Joe Calzaghe - 8th July

fist · Post by **fist** » 11 Apr 2006, 21:10

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/4899386.stm

So who's it gunna be next....

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 12 Apr 2006, 04:18

i like the idea of a fight with Wright or Taylor. It's not unexpected. SN have a pretty conservative approach, in that they want to keep what they have (i.e. the s/m titles). and it is sensible to make a big fight vs someone known in America, who is smaller than him.

TerribleTerry · Post by **TerribleTerry** » 12 Apr 2006, 06:10

Terence wrote:once he's beaten Wright by TKO.

thats a big ask right there!

do you reckon that Taylor can pierce the legendary Winky defence sufficiently to stop him?.. I guess you do.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 12 Apr 2006, 06:21

I think Taylor can hit WW's arms enough to impress the judges in Taylor country. I have a feeling that Wright will outbox him, then go up to super middleweight to challenge Calzaghe. What a good couple of fights those would be

Deserter · Post by **Deserter** » 12 Apr 2006, 06:30

viciousmaussa wrote:I have a feeling that Wright will outbox him, then go up to super middleweight to challenge Calzaghe.

I think that Birmingham will be extremely reluctant to let Winky face Joe after seeing what Calzaghe did to his stablemate. Joe's naturally bigger size and fantastic handspeed would be a nightmare for Wright IMO.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Apr 2006, 07:03

Terence wrote:I could end up looking a right spanner here but I think Taylor was brought down a bit by Hopkins who can make anyone look bad. Pre-Hopkins Taylor was a good puncher and had underrated movement. To beat Wright I don't think you can stand there, as you say you'll just hit his arms, you need to move to the side and drive shots through as he cannot guard to the front and to the side at the same time. Wright is not the greatest mover and I think Taylor can put the shots in around the guard and they will be fast and hard. I'm a southpaw myself and a good orthodox jab when thrown with speed and doubled up is a pain to counter unless yo pet punch is your own straight-left and I think Wright neglects this shot, Taylor should do this (move, jab, double-jab) and do it well. I think Taylor will slam the shots home and at some point will wobble or floor Wright and go in with a fast handed follow-up, Wright will put up his shield yet cannot punch when it is right up and I just feel that a ref will have no choice but to step in.

On the other hand Wright is one of my faves over the last 10 years and you cannot write him off. I just think that this time he has bitten off more than he can chew. Yet Taylor needs to get out of middle as he is far too big and is going to fade with every fight and every round. It is an interesting fight, one we will not get to see live.

Saying that my predictions have been crap this year.

Terrence, once again we are in agreement. I think that Taylor has the size stregth and speed to make it hard for Winky. People forget that Winky is not unbeatable, Harry Simon and Vargas, the two best names on his ledger (forget Trinidad who was well past his sell by date mentally), and both men kept Wright negative long enough to take the decision.

I don't think Taylor will be intimidated by Wright, unlike Hopkins, Taylor doesn't have that mean streak running through him, and because of that I think Taylor will not fear letting his hands go. Taylor is a very big middleweight, and I think his physical attributes will allow him to overcome Winky.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 12 Apr 2006, 07:16

Terence wrote:I could end up looking a right spanner here but I think Taylor was brought down a bit by Hopkins who can make anyone look bad. Pre-Hopkins Taylor was a good puncher and had underrated movement. To beat Wright I don't think you can stand there, as you say you'll just hit his arms, you need to move to the side and drive shots through as he cannot guard to the front and to the side at the same time. Wright is not the greatest mover and I think Taylor can put the shots in around the guard and they will be fast and hard. I'm a southpaw myself and a good orthodox jab when thrown with speed and doubled up is a pain to counter unless yo pet punch is your own straight-left and I think Wright neglects this shot, Taylor should do this (move, jab, double-jab) and do it well. I think Taylor will slam the shots home and at some point will wobble or floor Wright and go in with a fast handed follow-up, Wright will put up his shield yet cannot punch when it is right up and I just feel that a ref will have no choice but to step in.

On the other hand Wright is one of my faves over the last 10 years and you cannot write him off. I just think that this time he has bitten off more than he can chew. Yet Taylor needs to get out of middle as he is far too big and is going to fade with every fight and every round. It is an interesting fight, one we will not get to see live.

