

[Kalan]

Bugner was a master defensive boxer

Is that a joke????

Bugner had an immobile head and couldn't slip punches well.... He didn't have a lot of musculature or definition on his abs, obliques, and lower back - so he didn't move well or quickly at the waist - and his butt, hinge, and upper thigh areas were weak so he didn't duck or roll punches well either... He was really soft and his stance was terrible... He was Corrie Sanders without the speed, punching power, or southpaw trickery... I don't know what his deal was... Maybe he had horrible coaching or he wasn't motivated.

[Caractacus]

btw did you know that this month marks the 50th anniversaryof Joe Bugner's professional Boxing debut ?
(December.20.1967)
He was knocked out by Paul Brown at the Hilton Hotel in Mayfair London (England)
Bugner claimed he lost his concentration because he was star struck from seeing his
movie idols in the ring audeience such as Stanley Baker.