Saying that my predictions have been crap this year.

Taylor's speed and power will definitely be something new for WW. But this won't be like fighting Raul Marquez. We have to wonder whether all the easy wins over shot junior middles have exaggerated his worth. He certainly is a specimen. But Winky can grind out tough fights. Can Taylor, who was looking hurt late in both Hopkins fights?

If Taylor can set up his right uppercut, that's the punch he needs to jolt through Winky's guard. I noticed vs Marquez, Taylor actually used a very good double right - sting him with the right uppercut, and then shoot a straight right straight after. then spin to the left and start again...With his speed it's an effective move. I have my doubts about Taylor's jab. Vs anyone else (Hopkins notwithstanding), Taylor's jab will work nicely. That's one reason why I think the right will be a key to Taylor's strategy

btw, I had Winky beating Simon.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 12 Apr 2006, 07:48

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Terrence, once again we are in agreement. I think that Taylor has the size stregth and speed to make it hard for Winky. People forget that Winky is not unbeatable, Harry Simon and Vargas, the two best names on his ledger (forget Trinidad who was well past his sell by date mentally), and both men kept Wright negative long enough to take the decision.

I don't think Taylor will be intimidated by Wright, unlike Hopkins, Taylor doesn't have that mean streak running through him, and because of that I think Taylor will not fear letting his hands go. Taylor is a very big middleweight, and I think his physical attributes will allow him to overcome Winky.

Not saying I don't agree with your final assessment, as I haven't made up my mind yet, but I'm not sure your arguements regarding Winky's opposition is quite correct.

You are very quick to dismiss Trinidad as shot, what evidence do you have of this? He had just come off arguably a career best performance/win - yet according to you was "Well past it mentally". Not sure, how you can make that judgement. I think the fact that I don't think ANYONE on this forum (I could be wrong) predicted a Wright win is indicative of the Trinidad performance vs Mayorga. Also, he stated after the Wright fight that he wanted to continue, but said he would only work with his father and it is his father who refused to train him.

I still expect to see Tito in the ring again.

As for Vargas and Simon being Wrights best opponents, what about Mosley? Didn't he just beat Vargas - sure Vargas isn't the same fighter as before, but neither is Mosley.

Also, I do think something was up with Wright the night he lost to Simon, whether it was he underestimated him or something - but he wasn't "right". I've seen lots of Wright in action and he was very subdued, reminded me abit of his performance last time out - when he fought with a virus.

KO Artist · Post by **KO Artist** » 12 Apr 2006, 07:53

jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Terence wrote:I could end up looking a right spanner here but I think Taylor was brought down a bit by Hopkins who can make anyone look bad. Pre-Hopkins Taylor was a good puncher and had underrated movement. To beat Wright I don't think you can stand there, as you say you'll just hit his arms, you need to move to the side and drive shots through as he cannot guard to the front and to the side at the same time. Wright is not the greatest mover and I think Taylor can put the shots in around the guard and they will be fast and hard. I'm a southpaw myself and a good orthodox jab when thrown with speed and doubled up is a pain to counter unless yo pet punch is your own straight-left and I think Wright neglects this shot, Taylor should do this (move, jab, double-jab) and do it well. I think Taylor will slam the shots home and at some point will wobble or floor Wright and go in with a fast handed follow-up, Wright will put up his shield yet cannot punch when it is right up and I just feel that a ref will have no choice but to step in.

On the other hand Wright is one of my faves over the last 10 years and you cannot write him off. I just think that this time he has bitten off more than he can chew. Yet Taylor needs to get out of middle as he is far too big and is going to fade with every fight and every round. It is an interesting fight, one we will not get to see live.

Saying that my predictions have been crap this year.
Terrence, once again we are in agreement. I think that Taylor has the size stregth and speed to make it hard for Winky. People forget that Winky is not unbeatable, Harry Simon and Vargas, the two best names on his ledger (forget Trinidad who was well past his sell by date mentally), and both men kept Wright negative long enough to take the decision.

I don't think Taylor will be intimidated by Wright, unlike Hopkins, Taylor doesn't have that mean streak running through him, and because of that I think Taylor will not fear letting his hands go. Taylor is a very big middleweight, and I think his physical attributes will allow him to overcome Winky.

I agree with you James. Wright is very competent, technically. But I reckon Taylor will get the better of him.

For me Wright is somewhat overrated.

I hope Taylor wins. Boxing needs young champions.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 12 Apr 2006, 08:08

Terence, it needs saying that Taylor's jab hasn't been working so well - in his last 3 fights. If anyone's jab is going to get there first it's WW's - he's spent a whole career, in top company, doing this. It's fornicating hard jabbing a southpaw.

Taylor is fast and strong, but he's not so hard to read. He has that weird sideways lean that Roy Jones had, but with Jones you could never see where the next shot was coming from and he was quite bewildering. Taylor's not like this. With Taylor he gives off a lot of nervous tics from this stance, reminding me a bit of Olrando Canizales. Taylor falls for a lot of feints also.

Winky won't hurt Taylor, but he's been there before in the hard fights and can tough it out. What will hurt Winky is that he doesn't have a heck of a lot outside the jab - however brilliant it may be. His left isn't the most accurate punch, nor is it particularly hard.

I give WW props for his performances vs Simon, Vargas, Mosley and Tito. WW was fucked from not training at the altitude, yet he still picked most of Harry's shots off and landed enough clean jabs to sneak it - on my card. No shame losing a tight fight to Vargas, who showed how to drive combis thru WW's guard. Mosley was still well regarded when WW got to him. And Tito had beaten the crap out of Mayorga and was refreshed from the post Hopkins layoff.

jamesmcdonnell · Post by **jamesmcdonnell** » 12 Apr 2006, 08:10

stujones wrote:
jamesmcdonnell wrote:
Terrence, once again we are in agreement. I think that Taylor has the size stregth and speed to make it hard for Winky. People forget that Winky is not unbeatable, Harry Simon and Vargas, the two best names on his ledger (forget Trinidad who was well past his sell by date mentally), and both men kept Wright negative long enough to take the decision.

I don't think Taylor will be intimidated by Wright, unlike Hopkins, Taylor doesn't have that mean streak running through him, and because of that I think Taylor will not fear letting his hands go. Taylor is a very big middleweight, and I think his physical attributes will allow him to overcome Winky.
Not saying I don't agree with your final assessment, as I haven't made up my mind yet, but I'm not sure your arguements regarding Winky's opposition is quite correct.

You are very quick to dismiss Trinidad as shot, what evidence do you have of this? He had just come off arguably a career best performance/win - yet according to you was "Well past it mentally". Not sure, how you can make that judgement. I think the fact that I don't think ANYONE on this forum (I could be wrong) predicted a Wright win is indicative of the Trinidad performance vs Mayorga. Also, he stated after the Wright fight that he wanted to continue, but said he would only work with his father and it is his father who refused to train him.

I still expect to see Tito in the ring again.

As for Vargas and Simon being Wrights best opponents, what about Mosley? Didn't he just beat Vargas - sure Vargas isn't the same fighter as before, but neither is Mosley.

Also, I do think something was up with Wright the night he lost to Simon, whether it was he underestimated him or something - but he wasn't "right". I've seen lots of Wright in action and he was very subdued, reminded me abit of his performance last time out - when he fought with a virus.

Mentally Trinidad was not at the races, he came into the fight no gameplan at all and fought like complete shit.

Simon and Vargas were young hungry fighters at the top of their game when Winky fought them.

Mosley is well past his sell by date and should never have been fighting at Light Middle, he hasn't looked impressive since losing to Forrest the 1st time, he is still able to compete at top level, but is no longer an elite fighter.

stujones · Post by **stujones** » 12 Apr 2006, 08:19

Trindad was MADE to fight completely shit by Wright, just as Gatti was made to fight shit by Mayweather... couldn't handle the style.

Why would Trinidad not be at the races, he was experienced fighter who knew about big fight pressure. It was a big fight with the promise of bigger fights to come with a win. He didn't have any problem making the weight and looked in great shape.

Yes, Wright didn't do anything spectacular to make him look shit... but then neither did Hopkins and the Wright performance made me realise just why Trinidad and Quartey never got it on as Welterweights.... Quartey would have done a similar job.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 12 Apr 2006, 08:23

Winky's jab worked so well vs Trinidad that Tito was shit scared to get left left foot outside Winky's right foot. By going over to WW's right side, you risk eating even more jabs. Notably, Winky is naturally right handed, albeit fighting in the southpaw stance. Trinidad was between a rock and a hard place. Also, WW was fuckin_g strong vs Trinidad. That extra weight serves him well. (I'll ignore the Soliman fight, WW, looking haggard, might have beeen weakened from being ill that night)

If WW beats Taylor, it's cos Taylor is too young, too undeserving (i.e. not really besting Hopkins) (joking)

Southpaw Stylist · Post by **Southpaw Stylist** » 12 Apr 2006, 10:43

I don't rate Taylor as a smart fighter.

We will see him looking confused when he can't land and he will just resort to hitting pure gloves.

The way to beat winky is constant pressure, and I can't see Taylor applying that.

WildWaylon · Post by **WildWaylon** » 13 Apr 2006, 18:45

Southpaw Stylist wrote:I don't rate Taylor as a smart fighter.

We will see him looking confused when he can't land and he will just resort to hitting pure gloves.

The way to beat winky is constant pressure, and I can't see Taylor applying that.

Got to agree, WW will be too much for Taylor and a points win or very late stoppage seems likely to me

jeej · Post by **jeej** » 13 Apr 2006, 18:52

I've never dreamt about boxing before, but last night I dreamt Calzaghe was fighting. I dont know who the opponent was, but everyone expected Joe to win. Anyway, he took such a hiding, it was horrible! Then the opponent smashed him across the ring and he fell to the floor, was really vivid image of Joe using the ropes to try pull himself up off the floor. Was pretty much all I can remember, but it was just horrible!

DG. · Post by **DG.** » 13 Apr 2006, 19:14

jeej wrote:I've never dreamt about boxing before, but last night I dreamt Calzaghe was fighting. I dont know who the opponent was, but everyone expected Joe to win. Anyway, he took such a hiding, it was horrible! Then the opponent smashed him across the ring and he fell to the floor, was really vivid image of Joe using the ropes to try pull himself up off the floor. Was pretty much all I can remember, but it was just horrible!

That will never happen!

jeej · Post by **jeej** » 13 Apr 2006, 19:15

DG. wrote:
jeej wrote:I've never dreamt about boxing before, but last night I dreamt Calzaghe was fighting. I dont know who the opponent was, but everyone expected Joe to win. Anyway, he took such a hiding, it was horrible! Then the opponent smashed him across the ring and he fell to the floor, was really vivid image of Joe using the ropes to try pull himself up off the floor. Was pretty much all I can remember, but it was just horrible!

That will never happen!

I hope not, he got absolutely battered. Made his defeat of Lacy look like a tickling contest in comparison.

Autobarn · Post by **Autobarn** » 14 Apr 2006, 04:11

wildwaylon wrote:
Southpaw Stylist wrote:I don't rate Taylor as a smart fighter.

We will see him looking confused when he can't land and he will just resort to hitting pure gloves.

The way to beat winky is constant pressure, and I can't see Taylor applying that.
Got to agree, WW will be too much for Taylor and a points win or very late stoppage seems likely to me

Winky's seen it all before. Taylor's in another fight where the risk is that he MIGHT look awful. I like Wright to win a close decision, as he makes those overhyped, flawed HBO darlings look ordinary. I just hope Taylor doesn't get too much credit for missing his jabs and pounding arms.

Taylor has a lot to prove, like the young James Toney, who kept getting lucky decisions at 160-lbs. So I think he'll fight with some real intensity. I don't think that many ppl have bought into Taylor, and he has a lot to do if he wants to be the big time PPV fighter that HBO want him to be.

Props to Taylor for taking another very hard fight, but unlike Hopkins, the master boxer he faces next can still let his punches go freely. That means Taylor will have a better chance to land his own shots, it should make it a very interesting fight, but i'm guessing that like Mosley (twice), Tito and Vargas (to an extent), he will regret fighting Wright

I've beeen watching Winky since his first fight with Bronco Mckart, where he was landing like 50 jabs a round. and i've been a big fan from the times he went to England and put on those masterclasses - especially vs the very promising Dodson. So if there's any fighter I want to see do well it's WW. He's done f_ucking well to make it to the very top of the game